View Poll Results: Opinions?

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1040. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    629 60.48%
  • No

    328 31.54%
  • Undecided

    83 7.98%
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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Waifu View Post
    Aborting te child is selfish too.
    No, it's not.
    Technically, yes it is. Considering being selfish is caring only for oneself, one's own welfare, benefit, feelings etc. By not considering the father in the matter, it is technically selfish. That having been said, I am not actually against it, and I believe it should ultimately be the woman's decision.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by kuku2 View Post
    Are you going to pay for the medical/food costs involved during the pregnancy?

    Even if you are, you still can't cover the physical damages to her body as a result of the pregnancy. She'll potentially have to deal with stretch marks, tears, etc, and she might become self-conscious as a result. Could you really expect someone to go through all of that just so you can have a baby?
    What about the feelings of the guy, he will feel like he has lost a child, can become depressed angry and what not.
    Do you think someone has to go trough that?

  3. #43
    The Lightbringer Deadvolcanoes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waifu View Post
    So when a woman got pregnant, And the guy says : Please don't abort it i will raise it by myself when it comes out.
    Her saying no because she doesen't want to is not selfish?


    I guess opinions differ but i find that utter bullshit
    Calling abortion a selfish act is utter bullshit. For all you know the mother really wants the child, but aborted because she knows she can't provide a decent life for said child, or she fears the father would abuse/molest it.

    You can call specific examples selfish (I don't want the child, I just want to party), but you don't get to call the act of abortion selfish.
    It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Torq View Post
    But if she then goes and puts the father into a position where he has to financially support the child for 18 years, that 9 months starts to pale in comparison.."
    No, it doesn't. You pick a dollar figure, and I'll pay it for 18 years rather than have a pregnancy (not an option, since I'm male, but you get the point).

    Besides which, there's a fairly straightforward fashion for men to mitigate this risk - use contraceptives and sleep with women that you're reasonably confident don't want children.
    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    Well when you put it that way Obamacare is a lot like Iraq...

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by kuku2 View Post
    Are you going to pay for the medical/food costs involved during the pregnancy?

    Even if you are, you still can't cover the physical damages to her body as a result of the pregnancy. She'll potentially have to deal with stretch marks, tears, etc, and she might become self-conscious as a result. Could you really expect someone to go through all of that just so you can have a baby?
    Ofcourse if I'm willing to pay and raise the child 6-7 months of medical expenses aren't exacly important. As for pregnancy itself, it's hardly something that would scar (not talking stricly physicaly) some for life, especially seeing how many rights women have in America, they wouldn't have to work and they'd still get payed because of their pregnancy.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by kuku2 View Post
    Are you going to pay for the medical/food costs involved during the pregnancy?

    Even if you are, you still can't cover the physical damages to her body as a result of the pregnancy. She'll potentially have to deal with stretch marks, tears, etc, and she might become self-conscious as a result. Could you really expect someone to go through all of that just so you can have a baby?
    Well, I dunno, if the situations were reversed, can you really expect someone to have to support a child they never wanted for 18 years (or more)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    No, it doesn't. You pick a dollar figure, and I'll pay it for 18 years rather than have a pregnancy (not an option, since I'm male, but you get the point).

    Besides which, there's a fairly straightforward fashion for men to mitigate this risk - use contraceptives and sleep with women that you're reasonably confident don't want children.
    Contraceptives fail, and women (aka humans in general) are sometimes deceptive.

    There are just as many counter-arguments from that side as there are arguments from yours.

    But again, you're going off on the whole "x party forces y party to do z" instead of, you know, some form of actual rational compromise.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Waifu View Post
    So when a woman got pregnant, And the guy says : Please don't abort it i will raise it by myself when it comes out.
    Her saying no because she doesen't want to is not selfish?
    Correct, it's not selfish in any reasonable sense. He has absolutely no right whatsoever to strip her of bodily autonomy and she's under no obligation to be his incubator. She's no more selfish than a person that doesn't give money to a beggar.
    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    Well when you put it that way Obamacare is a lot like Iraq...

  8. #48
    Noone should be able to DECLINE an abortion if the other party wants it.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Umchilli View Post
    Thank you for providing useful and well-founded informations to the discussion.
    You're welcome! When people assert things without a coherent argument, they can be dismissed in the same fashion. That's a great lesson to learn, I strongly recommend taking it to heart.
    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    Well when you put it that way Obamacare is a lot like Iraq...

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    Calling abortion a selfish act is utter bullshit. For all you know the mother really wants the child, but aborted because she knows she can't provide a decent life for said child, or she fears the father would abuse/molest it.

    You can call specific examples selfish (I don't want the child, I just want to party), but you don't get to call the act of abortion selfish.
    And thats why there is something called adoption.

  11. #51
    If the woman can have the baby then ask for child support when the man didn't want it then yes a man should have equal rights in deciding to keep it or not.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Umchilli View Post
    Ofcourse if I'm willing to pay and raise the child 6-7 months of medical expenses aren't exacly important. As for pregnancy itself, it's hardly something that would scar (not talking stricly physicaly) some for life, especially seeing how many rights women have in America, they wouldn't have to work and they'd still get payed because of their pregnancy.
    You could always go ahead and find someone that actually wants to be pregnant rather than attempting to force it on someone.

