Should father have any say about abortion?

[Vokal]

I have an opinion on this which I coincidentally recently typed out in another thread before I saw this one. Just going to quickly copy-paste what I wrote there since I feel it really applies well to what my response would/should be in this thread:



"At the end of the day, this issue at its core is not about men, women, children or sexism.

It is about leeches, and the flawed legal system that protects, supports and favors them and their leeching process. This needs to be looked at and changed. The system must ensure that both parents contribute a "fair and reasonable share" to the child as a cost of having him/her.

The father should be able to check what his money is being spent on and hold his ex legally accountable if he discovers that it is being squandered on personal luxury rather than the child's present and future essentials.

Also, this also raises the question of "unwanted" kids. If the mother doesn't want the responsibilities, financial or otherwise, of raising children she has protection in the form of the option to have an abortion when she learns of the pregnancy. There needs to be a similar option of protection for men who wish the same, namely 'legal abortion'. Whereby if a man does not wish to have an unborn child or has deliberately not been made aware of the pregnancy, he has the option of legally opting out of fatherhood where he relinquishes both responsibility of the child and his rights as a father. If the mother chooses to have the child in this case she will be the one solely responsible (financially or otherwise) for him/her."

[Elim Garak]

You actually think Orphanages are better at parenting than most parents?

You missed the quote marks around "orphanages"?

For society it would be better to raise all kids in a specialized institution. The closest thing we have now to that is orphanages - but orphanages have different purpose from what I'm talking about. Orphanage just provides basic support and looks for new "parents" for kids.
I'm talking about "nursery + kinder-garden + school = member of society" kind of institution. The institution that takes full care of children. As in parenting. But done by specialists.

Most parents suck at parenting. Trained specialists would do it way better. For society, that is.

[Deleted]

You missed the quote marks around "orphanages"?

For society it would be better to raise all kids in a specialized institution. The closest thing we have now to that is orphanages - but orphanages have different purpose from what I'm talking about. Orphanage just provides basic support and looks for new "parents" for kids.
I'm talking about "nursery + kinder-garden + school = member of society" kind of institution. The institution that takes full care of children. As in parenting. But done by specialists.

Most parents suck at parenting. Trained specialists would do it way better. For society, that is.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no.

[Deleted]

Didn't we already put this discussion to rest? o.x

[Vanyali]

Bullshit, my mother died when I was 2 and my father managed just fine. It wasnt easy for either of us I suppose, I would get dropped off at a daycare centre at 7am and picked up around 5pm, but he was able to work and look after me, during the summer holidays I spent time with my cousins. Even better, my dad remarried and had another child, the women then decided one day she wasnt happy and just left, my dad had to pay child support. That was great for me! Suddenly we had even less money around and all the school trips my friends were going on I wasnt going on, dont talk shit about how it makes it better for everyone. That shit didnt make our life any better at all, I didnt see anyone giving my dad money when he was raising me, but the minute then woman leaves and takes a child with her its suddenly my dads responsibility to pay?

There is nothing fair in that system, to anyone.

He probably raised you on your own, but had help with money to pay for the daycare (shit's expensive) or had a very, very good job and was lucky/ skilled to have a job that could afford the expense of raising a kid on a single income. Most single parents don't have that option.

the "shit about how it makes everything better" is in regards to THAT child. not any other children. not all children. not the parent paying.

[BananaInsane]

As a male, no I do not think so. It's the female who has to go through the downsides of being pregnant and breastfeed the child 24/7. BUT I do think, like has been mentioned in this thread, that he must have the choice of taking the role as the father/upbringer without repercussions.

The one downside to that is that there will probably be an increase in moms singlehandedledly bring up the child. So I'm not super sure about my last point with my limited knowledge.

[steveyboy]

If the father agrees to sign a legally binding document that states he will be personally responsible for the child till said child is 16-18 I don't see why not.

Women have to much control over children as it is.

[Deleted]

As a male, no I do not think so. It's the female who has to go through the downsides of being pregnant and breastfeed the child 24/7. BUT I do think, like has been mentioned in this thread, that he must have the choice of taking the role as the father/upbringer without repercussions.

The one downside to that is that there will probably be an increase in moms singlehandedledly bring up the child. So I'm not super sure about my last point with my limited knowledge.

She has to put up with few months of being pregnant in exchange for a new life, and once she gives birth it's no longer her responisibility. So I don't really think they're in that bad situation.

[Myrrar]

She has to put up with few months of being pregnant in exchange for a new life, and once she gives birth it's no longer her responisibility. So I don't really think they're in that bad situation.

I don't really think you're taking into account everything that goes into pregnancy. Nothing is more horrifying to me than having my hormones already completely fucked while having to carry to term a baby a guy I slept with is forcing me to carry that I don't want. Mentally, emotionally, and physically, no person should have to go through that.

[Deleted]

I don't really think you're taking into account everything that goes into pregnancy. Nothing is more horrifying to me than having my hormones already completely fucked while having to carry to term a baby a guy I slept with is forcing me to carry that I don't want. Mentally, emotionally, and physically, no person should have to go through that.

