View Poll Results: Opinions?

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  • Yes

    629 60.48%
  • No

    328 31.54%
  • Undecided

    83 7.98%
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  1. #1821
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Again, its not just her choices. You have choices as well. Unless your parents really skipped on the birds and the bees conversation.
    Can't help but wonder whether the terminology used in sex education has had an impact on the numbers of unplanned pregnancies.

    If we were still referring to a male "baby-maker" and a female "birth canal", one can't help but think that the idea of possible pregnancy and the birth control would stay more front and center in the steps leading up to a sexual act that may result in pregnancy.

  2. #1822
    Elemental Lord Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mischa23v View Post
    Again, you are the one who does not seem to understand. It does not matter whether you think it’s unfair, unethical, etc. It is overall better for society as whole when both parents support and take care of a child; and it will never change. Deal with it.
    Bullshit. It would be overall better for society if all parents abandoned their children to "orphanages", where SPECIALISTS would raise them to be proper citizens - proper members of society. Because let's be frank here - most parents SUCK at parenting.

  3. #1823
    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    Bullshit. It would be overall better for society if all parents abandoned their children to "orphanages", where SPECIALISTS would raise them to be proper citizens - proper members of society. Because let's be frank here - most parents SUCK at parenting.
    You actually think Orphanages are better at parenting than most parents?

  4. #1824
    I have an opinion on this which I coincidentally recently typed out in another thread before I saw this one. Just going to quickly copy-paste what I wrote there since I feel it really applies well to what my response would/should be in this thread:



    "At the end of the day, this issue at its core is not about men, women, children or sexism.

    It is about leeches, and the flawed legal system that protects, supports and favors them and their leeching process. This needs to be looked at and changed. The system must ensure that both parents contribute a "fair and reasonable share" to the child as a cost of having him/her.

    The father should be able to check what his money is being spent on and hold his ex legally accountable if he discovers that it is being squandered on personal luxury rather than the child's present and future essentials.

    Also, this also raises the question of "unwanted" kids. If the mother doesn't want the responsibilities, financial or otherwise, of raising children she has protection in the form of the option to have an abortion when she learns of the pregnancy. There needs to be a similar option of protection for men who wish the same, namely 'legal abortion'. Whereby if a man does not wish to have an unborn child or has deliberately not been made aware of the pregnancy, he has the option of legally opting out of fatherhood where he relinquishes both responsibility of the child and his rights as a father. If the mother chooses to have the child in this case she will be the one solely responsible (financially or otherwise) for him/her."

  5. #1825
    Elemental Lord Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majad View Post
    You actually think Orphanages are better at parenting than most parents?
    You missed the quote marks around "orphanages"?

    For society it would be better to raise all kids in a specialized institution. The closest thing we have now to that is orphanages - but orphanages have different purpose from what I'm talking about. Orphanage just provides basic support and looks for new "parents" for kids.
    I'm talking about "nursery + kinder-garden + school = member of society" kind of institution. The institution that takes full care of children. As in parenting. But done by specialists.

    Most parents suck at parenting. Trained specialists would do it way better. For society, that is.

  6. #1826
    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    You missed the quote marks around "orphanages"?

    For society it would be better to raise all kids in a specialized institution. The closest thing we have now to that is orphanages - but orphanages have different purpose from what I'm talking about. Orphanage just provides basic support and looks for new "parents" for kids.
    I'm talking about "nursery + kinder-garden + school = member of society" kind of institution. The institution that takes full care of children. As in parenting. But done by specialists.

    Most parents suck at parenting. Trained specialists would do it way better. For society, that is.
    Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no.

  7. #1827
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    Didn't we already put this discussion to rest? o.x
    Quote Originally Posted by Laraven View Post
    Umm, skinny guys with abs are like a fat girl with big boobs. It don't really count.
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  8. #1828
    Quote Originally Posted by Xanjori View Post
    Bullshit, my mother died when I was 2 and my father managed just fine. It wasnt easy for either of us I suppose, I would get dropped off at a daycare centre at 7am and picked up around 5pm, but he was able to work and look after me, during the summer holidays I spent time with my cousins. Even better, my dad remarried and had another child, the women then decided one day she wasnt happy and just left, my dad had to pay child support. That was great for me! Suddenly we had even less money around and all the school trips my friends were going on I wasnt going on, dont talk shit about how it makes it better for everyone. That shit didnt make our life any better at all, I didnt see anyone giving my dad money when he was raising me, but the minute then woman leaves and takes a child with her its suddenly my dads responsibility to pay?

    There is nothing fair in that system, to anyone.
    He probably raised you on your own, but had help with money to pay for the daycare (shit's expensive) or had a very, very good job and was lucky/ skilled to have a job that could afford the expense of raising a kid on a single income. Most single parents don't have that option.

    the "shit about how it makes everything better" is in regards to THAT child. not any other children. not all children. not the parent paying.

  9. #1829
    Bloodsail Admiral BananaInsane's Avatar
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    As a male, no I do not think so. It's the female who has to go through the downsides of being pregnant and breastfeed the child 24/7. BUT I do think, like has been mentioned in this thread, that he must have the choice of taking the role as the father/upbringer without repercussions.

