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  1. #61
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
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    Note to self: Do not enter this thread again until I'm done reading.

  2. #62
    The Patient Alusen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    Note to self: Do not enter this thread again until I'm done reading.
    Yup, enjoy the book everyone!

  3. #63
    Stood in the Fire
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    About one of Chekhov's many munitions on display: Do we ever get to see the 6 and 66 link in action? Jordan set it up so that the most channelers possible in a link was also the number of the beast in christian lore. And he calls the hero of the story the "dragon". I've been waiting for 13 books to see if anyone ever puts together a maximized circle of magic in the final scene(s). I'm still on the fence about buying the book, since my favorite character, Mat, seems to have died with Jordan. So, any speed readers out there, please let me know about this missing plot device. Does it make an appearance? Would like to know if it's worth it just for this.

  4. #64
    High Overlord Sanavi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    Note to self: Do not enter this thread again until I'm done reading.
    Yeah, I'm pretty much AFKing from anything on the Interwebz starting today that might ruin the book for me. Should be arriving in the mail soon, tracking it!

    So ready to see the endgame!

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Parrin View Post
    About one of Chekhov's many munitions on display: Do we ever get to see the 6 and 66 link in action? Jordan set it up so that the most channelers possible in a link was also the number of the beast in christian lore. And he calls the hero of the story the "dragon". I've been waiting for 13 books to see if anyone ever puts together a maximized circle of magic in the final scene(s). I'm still on the fence about buying the book, since my favorite character, Mat, seems to have died with Jordan. So, any speed readers out there, please let me know about this missing plot device. Does it make an appearance? Would like to know if it's worth it just for this.
    You are kidding right? Brandon did a great job with Mat in Towers of Midnight, though it takes up until chapter 11 before he makes his return in AMoL, but there is so much foundation required as part of Tarmon' Gaidon as well as the Black Tower events that needs to be there, so I can understand why it was written as it is. The timelines seem to be a little jumbled early on, and is it just me or does Rand seem to imply that he would be battling the Dark One right after the meeting at FoM? Yet he takes a few days to finally go to battle as he has other things to take care of.

    You also have to bear in mind that AMoL is written from numerous perspectives and there are loads of perspective swaps even in some chapters, where you have 3 or 4 different perspectives changing just because they all tie in together and relate so much to the whole war. So don't expect this one to be like the others, because it's quite unique in it's writing and formation.
    Last edited by Rennadrel; 2013-01-09 at 03:38 AM.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    You are kidding right? Brandon did a great job with Mat in Towers of Midnight, though it takes up until chapter 11 before he makes his return in AMoL, but there is so much foundation required as part of Tarmon' Gaidon as well as the Black Tower events that needs to be there, so I can understand why it was written as it is. The timelines seem to be a little jumbled early on, and is it just me or does Rand seem to imply that he would be battling the Dark One right after the meeting at FoM? Yet he takes a few days to finally go to battle as he has other things to take care of.

    You also have to bear in mind that AMoL is written from numerous perspectives and there are loads of perspective swaps even in some chapters, where you have 3 or 4 different perspectives changing just because they all tie in together and relate so much to the whole war. So don't expect this one to be like the others, because it's quite unique in it's writing and formation.
    A lot of Mat in Towers was written by Jordan (the entire rescue scene in particular), and it's blindingly apparent wherever Sanderson is writing Mat because he really doesn't do it well. Mat is conspicuous by his absence a lot (especially if you take all of Sanderson's books as a whole), which makes me think Sanderson himself is aware of his problems with Mat (he has admitted to feeling much more empathy with Perrin, who has not coincidentally gotten far more attention and build up than Mat in the final books).

