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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by TechGnosis View Post
    Ok, I can KIND of understand why H.Kilrak is above everything but the claws (due to the sha-touched gem, which is worth 550 agi), but why is Elegion and Scimitar of the Seven Stars so high as well? No Sha-Touched Socket, heck Elegion doesn't even HAVE a socket at all.
    A lot of it I think is due to such a high value of stamina... if you lower that, then the secondary stats and agi really begin to push a difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaiadam View Post
    Some tanking thoughts that you might wish to consider, AMR people - most likely counter to many suggestions here. Then again I've tanked and I've killed heroic Sha of Fear so what do I know, right?
    You also play a Guardian / Feral druid, not a monk.
    Last edited by The Mister Madgod; 2012-12-07 at 02:24 AM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    You also play a Guardian / Feral druid, not a monk.
    In addition to my Druid, I also play a monk and rogue at heroic levels as well. Furthermore, my points are about tanking in general. There's a reason guardians are not better tanks than warriors/paladins despite taking a third less overall auto attack damage.
    Last edited by kaiadam; 2012-12-07 at 02:57 AM.

  3. #43
    Field Marshal R0ninX3ph's Avatar
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    The simple fact that I see is that near every theory crafter out there working on Brewmasters goes against what AMR has done with weights in regards to Stamina. It is fine for AMR to come out and say "we believe this is correct" but the proviso is that they are going against what most other sites say in regards to Brewmasters. They are well within their right to do that, as people can ignore it as much as they can take it as gospel.

  4. #44
    So there's a lot of good information here, but some of it is conflicting... I'm trying to distill all of this into some actionable items to improve the weights on AMR.

    Firstly, I haven't heard any arguments that really say stamina is not the best way to increase your ability to survive spike damage. Most people are saying that surviving spike damage isn't that big a deal right now, so why gear for it? I really have no good way to assess how true that is or not. I would also think it depends highly on the quality of your raid team.

    Secondly, from what Madgod and kaiadam have said, you don't need any haste to reach 100% up-time on Shuffle, and also use Guard and Purifying Brew. Getting more haste allows you to use extra Purifying Brew, maybe some more healing abilities, and do more damage. So when evaluating haste, you don't really need to think about Shuffle at all. Instead you should be valuing haste for the extra PB, or whatever other extra abilities you may be able to use. Has anyone done such an analysis?

    If that statement is true (and it is possible that I just read your posts incorrectly), then there really is no soft cap on haste at all. The idea of a soft cap on haste comes from a perspective that some other chi-consumer has a higher priority than blackout kick. But if you change your perspective and say that blackout kick has the highest priority for consuming chi... I don't see where there is a haste cap anymore... PB doesn't have a cooldown, so you can't really have too much chi, right? Or am I not understanding how that works?

    So both Madgod and kaiadam make pretty good arguments for crit being a solid stat. (Our current weights already reflect this.)

    In summary so far:
    - Many monks feel that they do not need extra stamina to survive. It really has nothing to do with anything special about monks -- e.g. gearing for some other stat doesn't give better EH gains than stamina -- people just don't seem to be having trouble with dying. Well, at least the people in this thread.

