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  1. #81
    The Patient Alusen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcelos11 View Post
    iirc i remember reading something that implied that the bond was still active with rand/moridin so it should be FAIRLY easy for them to find him.
    THe bond is still active as can be seen at the end of the book when its Min's PoV

    After finishing the book, I cannot say I was upset at how it ended. Could it have been better? Sure, but that is true for all books. The only things that really upset me were:

    Fain's lack of involvement besides a very short chapter
    The ending could have been another chapter, IMO as Sanderson I feel was rushed to get the ending out and 1 more chapter would have made the ending less rushed and more explained instead of just speculations of what will happen to most characters

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by marcelos11 View Post
    iirc i remember reading something that implied that the bond was still active with rand/moridin so it should be FAIRLY easy for them to find him.
    I think the part that implies it does so very, very strongly. If you recall, in the final part from Rand's point of view, he can tell that all three are looking away from the fire and looking directly at him - they absolutely know where he is, so the bond is still very much there. I did find their overall lack of sadness to be weird though...if, as they mention, they are supposed to make sure that the world thinks Rand is truly dead, acting rather nonchalantly (at least for Min and Elayne - Aviendha's reaction as an Aiel can pass for being different) around those that knew about their relationship toward Rand seems like exactly the wrong way to convince the world. Minor loose end, though.

    I did like how it all ended though, what with some things being left unsaid or not shown, but with enough momentum from the overall story that I can still guess at the general trend, and sort of imagine the "what's next" on my own. Would really loved to have seen the conversation between Artur Hawkwing and Tuon though, but I'm glad the incoming reality check for them is implied when Mat asks Hawkwing to talk to them.

    There's one other thing I'd love to know more about. Rand no longer has the ability to channel the one power or the true power...and yet is able to light his pipe by merely thinking about it being lit. Residue of his ta'veren nature, the kind displayed when he was countering the Dark One's influence and did things like growing the massive trees earlier in the book? Permanent aspect of it? Wonder if we'll ever know.

  3. #83
    My main disappointment with the book was Fain. I was expecting a huge fight between him, Rand and Moridin.
    Perrin being under compulsion took me completely by surprise at the end there, along with the great captains early in the book. Those parts had me over edge, very nice touch.

  4. #84
    Scarab Lord AceofHarts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Affixiation View Post
    My main disappointment with the book was Fain. I was expecting a huge fight between him, Rand and Moridin.
    Perrin being under compulsion took me completely by surprise at the end there, along with the great captains early in the book. Those parts had me over edge, very nice touch.
    i kind of expected SOMETHING to happen to the great captains. otherwise what was the point of Matrim having the brains of all those dead generals for?

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by marcelos11 View Post
    yeah.

    and hows that for a shovel full of crap in the face of the Whitecloaks.
    the whitecloaks hate channelers with a passion (Calling them darkfriends).
    the LCC of the whitecloaks (Galad) is a Half Sister to one of the most powerful aes sedai in the world, and the half brother to the dragon reborn...oh the irony...
    I found that rather amusing too, the irony is overwhelming actually. But I think Galad kind of got caught up in the events with the Seanchan invasion in Amacidia and that is why he joined them. Out of all the characters people could hate out of the series, some of the leaders of the Whitecloaks are a bunch of complete asshats.

  6. #86
    High Overlord Sanavi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Affixiation View Post
    My main disappointment with the book was Fain. I was expecting a huge fight between him, Rand and Moridin.
    Perrin being under compulsion took me completely by surprise at the end there, along with the great captains early in the book. Those parts had me over edge, very nice touch.
    Well, I wasn't actually surprised so much by the great captains being under compulsion, because I figured Graendal was messing with their minds early on in the Dream. My biggest disappointment with the book also was Fain, being tacked on at the end as a brief mention, if you will. He was built up throughout the entire series as a prime antagonist, and seeing as Demandred was going to fall to Lan's sword (one of my favorite scenes, PERFECT), I think the buildup between Mat/Fain-Mordeth deserved more attention, like Perrin/Slayer's storyline.

    But yeah, just finished the book, and I was very pleased with Sanderson's handling of the conclusion.

    I REALLY wished Hawking going to the Seanchan had been a scene in the book, and not off-camera, because I have a feeling his condemnation of his descendants abuse to women who channel is surely going to change their Empire greatly, if not entirely. They revere the man like the Creator. And remember, he was on great terms with Aes Sedai until Ishmael poisoned his mind...

