I am not on a "high horse".
I am not on a "high horse".
If the would-be father is in a long-term relationship with the woman, then I believe he should have a say in it, but the woman has the final say (she is, after all, the person who has to deal with the long-term affects of pregnancy and childbirth).
If the man isn't in a long-term relationship with the woman, then all bets are off and it's her choice altogether.
Image created by Brienna
what get's me about discussions like this is that you could never force a woman to bear a child against their will, it's unsafe for the child.
if the woman doesn't respect her pregnancy she could be drinking or doing drugs or other activities that could harm the child...
and even if the woman is very respectful of the child's health in that situation, what happens ( gawd forbid ) the mother dies in child birth after being forced to carry this child to term? should the father be held liable, i certainly think so.
its really not. You have a variety of options to avoid having a child as a man. Just because a woman can abort does not mean you don't have decisions you can make with consequences.Not having the final say is ultimately the same as having no say though.
If your opinion can be shown to have zero effect on the outcome of a decision, then you have no say, lets not pretend otherwise.
Options don't have to be foolproof to be options. You even have fool proof (or close enough to it). You have ways to avoid unwanted children. Just because a woman can abort doesn't mean you're suddenly absolved of the responsibilities those choices entail.
No, the woman should have the ultimate say over her own body. If the woman does want to have it but the man does not, I think the man should be exempt from any sort of legal/financial obligation to the child and mother.
"Death is not kind. It's dark, black as far as you can see, and you're all alone."
Again, its not just her choices. You have choices as well. Unless your parents really skipped on the birds and the bees conversation.
See the main issue here is when one parent wants to keep the child and the other does not. Furthermore, I personally believe that abortion and many laws in general are created to protect society. Hence, let us evaluate both situations:
1. When the father has a say about abortion and mother doesn’t:
Usually what happens in these situations, especially among young women, is that a percentage of women end up finding ways of getting what they want on their own. Not only do they end up getting an abortion, whether the law allows it or not, they end up hurting themselves and even hurting their chances of getting pregnant in future.
Many women go through severe depression after having a child, it is normal. In addition, add the fact that she does not want the child and the toll of pregnancy on her body. Most males do not really realize that they are fathers until they hold their baby. Most women realize that they are mothers the moment they get pregnant. Furthermore, do not underestimate the emotional and physical toll a pregnancy can hold. I have never had an abortion but I was unfortunate enough to experience a miss miss carriage. Watching your baby come out of you in pieces over a period of 2 weeks is not something I would wish even on my worst enemy.
2. When the mother has a say about abortion and father doesn’t:
I have heard this saying a lot, “Most women are emotional, and most men are logical”. As a psychologist, I can confirm from my experience in most situations that women have a harder time than men do when it comes to losing a child. Maybe it is because some men are not good at expressing their feelings or that I can relate more to women. The majority of men end up moving on and just having more children. The thing is, men are designed In a way to spread their seeds, most men will have as many children as they can if every child can live an amazing life and have everything they need. Unfortunately, that is not possible so they end up having less children to be able to protect them and give them their best chances at a good life (at least this is true for smart sane men).
Women are different, they have to go through what they call down time when they are pregnant (parental investment) Meaning that they cannot get pregnant while they are carrying a baby. That pretty much explains most interactions between males and females and explains why mother nature or god made it much harder for a mother to give up a child than a father in most cases.
It is much and I mean much easier for a mother to take care of a new born than it is for a father. Even though she just had to go through pregnancy and birth, because that is how Mother Nature, god, or the universe intend it to be.
3. When both parents aren’t allowed to choose whether they want an abortion or not:
Main issue here is that many children end up tossed away, or end up living a bad life. Society ends up getting more criminals, uneducated bad people, and much more poor people. How can you expect parents who never wanted a child to actually bother with raising that child or spending most of their money on that child?
No it should only be the moms choice because it's part of her body. I mean if one parent wants to keep it and the other doesn't, what are you suppose to do? The keep it vote gets higher precedence, the kill it vote gets higher precedence...even if we pretended men have an equal say about abortion when the above situation occurs most courts will say the woman's choice should be higher because she has a higher investment in whatever will happen.
oh I forgot to mention one other thing:
Why do we allow women to go through with abortion and not include the father In final say?
1. Because like I said before a percentage of women will end up finding different ways of getting an abortion on their own (hurting themselves and baby in process); even if the law does not allow it or worse commit suicide (which is actually a pretty high risk in countries that do not allow abortion. Moreover, end both of their lives).
2. It is extremely unlikely for a male to force a woman into an illegal abnormal abortion just because he does not want a child. Furthermore, it is unlikely for a male to commit suicide just because he is going to be a father even if it is for a child he does not want.
3. If possible, society would like to limit the number of abortions. Furthermore, permitting males to choose whether a women should go through with her abortion would:
a. Increase the number of abortions.
b. Force a female to get abortion by abducting her and forcefully removing a child from her. However, Society would never accept that. You would also have to deal with many mothers leaving the country.
c. Mothers are statistically less likely to give up children (according to all studies). By giving mothers, the choice you decrease the number of abortions and make sure it is a last resort in most situations.
4. By authorizing the male partner a get out card, you may force her hand to go through with the abortion, and society would like to prevent that. Also, it is usually more harmful to society when the father chooses not to support his children.
So if a guy has sex with a woman that's highly against an abortion, she ends up pregnant, she should just go fuck off with no support because she's morally unable to abort?
Guess she should fall back on the state... wait, you don't want welfare either, so I guess they should both starve on the street/ she should just abort anyway, despite being against it.