    - So far, there doesn't seem to be a compelling case for a haste cap, and it seems probable that our default weight on haste is too high. Does some experienced monk theorycrafter want to try and answer this question: assuming that even with no haste I will prioritize shuffle up-time, if I add 10% haste to my gear, how many (and which) extra abilities will I get over the course of a fight, and what is a rough % reduction in total damage taken (and/or % increase in total healing done to myself) that I can expect? With the answer to that question, we can come up with a proper weight for haste.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    A lot of it I think is due to such a high value of stamina... if you lower that, then the secondary stats and agi really begin to push a difference
    Oh yeah, I forgot to mention I edited the weights to 0.25 for stamina, and it still does that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yellowfive View Post
    - So far, there doesn't seem to be a compelling case for a haste cap, and it seems probable that our default weight on haste is too high. Does some experienced monk theorycrafter want to try and answer this question: assuming that even with no haste I will prioritize shuffle up-time, if I add 10% haste to my gear, how many (and which) extra abilities will I get over the course of a fight, and what is a rough % reduction in total damage taken (and/or % increase in total healing done to myself) that I can expect? With the answer to that question, we can come up with a proper weight for haste.
    Haste also causes us to regenerate energy faster. Faster energy regen allows us to use our combo-point abilities more often, which is key to our survival (on top of the Shuffle effects)
    Last edited by TechGnosis; 2012-12-07 at 05:31 AM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Yellowfive View Post
    Secondly, from what Madgod and kaiadam have said, you don't need any haste to reach 100% up-time on Shuffle, and also use Guard and Purifying Brew. Getting more haste allows you to use extra Purifying Brew, maybe some more healing abilities, and do more damage. So when evaluating haste, you don't really need to think about Shuffle at all. Instead you should be valuing haste for the extra PB, or whatever other extra abilities you may be able to use. Has anyone done such an analysis?
    Only in theory. In reality, there's a lot of things that can mess with that and lower your uptime. In reality you do need haste in order to have acceptable chi generation and acceptable uptime, and a comfortable feel, unless you like crawling energy regen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yellowfive View Post
    If that statement is true (and it is possible that I just read your posts incorrectly), then there really is no soft cap on haste at all. The idea of a soft cap on haste comes from a perspective that some other chi-consumer has a higher priority than blackout kick. But if you change your perspective and say that blackout kick has the highest priority for consuming chi... I don't see where there is a haste cap anymore... PB doesn't have a cooldown, so you can't really have too much chi, right? Or am I not understanding how that works?
    You don't understand how it works. The more you use PB, the less effective each PB becomes, because you're purifying less damage, as you're giving it less time for the DoT to build up. Therefore, there is a point where crit will reduce more damage, hence the haste "cap". Crit is better than haste for more DPS output and EB uptime, and crit becomes better than more energy since that energy would only go to more unnecessary PB's.
    Last edited by The Mister Madgod; 2012-12-07 at 08:18 AM.

  7. #47
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    These are the kind of discussions I love =) Will be chime back in tomorrow with my feedback. Yellowfive I'll try to put it in a rather conceptual basis with a programming mindset tomorrow when I have time. I work for a software company so understand the technical difficulties you all face. My old main was a DK (Daciana - Stormrage) and I've had to go heavy stam in the past so I'm not exactly someone that is against the idea.

    I understand the STR + gem weapon thing since it's a system based on weights, but from a mitigation concept BrM's are way more complicated than any tank I've played.

    Will add that any other BrM can call foul on my opinions if they disagree. I've only done normal mode raids so will differ to anything specific to heroics.
    Last edited by SurrealNight; 2012-12-07 at 07:07 AM.

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  8. #48
    Yeah brewmasters seem like a huge pain to do theory for... I wish that I had a couple extra days to write a simulator like I wrote for bear druids in cataclysm -- that would really help out here.

    I would have to think some more about the idea that PB becomes less effective the more often you use it... there certainly is a limit, you can't use it if you have no stagger DoT, so at most, once after every time you get hit with staggerable damage. But up until that limit... there is no discontinuity, or point where haste takes a sudden and dramatic drop in value (from the perspective of turning your haste into more PB). It is the case that your damage reduced per chi spent on PB goes down if you use it more often... but it goes down gradually. You can't really slap a "break point" on there when the decay is very gradual. If you could realistically reach the point where you can hit PB immediately after every single staggerable attack... that could be a theoretical break point. I don't know if that's even possible though... and it still doesn't take into account what else you could move to spending your chi on, which would "smooth" that discontinuity somewhat. Any thoughts?

    Or taking another approach, say you put a lower limit on how often you use PB to keep it's value-per-chi high. I'm assuming that extra chi could be used for healing? How significant is that extra healing?

    And just to be clear -- I'm not saying that no haste break point exists, I just don't think it's as cut-and-dry as it seems... we have spent a ton of time writing optimizers for every spec, and one thing we have seen across many specs is a tendency to overvalue haste break points. We saw it with DPS casters, and hunters in particular. In the end... only healers ended up really need to gear for particular values of haste. So it's possible that we have another case here, but it warrants some extra examination before jumping to that conclusion.

    It seems that if this discussion does move towards "yes, there is in fact a very real haste break point," I feel that it's going to be a "rough" value -- perhaps something that could be implemented in a less-precise (and faster) way, not like the very specific values that healers try to achieve.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Yellowfive View Post
    Yeah brewmasters seem like a huge pain to do theory for... I wish that I had a couple extra days to write a simulator like I wrote for bear druids in cataclysm -- that would really help out here.