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by marcelos11 View Post
    i kind of expected SOMETHING to happen to the great captains. otherwise what was the point of Matrim having the brains of all those dead generals for?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanavi View Post
    Well, I wasn't actually surprised so much by the great captains being under compulsion, because I figured Graendal was messing with their minds early on in the Dream. My biggest disappointment with the book also was Fain, being tacked on at the end as a brief mention, if you will. He was built up throughout the entire series as a prime antagonist, and seeing as Demandred was going to fall to Lan's sword (one of my favorite scenes, PERFECT), I think the buildup between Mat/Fain-Mordeth deserved more attention, like Perrin/Slayer's storyline.
    I was actually more surprised at Graendal doing something with an actual effect that you could see and it actually going according to plan rather than her talking about how she would do x and y and her plan falling flat. I'd say Demandred was the most competent of the forsaken though due to him actually owning an entire landmass of people rather than just a city such as Sammael/Rahvin. He would have been much more of a threat, possibly even winning the battle at the fields had he not been blinded by his obsession with fighting Rand.

    Good way to end a series though, makes me look forward to the rest of the Stormlight Archive books Mr Sanderson will be shelling out.

  8. #88
    High Overlord Sanavi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Affixiation View Post
    I was actually more surprised at Graendal doing something with an actual effect that you could see and it actually going according to plan rather than her talking about how she would do x and y and her plan falling flat. I'd say Demandred was the most competent of the forsaken though due to him actually owning an entire landmass of people rather than just a city such as Sammael/Rahvin. He would have been much more of a threat, possibly even winning the battle at the fields had he not been blinded by his obsession with fighting Rand.
    Yeah, his obsession was his undoing. And Lan's sword through his throat (OMGSOGOODWANNAREADITAGAIN).

  9. #89
    Scarab Lord AceofHarts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Affixiation View Post
    I was actually more surprised at Graendal doing something with an actual effect that you could see and it actually going according to plan rather than her talking about how she would do x and y and her plan falling flat. I'd say Demandred was the most competent of the forsaken though due to him actually owning an entire landmass of people rather than just a city such as Sammael/Rahvin. He would have been much more of a threat, possibly even winning the battle at the fields had he not been blinded by his obsession with fighting Rand.

    Good way to end a series though, makes me look forward to the rest of the Stormlight Archive books Mr Sanderson will be shelling out.
    well its not like Demandred had rand there to oppose him. no one even CONSIDERED looking into what was going on in Shara.
    Demandred just walked in and took it. no one cared.
    meanwhile think about it, if someone walked in and tried to take control of entire NATIONS in "Randland" the Dragon would be sure to notice.
    Last edited by AceofHarts; 2013-01-11 at 01:33 AM.

  10. #90
    High Overlord Sanavi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcelos11 View Post
    well its not like Demandred had rand there to oppose him. no one even CONSIDERED looking into what was going on in Shara.
    Demandred just walked in and took it. no one cared.
    meanwhile think about it, if someone walked in and tried to take control of entire NATIONS in "Randland" the Dragon would be sure to notice.
    I find it amazing that the heroes overlooked Shara, but then again, they had a lot on their plates.

    Btw, might want to keep spoiler tags on stuff just in case a few deer wander into the headlights.

  11. #91
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
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    It seems Rand believed the fan speculation that Demandred was the king of Murandy in disguise, judging by Rand's reaction to him at the peace meeting

  12. #92
    Scarab Lord AceofHarts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanavi View Post
    I find it amazing that the heroes overlooked Shara, but then again, they had a lot on their plates.

    Btw, might want to keep spoiler tags on stuff just in case a few deer wander into the headlights.
    but that was my point. he was completely uncontested for his area. no one really challenged him. he kind of walked in and just took it.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanavi View Post
    Yeah, his obsession was his undoing. And Lan's sword through his throat (OMGSOGOODWANNAREADITAGAIN).
    Couldn't stop laughing at Rand and Mat comparing accomplishments right in front of Tuon.
    Perfect humor for that moment.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    It seems Rand believed the fan speculation that Demandred was the king of Murandy in disguise, judging by Rand's reaction to him at the peace meeting
    I thought that was hilarious when I read it, like Team Jordan was basically saying to us, "THEORY DEBUNKED!" When Demandred was with Taim in the prologue, and he reflected on their 'familiarity', it also made me chuckle. "THEORY DEBUNKED!"

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-10 at 05:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Affixiation View Post
    Couldn't stop laughing at Rand and Mat comparing accomplishments right in front of Tuon.
    Perfect humor for that moment.
    Yeah, that was a favorite part for me. ^^ I'm surprised we actually didn't get a scene with Rand, Mat and Perrin together. That kind of bummed me out...

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanavi View Post
    I thought that was hilarious when I read it, like Team Jordan was basically saying to us, "THEORY DEBUNKED!" When Demandred was with Taim in the prologue, and he reflected on their 'familiarity', it also made me chuckle. "THEORY DEBUNKED!"

