Should father have any say about abortion?

[Deleted]

A child is not ONE womans alone, therefore not only her decision. IF the ladies want to play that way, they need to embrace the future and go get pregnant by an applicator in a doctors office.

I understand, I'm just trying to say that with society still being sexist women are still viewed in a way which pretty much absolves them of any sexual responsibility.

[Boogums]

9 months of carrying the baby + a day or so of labor < 18 - 23 years of child support, imho

If she wants to keep the baby and he doesn't, she should be allowed to have it but with no child support.
If he wants to keep the baby but she doesn't, she should have it and he should get full custody without child support.

[shise]

There's no point to have a kid if just one of them doesn't really want to.

Then again, it comes down to each couple, no law should decide such things for people... if they can't even take such decision then tehy should even comsider keeping together. Many times one of them want kids and the other doesn't, but they should be able to solve the issue. So I basically stay on my first sencence.

[Deleted]

9 months of carrying the baby + a day or so of labor < 18 - 23 years of child support, imho

If she wants to keep the baby and he doesn't, she should be allowed to have it but with no child support.
If he wants to keep the baby but she doesn't, she should have it and he should get full custody without child support.

How are you gonna force her to give birth to the baby?

[Deleted]

The rules should be simple enough:
3) Man wants an Abortion, Women doesn't = Women accepts the Man no longer has any rights or responsibilities regarding the child.

You seem to forget that this is not about the woman and the man, but the CHILD.
It had no say in this whole situation whatsoever and definitely has a right to hold both parents accountable, so signing away those rights and responsibilities shouldn't be that easy.

Not to mention that this would basically allow men to waive any responsibility when it comes to having sex and that is more unfair than the current situation, even when disregarding the child's rights.


Both partners agreed on having sex and both have pretty reliable options for contraception - pretty fair so far, just women get an extra option after the fact, which is neither an easy option nor does the man have no influence even if it is ultimately her decision.
It's not an ideal situation but such is life and any other solution would be more unfair especially towards the child.

[Purlina]

Well, I am also worried a contract would compromise consent. I mean, what would happen if you signed it then decided you didn't want sex?

PS: I don't know why I'm defending stupid people who sign without reading, it's so unlike me.

Simple, the contract should state the outcome in the event of a pregnancy. The contract would not state that you agree to have sex.

[Elim Garak]

You seem to forget that this is not about the woman and the man, but the CHILD.
It had no say in this whole situation whatsoever and definitely has a right to hold both parents accountable, so signing away those rights and responsibilities shouldn't be that easy.

It should as easy as giving said baby to the orphanage. Period.

[Liagala]

Science and medicine just need to get on the ball and work up a way for a fetus to grow safely outside the womb. Mother wants an abortion and father wants the baby? Good. Move it to that thing. Mom can bail (still responsible for child support of course), and Dad can raise his child. It's the same situation we have now, but applies equally to both parents. The whole argument about medical complications for the mother inherent in carrying a child is removed, taking with it the only real argument that keeps this whole debate one-sided.

[Banzhe]

We're not talking random encounters here, we're talking situations where the male wants a child. If you ended up getting pregnant after not taking contraception or not insisting the man use a condom then why do you have the right to abort that man's child? Even better, why not get an implant which is easily removable for long term effectiveness?

You need to get some general background information on various contraceptions first mate, but I'll toss you an analogy to see if it puts things into perspective for you!

Say they have the child because the man wanted it, the woman goes into depression because she can't figure out what to do with her life now, and in general her life have been reduced from doing what she loved (whatever that may have been, career / enjoying life etc).., it continues to the point where she starts getting suicidal tendencies, was it worth it?

Down the line, the man starts having frustrations due to the woman having these issues, one day when the child is screaming it's lungs out he shake's her hard / violently which a neighbour happens to witness and naturally reports, the child is then removed from the care of these two and placed in foster care, was it worth it?

These are just a couple of possible scenario's because the woman was denied her god given option to use her own judgement in a matter that affects no one as it's not a life at the stage where a possible abortion is taken!

[Rukentuts]

It should as easy as giving said baby to the orphanage. Period.

Or dropping it off at any church, hospital, fire station, police station, etc.

[Xanjori]

Every woman has no choice BUT to take responsibility for HER OWN sex life. If she falls pregnant, SHE has to face either 9 months of pregnancy (and then the rest of her life as a mother) or go through with an abortion. Either way, SHE is stuck with the consequences. They will stay with her for the rest of HER life, far more than any man can ever hope to comprehend. If you think having an abortion is an "easy" way out, you are a naive fool. At best most women will be left with moderate emotional scarring and a bit of physical trauma, realistically though, the emotional trauma is a lot worse than most will realise. At worst there can extreme emotional/physical damage..

This is the biggest load of shit I ever read. My GF had an abortion at 17 and had no downsides to it at all. Two years later she had a daughter totally fine and has no "scarring" or any other shit from the first abortion.

Dont make up crap.