    I would have to think some more about the idea that PB becomes less effective the more often you use it... there certainly is a limit, you can't use it if you have no stagger DoT, so at most, once after every time you get hit with staggerable damage. But up until that limit... there is no discontinuity, or point where haste takes a sudden and dramatic drop in value (from the perspective of turning your haste into more PB). It is the case that your damage reduced per chi spent on PB goes down if you use it more often... but it goes down gradually. You can't really slap a "break point" on there when the decay is very gradual. If you could realistically reach the point where you can hit PB immediately after every single staggerable attack... that could be a theoretical break point. I don't know if that's even possible though... and it still doesn't take into account what else you could move to spending your chi on, which would "smooth" that discontinuity somewhat. Any thoughts?
    No, you still don't understand the mechanic. For every one additional PB you use within a given timeframe, the less each one mitigates. By about 6-10 PB's per minute, the amount of damage reduced by an extra PB will be less effective than the amount of damage reduced by crit's avoidance.

    We aren't talking about the difference between each PB. We aren't discussing the absolute limit of where PB's become completely useless, and in fact, that is actually impossible to reach due to GCD limitations. We're talking the difference between X PB's damage mitigated per 1 PB vs damage mitigated via avoidance from crit. That has been theorycrafted already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yellowfive View Post
    Or taking another approach, say you put a lower limit on how often you use PB to keep it's value-per-chi high. I'm assuming that extra chi could be used for healing? How significant is that extra healing?
    Not enough to be better than the avoidance from crit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yellowfive View Post
    And just to be clear -- I'm not saying that no haste break point exists, I just don't think it's as cut-and-dry as it seems... we have spent a ton of time writing optimizers for every spec, and one thing we have seen across many specs is a tendency to overvalue haste break points. We saw it with DPS casters, and hunters in particular. In the end... only healers ended up really need to gear for particular values of haste. So it's possible that we have another case here, but it warrants some extra examination before jumping to that conclusion.

    It seems that if this discussion does move towards "yes, there is in fact a very real haste break point," I feel that it's going to be a "rough" value -- perhaps something that could be implemented in a less-precise (and faster) way, not like the very specific values that healers try to achieve.
    Of course, I don't think anyone's said that. It's highly dependent on your level of skill (shuffle uptime), how much mastery you have, and the encounter you're on. However rough values have been found based on some averages.
    Last edited by The Mister Madgod; 2012-12-07 at 09:14 AM.

  10. #50
    The Lightbringer Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnotheHuntard View Post
    I usually use askmrrobot for my reforges and gems, but since 5.1 released, its now telling me to go full stamina, gems, enchants etc. I guess what I'm asking is if anyone else is experiencing this? I mean why the sudden change. As far as I am aware I should still be going for haste right?

    Please keep the comments about me being a baddie for using askmrrobot to yourself. Thanks. =)
    You aren't a baddie for using it. They have good information. I wonder about the qualifications of those in the thread that like to badmouth AMR. Seems AMR is more credible than some random joe.

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  11. #51
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yellowfive View Post
    -Snip-
    Normal mode BrM has zero issues with spike damage, unlike my DK I don't think I had a single tank death that I was "wtf just happened to me?" type experience unlike my DK in Cata. I have always been a fan of preventing damage and CTC coverage and BrM do this beautifully while also boosting their DPS at the same time. I won't be starting heroics for a week or two but you can look at my armory and see there isn't a drop of stamina on my gear even through Empress and working on Sha. Personally I don't plan to switch to Mastery/Stam gearing at all unless I encounter clear instances of tank jibbing on heroics.

    Haste - Still think there is a gap of understanding here. Energy regen = Chi, Chi is needed to keep our main mitigation buffs (Shuffle Guard) up and fuel Purifying Brew to clear stagger, with extra going into L30 talents for extra healing. Keeping Shuffle/Guard up takes 24 Chi/min in a perfect world. The amount of Chi you need to dedicate to PB is relative to your personal gear vs fight and if it is a single tank vs a swap. "Light" stagger is very easy to heal through (HoT's usually cover it) so it's easy to gauge a fights difficulty by how often they push you into Yellow/Red stagger levels.

    At this point with the introduction of the Ascension change I think haste levels are more relative to the player than they are based on any set hard math caps. I've found 6700 (14.5 energy regen) has been a sweet spot for me. Tank swaps I'm able to build up a solid Shuffle buff and spend Chi on Chi Wave and single tank fights I'm able to fuel the more frequent needs of Purifying Brew without letting Guard/Shuffle drop.

