Should father have any say about abortion?

[Trunksee]

People have really derailed this topic to whos a bad person at this point.

Child = 23 year commitment correct?

Abortion= no commitment and a fee correct

Why cant a man have an abortion then? Is that fair that a woman can end a 23 year commitment or and a man cant? You can make the point that you knew the consequences if abortion were illegal but its not. If your afraid of rape in a relatinship make him responsible for the child if it happens. You femenists with your fear of rape if men can opt out is unjustified. We arent cavemen anymore.

YOU WANT EQUALITY SO DO MEN

[Rukentuts]

All of these options operate under the assumption that the biological parents cannot provide adequate care and to prevent more desperate (and criminal) resorts, not to cater the "I'd rather spend my money partying with my buddies than on condoms and child care" types.
Thus you can't use those institutions as an excuse for people who are pretty well able to provide the necessary support to cheat their way out of their responsibilities.

Oh but you can. You can drop off an infant under 30 days of age at any police station, fire station, hospital, etc. in many states in the USA and they don't give a shit what your reason is.

[Tastyfish]

Lets just let everyone make up their own minds, and charge them for abuse later.

[Puri]

Mother wants to abort, father doesn't (and there is no over-average danger to the health of the mother): Father should have the right to intervene.

Father wants to abort, mother doesn't: Father cannot overvote the mother.

[arcticsnow]

Oh but you can. You can drop off an infant under 30 days of age at any police station, fire station, hospital, etc. in many states in the USA and they don't give a shit what your reason is.

Some its older, and some they don't even ask who you are. At one hospital in the ER always sits a baby incubator with a note on it stating what you said, but they won't even ask who you are as you drop the kid off. This was started for people who were tossing the kids out literally after giving birth.

In the past people used to do the same thing at orphanages, or people's door steps. Baby in a basket left on a door step with a note. Can't do the basket thing any more, but you can do it at the hospital.

[Tastyfish]

Mother wants to abort, father doesn't (and there is no over-average danger to the health of the mother): Father should have the right to intervene.

Father wants to abort, mother doesn't: Father cannot overvote the mother.

Yea you would think it work that way, and they would add in that the rejecting person has no legal responciblity either.. I mean this would be an ideal situation.

[Deleted]

Yes laws of this world govern like that. Here is a cheap shot at what I mean: Kill a gay, for having gay sex, flies in some countries.

What countries governs what you can do with your body or force things you do not want upon your body? I am genuinely interested in that, I don't find it too likely that any European country have anything close to that.

Ok to split some hairs.
Women as breeding tools? Is there an actual need to have sex other than to breed? Is there even a need to associate with the opposite sex other than to breed?
What are we other than that? Our egos let us pretend we are above, and better than that, but our SOLE biological responciblity is to reproduce. Everything counter to that is an act of will and an effect of society.

We have no responsibility to reproduce, I have no intentions of having kids. Maybe that will change in the future but I highly doubt that.
There are several health benefits with having sex regularly, did you just overlook them?

I do not doubt that they will be able to artificially create life in a womb-like environment but in a lab rather htan in a woman in the future. I do not doubt that science will learn how to manipulate our genes to make us better than what we are now which puts the whole 'breeding' aspect out of business if they can create perfect genetic humans in a lab but we're not there yet, it will probably take quite the time.

[Trunksee]

The problem im seeing here is the idea that if a pro choice person calls it a child you then need to look at the fathers rights as well. If you call it anything else it leaves it up to the woman. By calling it aborting a child you have to look at the legal right for a man to do the same thing. Ifyou want abortions to be legal you must give both sexes the same right to manage their life. If you would rather want financial responsibility taken by one side which must go both ways you abolish abortion.

Pro choice feminist wont call it aborting a child because its two fold for them not to. If they do you have to look at the mans and the.childs rights and 2 against 1 is bad odds.

[Deleted]

Oh but you can. You can drop off an infant under 30 days of age at any police station, fire station, hospital, etc. in many states in the USA and they don't give a shit what your reason is.