    Really, you should make this view clear to any woman that's thinking about sleeping with you. Make good and sure that they're aware you desire to control them.
    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    Well when you put it that way Obamacare is a lot like Iraq...

  13. #53
    The Lightbringer Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umchilli View Post
    IMHO I find unbelieveably unfair that woman can have an abortion without the consent of the father (ignoring extreme cases like rape ofcourse).
    But then again I'm not really for abortion at all so my opinion might not be the most objective one.
    Women's excuse is that baby is part of their body and they can do what they want with it.

    Thoughts?
    Most would say that its the woman's body and that she should be the sole choice here. And I think if she's making the sole choice, then she should be given sole responsibility, meaning, No, you cant go back to the father and demand child support.

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    You're welcome! When people assert things without a coherent argument, they can be dismissed in the same fashion. That's a great lesson to learn, I strongly recommend taking it to heart.
    Coming from someone who's started the argument in that fashion in the first place.

  15. #55
    I am Murloc! Digglett's Avatar
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    It's the woman's body, not the man's. So, no. Although, the woman should be considerate to the man and not, say, sneak behind his back when he wants the kid to abort it, you should at least give them a heads up.

    Also I could see a man abusing his right to a woman having an abortion by guilt tripping them into getting it/not getting it. I agree a man should have a say in if he wants to be a father or not, if he doesn't want to pay child support he shouldn't have to. (Of course with some restrictions, like, if a father is involved with a kid, then just one day drops out without saying anything)

    That to me is more fair than having a man have the right to say a woman should get an abortion, legally.
    Last edited by Digglett; 2012-12-05 at 02:07 AM.

  16. #56
    It's a rather binary situation. It's unfair to the father if he has no say but it's also unfair to the mother if the father has any say.

    Bergtau's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability that somebody will mention Godwin's Law approaches 1.
    Hitler wasn't all bad, I mean, he DID kill Hitler.
    An accident is something that you did not mean to do at all. A mistake is something that you regret doing.

  17. #57
    Yes, the father should have some say, if it wasn't for him, the baby wouldn't be being made. However, the father should only be able to stop the abortion if he signs legally-binding contracts that would make it to where he would pay for everything, help alleviate any inconveniences faced by the mother because of the pregnancy and birth, and take custody of the child after it is born. Making it to where, while the mother still had a lot of say, if the father was completely determined on having the child, he still could. And yes, I think it is fair for the mother to give up the right to abort if the father does/accepts to do what I listed above. Regardless of whether it is her body or not, it is partly the father's child and the father should have some say whether the child is born or not. Even if it means going to great lengths, ie signing many legal contracts, etc to secure the child's birth, I think a father who is that determined to see the child born, should be able to.

    And no, the argument I made, is not based off of religious ("insert word of your choice", mine is stuff, since it still abides by the rules of this forum and isn't bashful), it is based off of my view of equality.
    Last edited by Hastings; 2012-12-05 at 02:06 AM.
    "Then we have found, as it seems, that the many beliefs of the many about what's fair and about the other things roll around somewhere between not-being and being purely and simply." - Plato: Republic

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Hastings95 View Post
    Yes, the father should have some say, if it wasn't for him, the baby wouldn't be being made. However, the father should only be able to stop the abortion if he signs legally-binding contracts that would make it to where he would pay for everything, help alleviate any inconveniences faced by the mother because of the pregnancy and birth, and take custody of the child after it is born. Making it to where, while the mother still had a lot of say, if the father was completely determined on having the child, he still could. And yes, I think it is fair for the mother to give up the right to abort if the father does/accepts to do what I listed above. Regardless of whether it is her body or not, it is partly the father's child and the father should have some say whether the child is born or not. Even if it means going to great lengths, ie signing many legal contracts, etc to secure the child's birth, I think a father who is that determined to see the child born, should be able to.
    I cannot agree more.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Digglett View Post
    It's the woman's body, not the man's. So, no. Although, the woman should be considerate to the man and not, say, sneak behind his back when he wants the kid to abort it, you should at least give them a heads up.
    If she's sneaking behind his back, it's likely because of fear of violence.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-04 at 09:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Hastings95 View Post
    Yes, the father should have some say, if it wasn't for him, the baby wouldn't be being made. However, the father should only be able to stop the abortion if he signs legally-binding contracts that would make it to where he would pay for everything, help alleviate any inconveniences faced by the mother because of the pregnancy and birth, and take custody of the child after it is born. Making it to where, while the mother still had a lot of say, if the father was completely determined on having the child, he still could. And yes, I think it is fair for the mother to give up the right to abort if the father does/accepts to do what I listed above. Regardless of whether it is her body or not, it is partly the father's child and the father should have some say whether the child is born or not. Even if it means going to great lengths, ie signing many legal contracts, etc to secure the child's birth, I think a father who is that determined to see the child born, should be able to.
    So, if a man's sufficiently determined, he should be able to subjugate a woman's body to his desire. Rape cool too?
    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    Well when you put it that way Obamacare is a lot like Iraq...

  20. #60
    Of course he should. It is HIS baby too.

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