    In regards to a cap I believe haste does have a relative cap. Having too much Chi is a waste considering you could put the resource into Crit which improves the uptime of a 20-25% dodge buff. Yes extra Chi can be funneled into the L30 healing talents but as I stated earlier I'm going to always favor gearing towards preventing damage than healing it. So haste is still technically one of our most important stats but after a certain point it's value drops off compared to crit.

    Sha is a great example of this. Thrash proc's about every 9-10 seconds which means you can have Elusive Brew up every time if your Crit is solid. Having 80%+ avoidance vs 3 melee attacks trivializes the mechanic. Tanking it has involved me watching TV and hitting my EB hotkey when DBM's timer goes off, I've actually had Dampen Harm stacks expire (45 sec buff) because Sha couldn't hit me.

    TL;DR
    - Haste does have caps but they are relative to the player and the content.
    - Stam/Mastery improve EH but also require Haste to effectively clear the stagger dot.
    - Elusive Brew is our second best mitigation mechanic, anything that allows us to improve this is good.
    Last edited by SurrealNight; 2012-12-07 at 04:22 PM.

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  12. #52
    No, you still don't understand the mechanic. For every one additional PB you use within a given timeframe, the less each one mitigates. By about 6-10 PB's per minute, the amount of damage reduced by an extra PB will be less effective than the amount of damage reduced by crit's avoidance.

    We aren't talking about the difference between each PB. We aren't discussing the absolute limit of where PB's become completely useless, and in fact, that is actually impossible to reach due to GCD limitations. We're talking the difference between X PB's damage mitigated per 1 PB vs damage mitigated via avoidance from crit. That has been theorycrafted already.
    Madgod, I'm not really following your logic here. What I described is pretty much the same exact thing that you described. Also -- saying that something "has been theorycrafted already" doesn't help me much, it would be great to summarize or point me to the very specific conclusions and discussion that led to those conclusions.

    So I don't know what the actual theoretical limit would be on PB... as you said, you need to account for GCDs consumed on other attacks and chi generators. It seems the limit will be significantly higher than the frequency with which you receive staggerable damage. This will keep the relative value of each PB pretty high I would think. So let me ask a more pointed question: what is the amount of haste that you would require to be able to keep 100% up-time on shuffle AND use PB at the maximum frequency? Is it reachable?

    Also keep in mind that I'm coming from the perspective that stagger and PB are more valuable than dodge or other sources of random damage reduction simply because they are not random. Sha of Fear could be a special case... where you want to put some extra value on avoidance. But in general I think that being able to control your mitigation is more valuable. This is why, for example, other tanking classes like paladins and warriors are favoring hit/exp or hit/exp/haste style builds. Parry and Dodge Rating are all better point-for-point in terms of total damage reduction, but we just don't care -- the better control is more valuable.

    This is why I'm hammering away at this idea -- if you think haste is good (to give you more resources to control your damage taken more), does it ever get to a point where you have so many resources to spend that you can't use them effectively? I've seen a few numbers thrown around... but nothing that is very convincing. Even if you filled every socket with haste and reforged half your gear to haste (assuming a lot of it would already have haste if you like haste), you can get what... an extra 10-12% haste? An extra 1-1.2 energy per second, or 1 extra chi every 30 seconds or so? (Did I estimate that correctly, or is there some other mechanic at work here?) Note also that a lot of your budge will go into hit/exp, since those are valuable secondary stats for chi generation also. I guess that I'm failing to see how an extra 1 chi every 30 seconds or so could ever be wasted... if you like haste, having a little more will be good for the same reason that all of your haste up to that point was good...

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Yellowfive View Post
    So let me ask a more pointed question: what is the amount of haste that you would require to be able to keep 100% up-time on shuffle AND use PB at the maximum frequency? Is it reachable?
    Every 6 seconds, you'll use: 0.75 keg smashes (gain 1.5 chi), 1 blackout kick (costs 2 chi) , X purifies, (4.25-X) jabs for a net of 0 chi. Solve for X: 1.875.

    Total energy cost = 0.75 keg smashes + 2.675 jabs = 125 energy in 6 seconds, 20.866 energy/second.

    With ascendance, this requires ~65% haste, or a rating of roughly 27600 haste rating. Not very likely to be reached, even in this expansion.