Yes you can drop off the children, but you cannot use it as point in favor why men should be able to simply say "no thanks" and waive all responsibilities for their child.
Well you could, but that's a bit like saying millionaires should get their villas for free because they could get free food and shelter from the local charity organization if they pretend to be homeless.

[Tastyfish]

What countries governs what you can do with your body or force things you do not want upon your body? I am genuinely interested in that, I don't find it too likely that any European country have anything close to that.
.

Thankfully America, and Europe are not the only places on earth, the world.
Actually the fact in both America and Europe there are arranged marriages for some, and sexual laws based on religion would imply there is more beyond our two cultures ideals of freedom.
OR suddenly Is there a lifting of the tabboo of marrying my sister, having sex with a 10 yearold, having 8 wives and so on. ^_- ( all gross mind you, but our contries do have laws against those things, rite? That is regulating what I do with my body, rite? )

[Trunksee]

It was a while back so im going to bring it back up about myself. I am a man who for better terms had an abortion. The woman kept the bay and I terminated my rights to the child. I am advocating for all other men to be able to do the same as long as woman can still have an abortion. And yes she concented so i didnt force anything on her. Just took me 11 years and $50000 to get it between child support and legal fees. If a woman can do it for whatever the abortion cost is men should be able to do the same for the same price.

[capitano666]

Yeah I believe women have the final word on that, but the father is justified on leaving them if he wanted abortion and she wanted to keep the baby.

[skrump]

It is a binary problem. There is no middle ground that allows a "fair" solution. Given that we have to go with what is the least unfair.

Let's assume the woman is extremely opposed to abortion for a number of reasons, and the pregnancy was unintended

Here are the options:

Force a woman to abort so that the father can opt out.
Force a woman to accept sole responsibility for the child.
Split the costs 50/50.

Which of those really seems the least unfair hmm?

Seriously, there is no contest. Pregnancy is always a risk of having sex. Men and women should know this. You can't depend on abortion as your "get out of jail free card". If you don't like it, don't have sex. Or man up, and take responsibility.

It has nothing to do with the fact that the woman has a choice to opt out. That should be considered a bonus option where it is taken. Just because some women would choose to have an abortion to opt out, that does not make it fair force another woman who is opposed to abortion to choose between that and accepting sole responsibility for something that was equally caused by both parties.

Ok so I am going to reword it a little bit

Choices
#1 Female Opts out aka abortion
#2 Female take responsibility (if he opts out the financial burden is yours alone so decide wisely)

The man has 2 options himself
#1 Take responsibility (this option is lost if she Opts out)
#2 Opt out

The man is not forcing you to get and abortion nor is he forcing you to keep the child Nor should you be allowed to force him into the financial obligation of fatherhood because at the end of the day You as a women still have both options and his decision should be a factor in your's

In short it is more ethical for him to have an influence on your decision than it is for you to deny him a decision at all.

[Tastyfish]

We have no responsibility to reproduce, I have no intentions of having kids. Maybe that will change in the future but I highly doubt that.
There are several health benefits with having sex regularly, did you just overlook them?

I do not doubt that they will be able to artificially create life in a womb-like environment but in a lab rather htan in a woman in the future. I do not doubt that science will learn how to manipulate our genes to make us better than what we are now which puts the whole 'breeding' aspect out of business if they can create perfect genetic humans in a lab but we're not there yet, it will probably take quite the time.

OH come on now. The maintaining of the species is prime directive of any animal. Be they aware of it or not. I am not saying it's a sirens call or anything, but the point of picking a sex partner, and the desire to have sex, compatiblity and all that is about dumping your genes together to produce an ideal hybrid of both :P LOL

We are not above nature. We think we are, but we are not.

People say semen is an anti depressent, but people also say Meth is great for people who need to have oral surgery...

[Kagdar]

No, he should not have a say in whether or not the woman wants to abort or not. He should however be able to be excused from paying for the next 18 years if he wants the woman to abort and it's still early enough for her to do so - if she still wants it? Well then she should be able to provide for it herself.

It basically comes down to this.

Both want it? Great
Both do not want it? Great

Mother wants it but the father does not? He should not be hung up on 18 years of payment and the mother should be able to care for her child alone.