    No offence to Sanderson meant, I think he's done a decent job overall given the task he had. Realistically he couldn't possibly equal Jordan on his character writing on every character (and his pacing is obviously far better than Jordan's). Mat was clearly one of Jordan's favourite characters (given Jordan's original intention to focus the post WoT series on Mat I'd say favourite full stop), and he clearly just enjoyed writing him so much more than Sanderson did, there's no point pretending Sanderson's Mat is even close to Jordan's. That kind of thing is bound to happen under the circumstances though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Parrin View Post
    About one of Chekhov's many munitions on display: Do we ever get to see the 6 and 66 link in action? Jordan set it up so that the most channelers possible in a link was also the number of the beast in christian lore. And he calls the hero of the story the "dragon". I've been waiting for 13 books to see if anyone ever puts together a maximized circle of magic in the final scene(s). I'm still on the fence about buying the book, since my favorite character, Mat, seems to have died with Jordan. So, any speed readers out there, please let me know about this missing plot device. Does it make an appearance? Would like to know if it's worth it just for this.
    Spoilers I haven't completely finished yet, but full circles *have* been used in the parts I've read, as have the 13x13 circles that have repeatedly been hinted at.

    It is worth reading if you've read this far. Surely you're dying to know how it ends?
    Last edited by Windfury; 2013-01-09 at 08:41 AM. Reason: typos

  7. #67
    The book simply didn't live up to expectations. Some plot points simply didn't make sense, some weren't done well at all. If I haven't have spent like 14 years of my life reading them all, I doubt I would have finished the book.

  8. #68
    Scarab Lord AceofHarts's Avatar
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    Spoilers ahead:
    Rand Assumes Moridins body in the end, relatively unsuprising.
    the 4 great generals fall under compulsion, as does Perrin, VERY SUPRISING
    Fain has a relatively MINOR role, Suprising
    Taim as a forsaken, unsuprising, suprising though, was that i don't think he ever died, correct me if im wrong.
    the lack of an "afterwords" unsuprising but still annoying. come on, seriously, which of the girls follows him, where do they go?
    Egwene dies in the final battle, SHOCKED, i was thoroughly suprisded there. Cadsuane is the new Amyrlin...?
    Moiraine, whatever became of her and Thom after the end? guess this could be part of the "afterwords".
    Bashere, Siuan, Gareth, Gawyn, Egwene (i know, been there done that), Alanna, Angelmar all dead honestly i expected heavy casualties, but most of those were rather suprising.
    did i mention the lack of a "what happens afterwords?" being annoying?
    Rand stated that he tried to kill him, nothing states that he tried to seal him away, but Moghedien in the end states that the Dark One was Sealed away. which the hell is it? sealed or killed?
    and before you BLOODY ASK, yes, i finished the book, in just shy 17.5 hours. and i took roughly 3-4 hours of a break. so. 900 pages in anywhere from 13.5-14.5 hours.
    Last edited by AceofHarts; 2013-01-09 at 08:43 AM.

  9. #69
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcelos11 View Post
    Taim as a forsaken, unsuprising, suprising though, was that i don't think he ever died, correct me if im wrong.
    Didn't Egwene kill him with that crystal thing?

    Rand stated that he tried to kill him, nothing states that he tried to seal him away, but Moghedien in the end states that the Dark One was Sealed away. which the hell is it? sealed or killed?
    Re-read that part. Rand changed his mind at the last moment, because of one of the 'possibilities' he saw during the battle. When he held the Dark One, he could see what was truth and what was lie. He then resealed the Dark One using pure saidin and saidar

  10. #70
    I am at chapter 20, so far so good. Not surprised that Sharan's appared in Kandor, so I guess that is where Demandred was involved? Kinda hard to read as quickly when you have to work :P

  11. #71
    Demandred ruled Shara.

    Incidentally the spoiler tags are [ spoiler]text you want hidden here[ /spoiler] (remove the spaces). It's a little better hidden than just white text for people

  12. #72
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
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    Did anyone else sometimes get confused whenever they called Galad by his last name? It looks so similar to Demandred.

  13. #73
    Scarab Lord AceofHarts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    Did anyone else sometimes get confused whenever they called Galad by his last name? It looks so similar to Demandred.
    yeah.

    and hows that for a shovel full of crap in the face of the Whitecloaks.
    the whitecloaks hate channelers with a passion (Calling them darkfriends).
    the LCC of the whitecloaks (Galad) is a Half Sister to one of the most powerful aes sedai in the world, and the half brother to the dragon reborn...oh the irony...