I'd agree if it was some random guy you don't care about, but since he's the father that means that two of you would be really close, and if a woman wouldn't like the guy at that point, it would be probably because he forced her to give a birth and otherwise she'd like him so I think it's unfair to say she's giving birth to someone she's not in good relations with.

But if women have absolute decisions over abortion, father should have the ability to give up all responsibilities towards the child if the mother decides to keep it and he wants an abortion.

[beanz]

Question: Should father have any say about abortion?
Answer: No.

First giving the father say in a abortion would be unconstitutional so it would never ever happen. Second that idea would turn women in to second class citizens. Third that would set a predicted to further reduce the rights of every woman in America. Forth do you guys understand how complicated changing that would be. If the father can stop a abortion then can he make the mother have one if she does not want to. How would the father know he is the father. Does the mother now have to undergo a invasive medical procedure to prove paternity because a man accuses her of having his kid. Are abortion providers going to keep all the body fluids after a abortion in case of a legal challenge by a man claiming to be the father. That is just the few I can think of off the top of my head. Too many dudes on the internet forums. They come up with such silly ideas.

[raechuul]

She has to put up with few months of being pregnant in exchange for a new life, and once she gives birth it's no longer her responisibility.

Assuming she puts the child up for adoption after it's born...

[Deleted]

Assuming she puts the child up for adoption after it's born...

The idea is that a father would sign a legally binding documents that he would take care of the child from the birth, so if he wanted to he'd have a choice.

[raechuul]

The idea is that a father would sign a legally binding documents that he would take care of the child from the birth, so if he wanted to he'd have a choice.

While I think that is partially a good idea, I still see so many flaws. Abusing that and "forcing" the woman to carry your child, is the main concern. Obviously there should have been some sort of protection or maybe several kinds (pill, condom, etc.), but I still think it should be mainly a woman's decision. I hate to pull the biology card but she is still the one carrying the child and going through all the morning sickness and pain.

[Deleted]

I'd agree if it was some random guy you don't care about, but since he's the father that means that two of you would be really close, and if a woman wouldn't like the guy at that point, it would be probably because he forced her to give a birth and otherwise she'd like him so I think it's unfair to say she's giving birth to someone she's not in good relations with.

You know, if someone did that to me I'd probably end up hurting him real bad and then terminate the pregnancy or myself, either way, no child for him. Nobody controls my body other than myself, had I known a guy would be such a control freak when I met him I would not get together with him in the first place.

Arrogance is all I can say about wanting to control someone elses body/life to that point.

[Deleted]

You know, if someone did that to me I'd probably end up hurting him real bad and then terminate the pregnancy or myself, either way, no child for him. Nobody controls my body other than myself, had I known a guy would be such a control freak when I met him I would not get together with him in the first place.

Arrogance is all I can say about wanting to control someone elses body/life to that point.

Your reply is THE definition of selfishness and arrogance. There a name for women like you but I don't think it's appropriate for this forum.

[Deleted]

Your reply is THE definition of selfishness and arrogance.

No, you believing you should have control over someone elses body is. Just because the child contains your genetic code does not give you the right to control anothers body.

[Myrrar]

I'd agree if it was some random guy you don't care about, but since he's the father that means that two of you would be really close, and if a woman wouldn't like the guy at that point, it would be probably because he forced her to give a birth and otherwise she'd like him so I think it's unfair to say she's giving birth to someone she's not in good relations with.

But if women have absolute decisions over abortion, father should have the ability to give up all responsibilities towards the child if the mother decides to keep it and he wants an abortion.

If it was a good relationship he wouldn't make her have a baby she doesn't want. We aren't talking about a couple here. Couples that care about each other know beforehand if they want children or not. We are talking about accidents, one night stands, casual sex, and so on.

No man would tell the woman he loves she has to have his baby when she doesn't want it. And the 'men should be able to drop the mom/kid before the abortion time frame is over without being stuck paying for it' discussion happened many pages ago, and almost everyone agreed. That's not what's being discussed now.

[Deleted]

If it was a good relationship he wouldn't make her have a baby she doesn't want. We aren't talking about a couple here. Couples that care about each other know beforehand if they want children or not. We are talking about accidents, one night stands, casual sex, and so on.

No man would tell the woman he loves she has to have his baby when she doesn't want it. And the 'men should be able to drop the mom/kid before the abortion time frame is over without being stuck paying for it' discussion happened many pages ago, and almost everyone agreed. That's not what's being discussed now.

What about relationships in which they both want the baby and then after the woman gets pregnant she changes her mind and thinks it's not for her? I really can't have any sympathy there.

[fizzbob]

No, you believing you should have control over someone elses body is. Just because the child contains your genetic code does not give you the right to control anothers body.

then you are also saying it's not fair for a man who DOESN'T want a child to have to support the child when the woman chooses to have it. right now men have no choices after conception, women do.

this is why i laugh at all equality bullshit. nobody has EVER ONCE IN HUMAN HISTORY wanted equality, they've wanted the upperhand and they know that sounds bad, so they say they want equality

equality is men choosing not to have to support a child that the woman could have had aborted if she'd chose to, and it's men not having to abide by the archaic 'don't hit women' rule that's been around forever

equality is all the bad shit too