Father wants it? Well here is where I'd say the mother still decides at this point. The man cannot demand the woman to go through pregnancy.

So mush this. The father have nothing to say if the woman want an abortion. SHE would be the one to carry the child for 9 month.
But if she want to keep it, the father have a right to refuse to be named as the father.

[Detheavn]

OH come on now. The maintaining of the species is prime directive of any animal. Be they aware of it or not. I am not saying it's a sirens call or anything, but the point of picking a sex partner, and the desire to have sex, compatiblity and all that is about dumping your genes together to produce an ideal hybrid of both :P LOL

We are not above nature. We think we are, but we are not.

Tell that to asexual people

[Deleted]

Thankfully America, and Europe are not the only places on earth, the world.
Actually the fact in both America and Europe there are arranged marriages for some, and sexual laws based on religion would imply there is more beyond our two cultures ideals of freedom.

You still did not name any country that would force things upon your body that you do not want, by law. I do not count religion as law.

OR suddenly Is there a lifting of the tabboo of marrying my sister

...

Are you seriously talking about biological responsibility before and now go saying "marrying my sister", siblings have a sexual aversion(Unless it was somehow trained away.) to eachother if they grew up knowing eachother because incest strengthens the features, both good and bad, it's bad for the species, there needs to be variation or the bad traits are gonna be so strong that it will affect the quality of life because nobody is genetically perfect enough to rule out bad traits from being passed on and strengthened.

having 8 wives and so on. ^_- ( all gross mind you, but our contries do have laws against those things, rite?)

I don't see how 8 wives would be gross, I really don't.

[arcticsnow]

What countries governs what you can do with your body or force things you do not want upon your body? I am genuinely interested in that, I don't find it too likely that any European country have anything close to that.


We have no responsibility to reproduce, I have no intentions of having kids. Maybe that will change in the future but I highly doubt that.
There are several health benefits with having sex regularly, did you just overlook them?

I do not doubt that they will be able to artificially create life in a womb-like environment but in a lab rather htan in a woman in the future. I do not doubt that science will learn how to manipulate our genes to make us better than what we are now which puts the whole 'breeding' aspect out of business if they can create perfect genetic humans in a lab.

Problem with that is, if you remove all the "bad", and leave only the "good" then disease can be more fatal to larger groups. There are cases where genetic diseases can save you, while normal healthy people die. Diversity is what keeps us going. Take away that, then we can be targets of mass kill offs of viruses. Some people have a higher death rate to certain viruses, while the same people will be resist other diseases. There are some people where HIV does not effect them at all.

What we consider bad, may save some people in the future if a virus shows up that kills people with the "good" genes

[skrump]

Yea you would think it work that way, and they would add in that the rejecting person has no legal responciblity either.. I mean this would be an ideal situation.

So you would force the women to carry a baby she does not want then give birth to it.

What is to stop her from drinking heavily during that time in hopes of giving birth to a brain dead child out of sheer spite.

I mean shit if I were a women and you tried to force that on me I would go get hopped up on meth buy a carton of smokes a gallon of vodka and hope for the best/worst depending on your view, either way i wouldn't be willing to put my life on halt for 9 months

[Tastyfish]

Are you seriously talking about biological responsibility before and now go saying "marrying my sister", siblings have a sexual aversion(Unless it was somehow trained away.) to eachother if they grew up knowing eachother because incest strengthens the features, both good and bad, it's bad for the species, there needs to be variation or the bad traits are gonna be so strong that it will affect the quality of life because nobody is genetically perfect enough to rule out bad traits from being passed on and strengthened.

I don't see how 8 wives would be gross, I really don't.

BUt there are laws preventing me and my sister from being together, which is telling me what to do with my body. That is my point. The logic on why it's bad does not matter, clearly. I figured it be more interesting arguing something like that then a 3rd world nation or Arab zealotry views on sex.

Having 8 wives would suck. I mean if your house does not have 9 bathrooms, it just be a nightmare.. Having 8 women yelling at you for leaving the seat up on the toilet or w/e ( kidding^_^)