    The one downside to that is that there will probably be an increase in moms singlehandedledly bring up the child. So I'm not super sure about my last point with my limited knowledge.
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  10. #1830
    If the father agrees to sign a legally binding document that states he will be personally responsible for the child till said child is 16-18 I don't see why not.

    Women have to much control over children as it is.

  11. #1831
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaInsane View Post
    As a male, no I do not think so. It's the female who has to go through the downsides of being pregnant and breastfeed the child 24/7. BUT I do think, like has been mentioned in this thread, that he must have the choice of taking the role as the father/upbringer without repercussions.

    The one downside to that is that there will probably be an increase in moms singlehandedledly bring up the child. So I'm not super sure about my last point with my limited knowledge.
    She has to put up with few months of being pregnant in exchange for a new life, and once she gives birth it's no longer her responisibility. So I don't really think they're in that bad situation.

  12. #1832
    Fluffy Kitten Cambria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umchilli View Post
    She has to put up with few months of being pregnant in exchange for a new life, and once she gives birth it's no longer her responisibility. So I don't really think they're in that bad situation.
    I don't really think you're taking into account everything that goes into pregnancy. Nothing is more horrifying to me than having my hormones already completely fucked while having to carry to term a baby a guy I slept with is forcing me to carry that I don't want. Mentally, emotionally, and physically, no person should have to go through that.

  13. #1833
    Quote Originally Posted by Myrrar View Post
    I don't really think you're taking into account everything that goes into pregnancy. Nothing is more horrifying to me than having my hormones already completely fucked while having to carry to term a baby a guy I slept with is forcing me to carry that I don't want. Mentally, emotionally, and physically, no person should have to go through that.
    I'd agree if it was some random guy you don't care about, but since he's the father that means that two of you would be really close, and if a woman wouldn't like the guy at that point, it would be probably because he forced her to give a birth and otherwise she'd like him so I think it's unfair to say she's giving birth to someone she's not in good relations with.

    But if women have absolute decisions over abortion, father should have the ability to give up all responsibilities towards the child if the mother decides to keep it and he wants an abortion.
    Last edited by Umchilli; 2012-12-09 at 09:00 PM.

  14. #1834
    Question: Should father have any say about abortion?
    Answer: No.

    First giving the father say in a abortion would be unconstitutional so it would never ever happen. Second that idea would turn women in to second class citizens. Third that would set a predicted to further reduce the rights of every woman in America. Forth do you guys understand how complicated changing that would be. If the father can stop a abortion then can he make the mother have one if she does not want to. How would the father know he is the father. Does the mother now have to undergo a invasive medical procedure to prove paternity because a man accuses her of having his kid. Are abortion providers going to keep all the body fluids after a abortion in case of a legal challenge by a man claiming to be the father. That is just the few I can think of off the top of my head. Too many dudes on the internet forums. They come up with such silly ideas.
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  15. #1835
    Stood in the Fire raechuul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umchilli View Post
    She has to put up with few months of being pregnant in exchange for a new life, and once she gives birth it's no longer her responisibility.
    Assuming she puts the child up for adoption after it's born...

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  16. #1836
    Quote Originally Posted by raechuul View Post
    Assuming she puts the child up for adoption after it's born...
    The idea is that a father would sign a legally binding documents that he would take care of the child from the birth, so if he wanted to he'd have a choice.

  17. #1837
    Stood in the Fire raechuul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umchilli View Post
    The idea is that a father would sign a legally binding documents that he would take care of the child from the birth, so if he wanted to he'd have a choice.
    While I think that is partially a good idea, I still see so many flaws. Abusing that and "forcing" the woman to carry your child, is the main concern. Obviously there should have been some sort of protection or maybe several kinds (pill, condom, etc.), but I still think it should be mainly a woman's decision. I hate to pull the biology card but she is still the one carrying the child and going through all the morning sickness and pain.

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  18. #1838
    I don't think, as a man, that men should have a say in the final decision on abortion. I do think, however, that it's right for men to offer their opinion. If it was me I'd tell the woman carrying my child that it was her body and I'd stand by her decision and support it.

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  19. #1839
    I am Murloc! Tiili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umchilli View Post
    I'd agree if it was some random guy you don't care about, but since he's the father that means that two of you would be really close, and if a woman wouldn't like the guy at that point, it would be probably because he forced her to give a birth and otherwise she'd like him so I think it's unfair to say she's giving birth to someone she's not in good relations with.
    You know, if someone did that to me I'd probably end up hurting him real bad and then terminate the pregnancy or myself, either way, no child for him. Nobody controls my body other than myself, had I known a guy would be such a control freak when I met him I would not get together with him in the first place.

    Arrogance is all I can say about wanting to control someone elses body/life to that point.
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  20. #1840
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiili View Post
    You know, if someone did that to me I'd probably end up hurting him real bad and then terminate the pregnancy or myself, either way, no child for him. Nobody controls my body other than myself, had I known a guy would be such a control freak when I met him I would not get together with him in the first place.

    Arrogance is all I can say about wanting to control someone elses body/life to that point.
    Your reply is THE definition of selfishness and arrogance. There a name for women like you but I don't think it's appropriate for this forum.

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