  14. #74
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    After Demandred defeated Gawyn and Galad, I was expecting his final match to be against Mat, especially since he suspected Mat was Lews Therin in disguise. I was thinking Mat would say something like "You know those two guys that fought you before? Last year I kicked both their asses at the same time, while sick, without getting touched."

  15. #75
    Scarab Lord AceofHarts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    After Demandred defeated Gawyn and Galad, I was expecting his final match to be against Mat, especially since he suspected Mat was Lews Therin in disguise. I was thinking Mat would say something like "You know those two guys that fought you before? Last year I kicked both their asses at the same time, while sick, without getting touched."
    i was honestly suprised by who died in the last battle. of all the Two Rivers 5 i was hoping Nynaeve would die.

    heres food for thought and i wonder if someone can answer the question for me:
    when exactly did Mazrim Taim side with the shadow? before he came to Caemlyn to meet rand? after? when did this occur?

    more food for thought
    Melaine has blonde hair and is getting ready to give birth to her babies as the last battle starts (someone says shed soon be giving birth). at the end of hte last battle Birgitte in hero form tells Elayne that she is going to be born into the world. Could Melaine be giving birth to Birgitte?
    Last edited by AceofHarts; 2013-01-10 at 01:46 PM.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcelos11 View Post
    heres food for thought and i wonder if someone can answer the question for me:
    when exactly did Mazrim Taim side with the shadow? before he came to Caemlyn to meet rand? after? when did this occur?
    I'm not sure if that needs a spoiler mark, since we've know his side since Book 9 I believe. I'd say before, considering how long he lasted without going mad. Wasn't it 15 years or so? And he doesn't seem like the type who'd try to avoid using the Power.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-10 at 05:53 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by marcelos11 View Post
    i was honestly suprised by who died in the last battle. of all the Two Rivers 5 i was hoping Nynaeve would die.
    I thought Nynaeve was doomed the moment Lan 'died'. There was a bit of precedent in the book that if an Aes Sedai or a Warder died, the other would soon follow, regardless of how important they were. Then Lan got back up.

    There was also a couple parts where I thought Mat was fucked. First when Olver was stuck in the crevice with the Horn, I figured Mat would die right before Olver blew it. And then there was that part with Padan Fain.


    ---------- Post added 2013-01-10 at 05:56 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by marcelos11 View Post
    more food for thought
    Melaine has blonde hair and is getting ready to give birth to her babies as the last battle starts (someone says shed soon be giving birth). at the end of hte last battle Birgitte in hero form tells Elayne that she is going to be born into the world. Could Melaine be giving birth to Birgitte?
    Hadn't thought of that. I doubt we'll ever have an answer.

  17. #77
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    I'm curious about how Seanchan(sp) deals turn out. What is their role(if they got any), how to win them over etc.

    Holy shit spoilers galore. I'll stay out of this thread for now. ;P
    The nerve is called the "nerve of awareness". You cant dissect it. Its a current that runs up the center of your spine. I dont know if any of you have sat down, crossed your legs, smoked DMT, and watch what happens... but what happens to me is this big thing goes RRRRRRRRRAAAAAWWW! up my spine and flashes in my brain... well apparently thats whats going to happen if I do this stuff...

  18. #78
    Scarab Lord AceofHarts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    I'm not sure if that needs a spoiler mark, since we've know his side since Book 9 I believe. I'd say before, considering how long he lasted without going mad. Wasn't it 15 years or so? And he doesn't seem like the type who'd try to avoid using the Power.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-10 at 05:53 AM ----------



    I thought Nynaeve was doomed the moment Lan 'died'. There was a bit of precedent in the book that if an Aes Sedai or a Warder died, the other would soon follow, regardless of how important they were. Then Lan got back up.

    There was also a couple parts where I thought Mat was fucked. First when Olver was stuck in the crevice with the Horn, I figured Mat would die right before Olver blew it. And then there was that part with Padan Fain.