  14. #54
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    You need 24 Chi for 100% up-time of Shuffle and Guard over the course of 1 minute. Since you can do 7.5 Keg Smash a min we will just round it down and say you get 14 Chi for 280 energy. The remaining 10 Chi at 40 energy each = 400. So 680 energy or 11.33 energy regen will produce enough Chi to keep your buffs up 100%.

    How much Chi you need on top of that for PB use (which doesn't cause a GCD btw) depends on the fight. Looking at Protectors in Terrace I hit moderate stagger 14 times over 7:25 so I needed roughly 2 Chi per minute which is covered by an ER of 12.67. If I wanted to be able to safely use Chi Wave 2x a minute (just arbitrary #) on top of this or have extra for more PB I'd need 15.33.

    Now factor in that a lot of times you don't spend Chi on Guard when you are off tanking and that saves you 1.33 ER roughly on tank swaps that isn't needed or you can keep the ER the same and build up a buffer for Shuffle or do more Chi waves instead.

    So technically the Chi needs change per fight based on 1) How often you need/should clear stagger 2) single tank vs tank swap 3) how much you want to use L30 talents.

    I'm happy at 14.50 ER w/ Ascension as it allows me to budget enough Chi to do what I want on most fights (Wind Lord is a little strained) and the rest of my rating is going into Crit now for higher EB uptime.

    I understand dodge/parry isn't "reliable" mitigation but EB is a +20-25% buff and basically has an unlimited potential to improve it's uptime until you some how have enough crit to generate 1 stack per second which would effectively make our average avoidance > 80%. So improving the uptime of EB is a pretty huge deal to most BrM's since it can also be timed around specific events and used like a mini CD.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    You need 24 Chi for 100% up-time of Shuffle and Guard over the course of 1 minute. Since you can do 7.5 Keg Smash a min we will just round it down and say you get 14 Chi for 280 energy. The remaining 10 Chi at 40 energy each = 400. So 680 energy or 11.33 energy regen will produce enough Chi to keep your buffs up 100%.

    How much Chi you need on top of that for PB use (which doesn't cause a GCD btw) depends on the fight. Looking at Protectors in Terrace I hit moderate stagger 14 times over 7:25 so I needed roughly 2 Chi per minute which is covered by an ER of 12.67. If I wanted to be able to safely use Chi Wave 2x a minute (just arbitrary #) on top of this or have extra for more PB I'd need 15.33.

    Now factor in that a lot of times you don't spend Chi on Guard when you are off tanking and that saves you 1.33 ER roughly on tank swaps that isn't needed or you can keep the ER the same and build up a buffer for Shuffle or do more Chi waves instead.

    So technically the Chi needs change per fight based on 1) How often you need/should clear stagger 2) single tank vs tank swap 3) how much you want to use L30 talents.

    I'm happy at 14.50 ER w/ Ascension as it allows me to budget enough Chi to do what I want on most fights (Wind Lord is a little strained) and the rest of my rating is going into Crit now for higher EB uptime.

    I understand dodge/parry isn't "reliable" mitigation but EB is a +20-25% buff and basically has an unlimited potential to improve it's uptime until you some how have enough crit to generate 1 stack per second which would effectively make our average avoidance > 80%. So improving the uptime of EB is a pretty huge deal to most BrM's since it can also be timed around specific events and used like a mini CD.
    Purifying Brew usage is significantly more complicated than "I hit moderate stagger, I need to use it." If you use it like that, it works out real nice for the damage taken meters, which honestly is worth about as much as dirt.

    Take the example you used: protectors. There's a cleansing waters buff that you can have 100% uptime as a tank on (if Asani is alive), that not only increases healing on you by 50% but heals you for 5% health per second. I wouldn't bother purifying stagger on that fight at all as long as that buff is available, which, even if you're doing elite mode and single tanking it for whatever curious reason, means you've got a bank of stagger to work with and extra purifies.

    Other than protectors, only stoneguards and (if you're solo tanking) windlord will have something that you're tanking 100% of the time. 14/16 bosses this tier allow you tanking downtime to stack plenty of shuffle, further minimizing the benefit of extra chi. Obviously many other fights can be solo tanked but those are generally for tank dps epeen and you wouldn't purify even a 100k stagger in that situation anyway.

    Also, average avoidance > 80% doesn't really mean anything. It does absolutely nothing to change the worst case scenario other than decrease its frequency. All elusive brew is make you look better on damage taken meters, which again, is generally meaningless in the context of a successful progression kill. I guess it's useful in a tank-off /shrug.