[Tastyfish]

I understand, I'm just trying to say that with society still being sexist women are still viewed in a way which pretty much absolves them of any sexual responsibility.

Agreed.
I'm actually happy there is a lot of drama about gays adopting, because it's helping to break us out of this thinking that men cannot be functional parents.. children must have mothers.

But the beauty of it all is: Pro choice, only going one way, is not choice.

[Repefe]

Ultimatelly it's the womans decision. Man can show his support or the lack of, but that's all he can do. Womans body, womans decision.

[Raelbo]

I'm all for abortion when it's a mutial issue, BUT two people need to make a joint choice.

That is simply not possible when the two people disagree. If one partner wants an abortion and the other doesn't one will get there way, and the other won't. There is no other possible outcome.

Telling a woman she can't have an abortion unless the father consents is no different to giving the father 100% of the say on the issue. Allowing a woman to decide whether to have an abortion gives her 100% of the say on the issue. There is no middle ground.

Given that you actually have to choose: Is this the father's decision or the mother's decision. Given that it is the mother's body, that choice is easy...

[Grizzly Willy]

Well, I am also worried a contract would compromise consent. I mean, what would happen if you signed it then decided you didn't want sex?

Start with the stipulation that: "In the event that both parties agree to sexual intercourse, this contract comes into play. This contract does not act as a an agreement to have sex."

Think I need to work on my legal jargon, but you get the point. It can be specified that the contract does not count as consent, only that it is to be enacted in the event that both parties agree to have sex. In cases of non-consensual intercourse I would assume that rape laws would come into affect, and I would hope that the victim is not required to support the child that results from that act.

[reboot-me]

Message Deleted

[Raphtheone]

Any would-be parent that wish to opt out should be allowed to. A man should have a window to decide (pulling numbers, 2 weeks from when the woman tells him she's pregnant, or for as long as legal abortion can be performed, whichever comes latest). If the topic is to abort or not, a male casual sexual partner should be allowed to input in the childs fate, only wether or not he should be held accountable. On the other hand, if it's a child produced in a marriage, while I don't say the child will be born if the man decides he wants it against the womans wishes, I do say he at least should have some say in the matter, at the expense to opt out (why would you be married to someone, have a sexual relationship, and then not do your duty as a husband/would-be father?), unless otherwise stated in a prenup or something.

The entire topic is delicate and intricate, but my belief is that both men and women have different areas where they are the top dog, in the case of family it's women, and the workplace seem to slightly favor men, especially at top positions. Women are pushing to get equal rights and pay at work (and whatnot), but to keep the status quo they'll have to trade some of their top cards in other areas, such as family matters. Same way goes for men, if they want more say when they knock someone up, they have to give something in return.

But really, any man who gets "tricked" into making a woman pregnant and then paying for it is a victim of his own stupidity.

This argument is extremely ill-thought through, and wouldn't hold in a court (which should be the basis when discussing rights). It's like saying fat people have themselves to blame (which, if you know what you're talking about, you'll know isn't necessarily true).

[Purlina]

That is simply not possible when the two people disagree. If one partner wants an abortion and the other doesn't one will get there way, and the other won't. There is no other possible outcome.

Telling a woman she can't have an abortion unless the father consents is no different to giving the father 100% of the say on the issue. Allowing a woman to decide whether to have an abortion gives her 100% of the say on the issue. There is no middle ground.

Given that you actually have to choose: Is this the father's decision or the mother's decision. Given that it is the mother's body, that choice is easy...

Or as I keep saying, form a legally binding agreement before having sex.

[Deleted]

My answer is definately: yes. A father must have the right to save his unborn child's life assuming the pregnancy doesn't have serious risks to the mother's (and the baby's) health or life. But i'm not even convinced any mother have the right to kill the unborn child just because it's not convenient for them. Yes, i know pregnancy is hard and can permanently change a woman's body but we're talking about taking a human's life here.

PS: sorry for my english, hope you can undersand everything!

[Tastyfish]

Say they have the child because the man wanted it, the woman goes into depression because she can't figure out what to do with her life now, and in general her life have been reduced from doing what she loved (whatever that may have been, career / enjoying life etc).., it continues to the point where she starts getting suicidal tendencies, was it worth it?

Down the line, the man starts having frustrations due to the woman having these issues, one day when the child is screaming it's lungs out he shake's her hard / violently which a neighbour happens to witness and naturally reports, the child is then removed from the care of these two and placed in foster care, was it worth it?

These are just a couple of possible scenario's because the woman was denied her god given option to use her own judgement in a matter that affects no one as it's not a life at the stage where a possible abortion is taken!

Asserting GOD gives you the option to blow some cells out your vag because you might loose your job also means GOD gave you the ability to comprehend your ambition is important and to take every step to cut down anything that can derail it. All things are preventable.

AND fathers of aborted chidren get a host of psychological trauma too. Lets not pretend wanting a kid, and having it denied to you, or having one you don't want only fucks up ONE of the two parties.