Should father have any say about abortion?

[anisadora]

This explains your views on the subject at hand.

No, it doesnt. It is still ultimately a female's body and her body alone. A fetus is not a baby until it reaches the right age, and development. A fetus is a parasite, and you cannot force a human being to carry a parasite around. Child support from a man who never wanted the child always was and always will be bullocks. That isn't the issue this thread is about. This thread is about whether or not a man has any right to dictate what a woman does with her body, and he doesnt. A females body isnt inferior to yours in any way whatsoever. In fact, you could say it's superior, since yall seem to have baby-envy. So go find a willing female to carry your spawn, or adopt.

[Elim Garak]

THAT is precisely why you are so incredibly creepy. That this issue boils down to you.... about money? I dont give a crap how much money you want to throw at someone... thats covering up the fact that youre trying to FORCE that person to do something to their body that THEY dont want to do.

I dated a guy, and willingly had sex with him. We had the baby conversation. He told me he WOULD make me have his children. He actually raped me once after one of the baby conversations and I told him that I didnt want a child, saying while he did so that he would make me carry his... But hey, at least in your world, I'd get a little bit of money out of it if he forced me into whelping his rape baby into existence as well.

I thought it was pretty clear that if i'm talking about child support - means I'm talking about a situation in which a woman WANTS a baby but father doesn't...

In this situation father should have a say if he has to pay for child support.

In your situation - in "my world" - father shouldn't have a say.

Easy analogy. Contract signing.

A woman wants to have a baby and father doesn't - woman right now basically "puts a gun to father's head and makes him sign the contract".
This is wrong.

A woman doesn't want to have a baby but father does - woman can refuse to sign the contract.
This is right.

[Deleted]

Do you think that the world is magic land where we can avoid everything bad in such a situation?

No, thats why we should just totally ignore their feelings right

[Deleted]

No, thats why we should just totally ignore their feelings right

If a man wants a child then he should find a woman who is willing to give birth to a child.

[Docdruid]

This is a very hard subject.
My feelings as a father are that Yes, we should be heard, I have feelings, and after all that baby is part of me, on the other hand, it is the woman that will risk her life, her health to carry that baby.
I am against abortion, but I am also against to telling a Woman what to do with her body, so I have to conclude this is to far complicated for me, as a Father I would love to have a say, I think we deserve it, but in the end should be a woman decision.

[LiiLoSNK]

No, it doesnt. It is still ultimately a female's body and her body alone. A fetus is not a baby until it reaches the right age, and development. A fetus is a parasite, and you cannot force a human being to carry a parasite around. Child support from a man who never wanted the child always was and always will be bullocks. That isn't the issue this thread is about. This thread is about whether or not a man has any right to dictate what a woman does with her body, and he doesnt. A females body isnt inferior to yours in any way whatsoever. In fact, you could say it's superior, since yall seem to have baby-envy. So go find a willing female to carry your spawn, or adopt.

Alrighty, but now, I don't think anyone in here is really debating the issue of "is it legit to rape a baby into someone and then force them to keep it". That's you arguing to yourself over unfortunate past events. The main argument here is that, sure, you should not be able to force a woman to carry your baby, but a woman should not have the choice to keep a man's child, just because it's being held in her body. He should have the right to suggest in abortion simply because it's not her baby alone. It's a joint effort.

[gnomergon]

Nah. If we're aiming for something we should aim for scientists to shrink the baby down and put it in the man. He can then push it out his urethra and cause all the delicious tearing, rips, scars, stretchmarks and pain to himself that he wanted to inflict on his unwilling partner. Earn that baby, biotch.

why so hostile and fucking creepy? in my scenario there would be no unwilling partner, just an opting out egg donor and and opting in surrogate mother, who would get paid. misandric, much?

[Deleted]

If a man wants a child then he should find a woman who is willing to give birth to a child.

When these things happen by accident i wonder how many of them actually want a child right then and there. if they have even discussed it.
I kind of doubt that. even though they should have discussed.

[anisadora]

Alrighty, but now, I don't think anyone in here is really debating the issue of "is it legit to rape a baby into someone and then force them to keep it". That's you arguing to yourself over unfortunate past events. The main argument here is that, sure, you should not be able to force a woman to carry your baby, but a woman should not have the choice to keep a man's child, just because it's being held in her body. He should have the right to suggest in abortion simply because it's not her baby alone. It's a joint effort.

How is rape very different from forcing a female to carry a parasite? In both cases it's because "he really wanted it" - in both cases he is doing something forcibly to her body.

[GuiltyCrown]

Alrighty, but now, I don't think anyone in here is really debating the issue of "is it legit to rape a baby into someone and then force them to keep it". That's you arguing to yourself over unfortunate past events. The main argument here is that, sure, you should not be able to force a woman to carry your baby, but a woman should not have the choice to keep a man's child, just because it's being held in her body. He should have the right to suggest in abortion simply because it's not her baby alone. It's a joint effort.

Not sure why you would argue about a woman keeping another man's seed and birthing the child when he doesn't want it to happen (due to financial issues among other things).

The guy should've known that it was a possibility in almost any case that he would impregnate the woman (accident or not). If he's not educated to not realize that it would've been a possibility, then it's going to be one hell of a wake up call for that idiot.

