Should father have any say about abortion?

[Underverse]

And your lack of respect for the miracle of life is now well noted. I still disagree and have every right to.

Hmmm miracle is a strong word. I suggest "construct", that might suit reality better. No offense.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

I agree that there should be consequences. And I think that consequence should be the ability for the man to not pay child support. But to force a woman to bear a child is simply too much.

And what consequence is there to the woman if she aborts it like it was nothing? The only one who suffers is the father who only desired to protect life that was helped into existence by him. That little mass of shit doesn't stay that way, it already has the makings and genetic mapping to become a human being. What so many here in this thread regard as basically garbage very well could become something beautiful and uplifting to the world. They lack respect for the process of birth, the miracle of life, even more miraculous when you don't believe in a higher power or a spiritual realm.

The woman should always have that plausibility of losing the battle should a man be able to prove himself before the eyes of his peers. She took that risk, senselessly, believing she could discard it like rubbish--that changes when the tables can be turned. It is better for her to think beforehand than to be so wasteful anyway and trust me, this would help go a long way. I refuse to believe that every abortion case should end with such a simplistic waver of responsibility regardless of the situation. The father should have a say, even if it only has a small chance to prevent it in the first place.

[Seranthor]

Aborting te child is selfish too. And well immoral don't know thats debatable, arrogant maybe.

Unfortunately it appears guys lose all rights at the point they stick it in, everything after that the 'pro-choice' crowd will tell you that the men have no more choice.

[Budong]

Absolutely not. A woman has to go through all the life changing events that involve being pregnant. She has to literally risk her life in order to give birth. All a guy has to do is deposit the sperm and do his best to provide for the family. A man can give his opinion but cannot make the decision for the woman.

[semaphore]

Wow that's disgusting. Mostly the first one but the second one is still pretty dumb. Though I have to say these cases are probably somewhat rare

Fortunately, common sense won the day on that first case. I found a minute in the Oklahoma judiciary where a superior court judge reversed the ruling on the somewhat ad hoc but nonetheless morally correct ground that the state does not want to punish rape victims. It's only been like half a decade where the rape victim and her child's life was traumatised, but hey.

[High King Argorothiis]

i believe this post was started to c wot peoples oppinions on whether fathers should have a say about abortions or not ( which i think fathers should have say as i said b4) but it seems to have taken on more of a man bashing agenda and once again the ever revolving door of giving more rights has come into play in this regard yes people have a right to their oppinion but if u women dnt want bays dnt have sex simple or put protection measures in place otherwise except the fact tht baby should be the say of both mother and father nuff said

[Laize]

Fortunately, common sense ruled the day on that first case. I found a minute in the Oklahoma judiciary where a superior court judge reversed the ruling on the somewhat ad hoc but nonetheless morally correct ground that the state does not want to punish rape victims.

Wouldn't it be nice if men were afforded the same courtesy?

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Hmmm miracle is a strong word. I suggest "construct", that might suit reality better. No offense.

Hah, tell me how you "construct" things out of nothing. That is a miracle. It is a random occurrence that resulted in something amazing.

Do you really believe birth, evolution, and existence itself is simply a construct despite the fact that our universe is essentially nothing more than chaos? You seem to take for granted the very fact you're breathing. What it took and how many random elements had to fall into place to bring you to life.

[Budong]

I'm pretty sure if the poll wasn't placed on a gaming site dominated by males it wouldn't be the same as it is right now. It is a terrible idea imo.

Agreed 100%

[Slybak]

Fairness and equality would entail both a man and a woman having the equal right to decline all parental obligations, in this case child support payments, to their child once it is born. As it stands, neither men nor women have this right and, as such, there is no equal protection violation.

Under U.S. law, it has been established that the state has a reasonable and compelling interest to ensure that all children are cared for financially to the best ability of their legal (i.e. biological or adoptive) parents. The statutory history of this interest, at least at the Federal level, dates back to the 1920s when many children went uncared for in states with weak or no child protection laws.

These laws functioned to create an obligation between a parent and a child, not a parent of a child to that child's other parent. In the case of a terminated pregnancy, the state has no reasonable and compelling interest as there is no child. The situations are not analogous.

[Underverse]

And what consequence is there to the woman if she aborts it like it was nothing? The only one who suffers is the father who only desired to protect life that was helped into existence by him. That little mass of shit doesn't stay that way, it already has the makings and genetic mapping to become a human being. What so many here in this thread regard as basically garbage very well could become something beautiful and uplifting to the world. They lack respect for the process of birth, the miracle of life, even more miraculous when you don't believe in a higher power or a spiritual realm.

The woman should always have that plausibility of losing the battle should a man be able to prove himself before the eyes of his peers. She took that risk, senselessly, believing she could discard it like rubbish--that changes when the tables can be turned. It is better for her to think beforehand than to be so wasteful anyway and trust me, this would help go a long way. I refuse to believe that every abortion case should end with such a simplistic waver of responsibility regardless of the situation. The father should have a say, even if it only has a small chance to prevent it in the first place.