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-10 at 05:39 PM ----------



    Yeah, that was a favorite part for me. ^^ I'm surprised we actually didn't get a scene with Rand, Mat and Perrin together. That kind of bummed me out...
    Jordan confirmed ages ago that Taim was not Demandred.
    but yeah Rand walking up to Roedran was hilarious.

    and yeah, Rand and Matrim comparing accomplishments was hilarious.

  16. #96
    High Overlord Sanavi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcelos11 View Post
    Jordan confirmed ages ago that Taim was not Demandred.
    but yeah Rand walking up to Roedran was hilarious.

    and yeah, Rand and Matrim comparing accomplishments was hilarious.
    Oh, I know Jordan debunked the theory, I think Sanderson was just rubbing it in during the prologue, because there were die-hard fans clinging on to it for w/e reasons.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanavi View Post
    Oh, I know Jordan debunked the theory, I think Sanderson was just rubbing it in during the prologue, because there were die-hard fans clinging on to it for w/e reasons.
    though yeah i am still upset about just how poorly the 3 super girls treated Mat, i don't think im ever going to let that go.

    but yeah, i don't think he was rubbing it in, but i do like that they disabused the Roedran early on, though nothing they said or did disabused the Chuybon (Spelling, Elaynes 2nd in command after birgitte) was Demandred.

  18. #98
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcelos11 View Post
    though yeah i am still upset about just how poorly the 3 super girls treated Mat, i don't think im ever going to let that go.

    but yeah, i don't think he was rubbing it in, but i do like that they disabused the Roedran early on, though nothing they said or did disabused the Chuybon (Spelling, Elaynes 2nd in command after birgitte) was Demandred.
    I think there was a scene early on that had Elayne's second involved in the Defense of Caemlyn, and then there was a scene change to the Forsaken meeting and Demandred was there. Iirc, it was even during the same chapter.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanavi View Post
    Yeah, that was a favorite part for me. ^^ I'm surprised we actually didn't get a scene with Rand, Mat and Perrin together. That kind of bummed me out...
    One of the best parts imo was when Jur Grady was forced to sit back and watch all the townsfolk from Hinderstap die holding the river Mora, saw all the townsfolk and some soldiers slaughtered. Opened the gateway to hinderstap and all those townsfolk came back for another round. Forgot about that town from the other book until I read that part a second time. Dark one really bit himself in the foot with those respawning townsfolk

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by marcelos11 View Post
    when exactly did Mazrim Taim side with the shadow?
    I think there's a timeline flaw here. Demandred thinks back to recruiting him initially, and the implication was certainly that he was recruited quite some time ago, as in years and years (I wish they'd release an ebook at the same time, makes it so hard to find quotes). However going back that far Demandred was sealed in the bore afaik and not able to touch the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by marcelos11 View Post
    but yeah Rand walking up to Roedran was hilarious
    I really disliked that bit, it was a bit too nudge-nudge wink-wink fourth wall breaking imo, as was the reference in the prologue.

    Quote Originally Posted by marcelos11 View Post
    and yeah, Rand and Matrim comparing accomplishments was hilarious.
    I can't work that scene out, the comparing accomplishments bit reads like Sanderson wrote it (it just has the wrong tone for mat for me, he's too slapsticky/buffoony/repetitive when Sanderson writes him generally imo), but the grey man part read more like Jordan (oh look a grey man, I'm suddenly topless). Mat got better as it went on and there was something to focus him on other than repetitive and overdone jokes. I took thought the foxhead/ashandarei/misc other paralels were leading up to Mat dueling Demandred, and regret not getting that a lot. I also didn't like Mat/Fain, I understand the logic behind it but it should have been Perrin, similarly I'm disappointed that Rand never cleaned house at the Black Tower and fought Taim.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    I heard this a while ago, so I don't remember how credible the source is. Apparently, Robert Jordan was going to write three separate books set in the WoT universe. The first was New Spring, which was about Moiraine and Lan starting the hunt for the Dragon. The second book was supposedly about Mat and Tuon, set several years after the Last Battle. Maybe a decade or so later. If such a book existed, it would likely answer quite a few of your questions.
    You have it slightly mixed up, Jordan intended two projects, one a series of three prequels (New Spring, one on Tam Al'Thors military time and the birth and finding of Rand, and then one on Moiraine and Lan's journey to the Two Rivers), and then he intended to publish a series of 2-3 books collectively known as the Outrigger Novels, Jordan himself suggested in his blog that these were intended to focus on Mat and Tuon after the last battle, mainly going back and taking Seanchan. As a result Mat and Tuon have been the only ones we could be basically positive were going to get through the last battle, or at least were intended to get through. They never got further than speculation and some comments from Jordan regarding using his notes and so forth however. Sanderson could have changed that outcome of course, but that would have been very strange.

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