[anisadora]

why so hostile and fucking creepy? in my scenario there would be no unwilling partner, just an opting out egg donor and and opting in surrogate mother, who would get paid. misandric, much?

Why so hostile? Because that's what the people in here are willing on unwilling people who just happen to get knocked up - willingly or no. Theyre willing the pain, suffering, agony, scars and possible death on the female.

[Deleted]

When these things happen by accident i wonder how many of them actually want a child right then and there. if they have even discussed it.
I kind of doubt that. even though they should have discussed.

Uh, you don't discuss things with your partner? I know my bf wouldn't want a kid, atleast not now. He got nervous when I even brought it up first time thinking I wanted kids.

[Sunseeker]

How is rape very different from forcing a female to carry a parasite? In both cases it's because "he really wanted it" - in both cases he is doing something forcibly to her body.

Because you willingly had sex with him. A possible consequence of which is having a baby which is legally BOTH of yours, a possibility that is always an accepted risk when having sex, even protected sex. Why should a woman have sole direction to kill the future-child simply because she gestates it?

[Deleted]

Because you willingly had sex with him. A possible consequence of which is having a baby which is legally BOTH of yours, a possibility that is always an accepted risk when having sex, even protected sex. Why should a woman have sole direction to kill the future-child simply because she gestates it?

Because it is her body. The father(s) on the other hand should have the rights to sign away any financial responsibilities towards the woman/child if she keeps it against his will.

[LiiLoSNK]

How is rape very different from forcing a female to carry a parasite? In both cases it's because "he really wanted it" - in both cases he is doing something forcibly to her body.

I'm saying no one want's to force a woman to dish out a baby if she doesn't want to. No one is arguing that so now I'm lost at what your message is.

Not sure why you would argue about a woman keeping another man's seed and birthing the child when he doesn't want it to happen (due to financial issues among other things).

The guy should've known that it was a possibility in almost any case that he would impregnate the woman (accident or not). If he's not educated to not realize that it would've been a possibility, then it's going to be one hell of a wake up call for that idiot.

I agree that this is usually only a common situation for "stupid trailer trash", but as a human being it still feels F'ed to see someone get trapped into such a life long commitment. Chances are not only the man, but the kid as well are gonna have a pretty shitty life at this point. I just think that at the end of the day, if both people aren't 100% sure on pumping out a kid, then it shouldn't be brought into existence.

[Deleted]

Uh, you don't discuss things with your partner? I know my bf wouldn't want a kid, atleast not now. He got nervous when I even brought it up first time thinking I wanted kids.

Well im not talking about me personally but yes we did discuss these things when we started being intimate with eachother.
But i don't really think much couples do when their relationship hasn't been going for a long time.
My fiance made it pretty clear to me and his thoughts about abortions he is against it. I wasn't for it but i never really thought about it that much untill then.

[anisadora]

Because you willingly had sex with him. A possible consequence of which is having a baby which is legally BOTH of yours, a possibility that is always an accepted risk when having sex, even protected sex. Why should a woman have sole direction to kill the future-child simply because she gestates it?

This is exactly the type of logic that stems from someone using the icon stating theyre slective of the reality they accept, and that life is always better with more boobies.

Did you miss the part about a female owning her own body? Did you miss the female rights movement? The fact that females can now vote? We dont own slaves anymore, either, if you missed that.

Giving consent to a sexual encounter is giving consent to a sexual encounter. It is not signing up for the pain, agony, life changing issues, stretchmarks and possible death associated with carrying a fetus to term. A woman has "sole direction" because it is HER body that the fetus stays in. It is her body that goes through the changes, and the smallest rights and privileges of the woman trumps the highest rights of the fetus.

Carry your own spawn, get a surrogate, or adopt.

[Deleted]

This is exactly the type of logic that stems from someone using the icon stating theyre slective of the reality they accept, and that life is always better with more boobies.

Did you miss the part about a female owning her own body? Did you miss the female rights movement? The fact that females can now vote? We dont own slaves anymore, either, if you missed that.

Giving consent to a sexual encounter is giving consent to a sexual encounter. It is not signing up for the pain, agony, life changing issues, stretchmarks and possible death associated with carrying a fetus to term. A woman has "sole direction" because it is HER body that the fetus stays in. It is her body that goes through the changes, and the smallest rights and privileges of the woman trumps the highest rights of the fetus.

Carry your own spawn, get a surrogate, or adopt.

If guys could only say Then you should have aborted it When it comes to paying child support.

[Deleted]

Well im not talking about me personally but yes we did discuss these things when we started being intimate with eachother.
But i don't really think much couples do when their relationship hasn't been going for a long time.
My fiance made it pretty clear to me and his thoughts about abortions he is against it. I wasn't for it but i never really thought about it that much untill then.

Then my question is: Should the law change just because people are either ignorant, stupid or just careless?

The only change I'd want to see is regarding child support and being able to opt out of it.

[Mumba]

Sorry, did I miss something? When did having a child become a human right?

On the other hand
----- http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml
Article 3.
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

Article 4.
No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.

Article 5.
No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
-----
Sure, number 3 can be debated if a fetus is included there or not, but this is about wether the woman has her right over her own body or not.

Men should not have a legal say on abortation. Instead of forcing someone to endure a pregnancy there is always the option of adoption, or finding someone who wants a child.