Why a consequence for abortion? We got to this point in history because natural selection was cruel, and killed many of our babies and fetuses. We couldn't have gotten here without that.

Life isn't real. You have to define it using a construct. I'm curious, what's your definition? Use of atp? A beating heart?

Respect for birth...hmmm...interesting concept, I don't see why though. Although I do sometimes come to the full realization of the complexity of our bodies, and it's very interesting, but I wouldn't dare call it miraculous.

[StationaryHawk]

So you're saying "I just want a small chance to be able to control a woman's body. That's not so bad right?" No. Not your body, not yours to control, period.

You always have a chance to appeal to the woman to keep the baby, by actually making it easier for her (I don't know, paying for her expenses? Taking an pro-active part? Being there for her emotionally? Compensating her for her time and physical trauma?) But no, instead all you lot talk about is how you should be allowed to sue a woman for the control of her own body. Get real. No one's going to willingly go through with a pregnancy when the father reveals himself to be such a selfish, thoughtless jerk.

It'd be nice if you could make your arguments without claiming each male in this thread to be a sexist pig who's no doubt emotionally abusing every woman they know.

[Wynnyelle]

i believe this post was started to c wot peoples oppinions on whether fathers should have a say about abortions or not ( which i think fathers should have say as i said b4) but it seems to have taken on more of a man bashing agenda and once again the ever revolving door of giving more rights has come into play in this regard yes people have a right to their oppinion but if u women dnt want bays dnt have sex simple or put protection measures in place otherwise except the fact tht baby should be the say of both mother and father nuff said

So because we believe that the mother should have control of her own body, we're taking a men bashing agenda? You think this is about getting more rights? Everybody has a right to control what goes on with their own body, period. Men and women alike. It's not about getting more rights for women and it's not about men bashing. Get a reality check.

[Kasierith]

Hah, tell me how you "construct" things out of nothing. That is a miracle. It is a random occurrence that resulted in something amazing.

Do you really believe birth, evolution, and existence itself is simply a construct despite the fact that our universe is essentially nothing more than chaos? You seem to take for granted the very fact you're breathing. What it took and how many random elements had to fall into place to bring you to life.

Religion should not dictate politics. Now that you've essentially come out and said it, your projected mentality is pretty much clear, and being able to force a pregnancy on a woman based on your religious viewpoints is absolutely unacceptable.

[semaphore]

Wouldn't it be nice if men were afforded the same courtesy?

It sure would be nice if you stop pretending the fucked up custody system specifically targets men. That a judge managed to inject common sense in one case doesn't mean the system is better to women, or else we wouldn't have rape victims who carried their pregnancy to term being hounded by their rapists in almost every state.

[Rukentuts]

It sure would be nice if you stop pretending the fucked up custody system specifically targets men.

It sure would be nice if you started accepting facts.

[semaphore]

It'd be nice if you could make your arguments without labeling each male in this thread a sexist pig who's no doubt emotionally abusing every woman they know.

Where did I label "each male in this thread"? I certainly said nothing about Spectral. That post was directed that at one specific poster who expressed attitude that I consider to be exactly that of a "a sexist pig". Why you think that has anything to do with the rest of the men here says more about yourself.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

So you're saying "I just want a small chance to be able to control a woman's body. That's not so bad right?" No. Not your body, not yours to control, period.

You always have a chance to appeal to the woman to keep the baby, by actually making it easier for her (I don't know, paying for her expenses? Taking an pro-active part? Being there for her emotionally? Compensating her for her time and physical trauma?) But no, instead all you lot talk about is how you should be allowed to sue a woman for the control of her own body. Get real. No one's going to willingly go through with a pregnancy when the father reveals himself to be such a selfish, thoughtless jerk.

And here is where you begin to unravel and show your prejudice.

I never said I wouldn't be willing to work with her in private and try to come to a compromise. To be there for her and try to be a sympathetic partner through the ordeal even if we were to part immediately after. In fact that'd be my first instinct. I find the utilization of law as a final and last resort. If she was completely unwilling, I'd have no choice but to try and plead my case before a jury and judge. Even then my odds would be slim and the deck stacked against me. However, at least I have options open to me.

It would also only be fair, if she was essentially forced into it by mandate, that I pay for her hospital expenses. However to save that life, that'd be a very, very small price to pay for a major victory.

[Rukentuts]

It'd be nice if you could make your arguments without claiming each male in this thread to be a sexist pig who's no doubt emotionally abusing every woman they know.

While simultaneously labeling them as "deadbeats", I know right? The sexist hypocrisy makes me ill.

[Laize]

It sure would be nice if you stop pretending the fucked up custody system specifically targets men. That a judge managed to inject common sense in one case doesn't mean the system is better to women, or else we wouldn't have rape victims who carried their pregnancy to term being hounded by their rapists in almost every state.

You were the one who brought rape into the equation.

I'm still of the opinion men and women should have total reproductive control. While that means women should be able to abort without approval, it also means men shouldn't be forced to pay child support when the kid is born against their wishes.