    ---------- Post added 2013-01-10 at 05:56 AM ----------



    Hadn't thought of that. I doubt we'll ever have an answer.
    his side was SPECULATED and hinted at best since book 9.
    honestly i completely forgot about Mat dieing in FoH because the Balefire reversed it, was completely suprised that he was no longer bound as the horn sounder. the whole Olver blowing the horn was a HUGE Shock.

    as for that last bit, thats what annoys me. all the little stuff left unresolved.
    does Mat go with Tuon? what happens with the Seanchan after? do they keep there deal?
    who was the "Nakomi" that Aviendha met in the blight?
    how do they work out who follows rand/moridin after he "dies" for the 3 women when Elayne is a bloody queen and cant drop off the face of the earth, and Aviendha can't really dissapear without every bloody aiel noticing. Min is another story. where does he actually end up going?
    does Rodel become king of Arad Doman? does Faile become Queen of Saldea? (Tenobia and her father/mother are dead, that means shes up)
    what happens between Tuon and Hawkwing when he goes to see her? how does the whole Suldam thing resolve?
    do they rebuild caemlyn and every other city that got sacked or make new cities and capitals?

    seriously. so many unanswered questions that are seriously dissapointing. and im half asleep or i could throw out more.

  19. #79
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcelos11 View Post
    as for that last bit, thats what annoys me. all the little stuff left unresolved.
    does Mat go with Tuon? what happens with the Seanchan after? do they keep there deal?
    who was the "Nakomi" that Aviendha met in the blight?
    how do they work out who follows rand/moridin after he "dies" for the 3 women when Elayne is a bloody queen and cant drop off the face of the earth, and Aviendha can't really dissapear without every bloody aiel noticing. Min is another story. where does he actually end up going?
    does Rodel become king of Arad Doman? does Faile become Queen of Saldea? (Tenobia and her father/mother are dead, that means shes up)
    what happens between Tuon and Hawkwing when he goes to see her? how does the whole Suldam thing resolve?
    do they rebuild caemlyn and every other city that got sacked or make new cities and capitals?

    seriously. so many unanswered questions that are seriously dissapointing. and im half asleep or i could throw out more.
    I heard this a while ago, so I don't remember how credible the source is. Apparently, Robert Jordan was going to write three separate books set in the WoT universe. The first was New Spring, which was about Moiraine and Lan starting the hunt for the Dragon. The second book was supposedly about Mat and Tuon, set several years after the Last Battle. Maybe a decade or so later. If such a book existed, it would likely answer quite a few of your questions.

    This part here is my speculation

    Perrin made Tam the Steward of Two Rivers before going into the wolf dream. For that reason, I think Faile and Perrin become the rulers of Saldea, and Tam remains Lord in Two Rivers until Perrin has two heirs, one for Saldea, one for Two Rivers.

    I doubt any of the woman would be able to follow Rand, but I suspect they know when he's in the area and make a point of meeting up with him. I'm curious about what happens to Min, since she was away from the Seanchan at the end of the book, but I bet Tuon wants her Doomseer back.

  20. #80
    Scarab Lord AceofHarts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    I heard this a while ago, so I don't remember how credible the source is. Apparently, Robert Jordan was going to write three separate books set in the WoT universe. The first was New Spring, which was about Moiraine and Lan starting the hunt for the Dragon. The second book was supposedly about Mat and Tuon, set several years after the Last Battle. Maybe a decade or so later. If such a book existed, it would likely answer quite a few of your questions.

    This part here is my speculation

    Perrin made Tam the Steward of Two Rivers before going into the wolf dream. For that reason, I think Faile and Perrin become the rulers of Saldea, and Tam remains Lord in Two Rivers until Perrin has two heirs, one for Saldea, one for Two Rivers.

    I doubt any of the woman would be able to follow Rand, but I suspect they know when he's in the area and make a point of meeting up with him. I'm curious about what happens to Min, since she was away from the Seanchan at the end of the book, but I bet Tuon wants her Doomseer back.
    iirc i remember reading something that implied that the bond was still active with rand/moridin so it should be FAIRLY easy for them to find him.

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