    You feel comfortable with 14.5 & ascension, I feel fine with 11.5 & chi brew.
    Last edited by kaiadam; 2012-12-08 at 12:29 AM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Yellowfive View Post
    So I don't know what the actual theoretical limit would be on PB... as you said, you need to account for GCDs consumed on other attacks and chi generators. It seems the limit will be significantly higher than the frequency with which you receive staggerable damage. This will keep the relative value of each PB pretty high I would think. So let me ask a more pointed question: what is the amount of haste that you would require to be able to keep 100% up-time on shuffle AND use PB at the maximum frequency? Is it reachable?
    Actually not really. Most bosses have a swing timer of 1.5 seconds, so in a 6 second period you could get a max of four boss swings. Assuming perfect shuffle uptime, only about 50-60% of that damage will be put onto the buff. You will also not purify ALL the damage you take. So that damage you mitigate will not be as substantial as you think, and it's been calculated that on an average boss, an extra PB at around this time frame would on average net you less damage reduction than dodging would.

    13.33 er/s or as a very rough number, about 9000 haste rating, I believe, without ascension.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yellowfive View Post
    Also keep in mind that I'm coming from the perspective that stagger and PB are more valuable than dodge or other sources of random damage reduction simply because they are not random. Sha of Fear could be a special case... where you want to put some extra value on avoidance. But in general I think that being able to control your mitigation is more valuable. This is why, for example, other tanking classes like paladins and warriors are favoring hit/exp or hit/exp/haste style builds. Parry and Dodge Rating are all better point-for-point in terms of total damage reduction, but we just don't care -- the better control is more valuable.
    We don't want straight parry and dodge either... but as has been said, there are other benefits to crit save just avoidance. I would call shuffle priority, but EB is really not far behind.


    Quote Originally Posted by Yellowfive View Post
    This is why I'm hammering away at this idea -- if you think haste is good (to give you more resources to control your damage taken more), does it ever get to a point where you have so many resources to spend that you can't use them effectively? I've seen a few numbers thrown around... but nothing that is very convincing. Even if you filled every socket with haste and reforged half your gear to haste (assuming a lot of it would already have haste if you like haste), you can get what... an extra 10-12% haste? An extra 1-1.2 energy per second, or 1 extra chi every 30 seconds or so? (Did I estimate that correctly, or is there some other mechanic at work here?) Note also that a lot of your budge will go into hit/exp, since those are valuable secondary stats for chi generation also. I guess that I'm failing to see how an extra 1 chi every 30 seconds or so could ever be wasted... if you like haste, having a little more will be good for the same reason that all of your haste up to that point was good...
    Because the relative value of that extra chi after a certain point is not greater than the value of a greater crit chance for the same amount of stat points, due to the decreasing effectiveness of a PB for every PB you already do.

    It's not wasted, it will always benefit you somewhat... but not as much as other things.

  17. #57
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    Just tried AMR again. As a Brewmaster, it suggested full stam/parry. Switched it to WW to see if the results would be any better. Full haste. With it's suggestions, I would have 8500 haste rating. This was all without touching the default weights.

    I'm not trying to downplay the work you all do over at AMR. In the past, I've used the site quite a bit and it's worked great for me. But the fact is, there are a LOT of people that will use your suggestions blindly, without ever doing any research. At this point in time, the website is fueling the misinformation out there on Monks. It's certainly not helping.

    The least you could do is put a huge disclaimer up that says you are still working out the details for Monks and that there is a possibility your suggestions aren't what they should be.

    (and no, not the tiny print under the default stat weights)
    Last edited by Ragethorn; 2012-12-08 at 11:50 PM.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    Normal mode BrM has zero issues with spike damage, unlike my DK I don't think I had a single tank death that I was "wtf just happened to me?" type experience unlike my DK in Cata. I have always been a fan of preventing damage and CTC coverage and BrM do this beautifully while also boosting their DPS at the same time.
    While I am quite willing to admit Im probably doing something VERY wrong, Im finding Blade Lord's Overwhelming Assault to be an excellent source of WTF. Unless I make sure I have two combo points to use PB pretty much right before AND right after it, I usually find myself a smear on the floor on the next attack. We started using a DK because they basically have a Cheat Death ability that at least keeps them alive(ish) through it.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by TechGnosis View Post
    While I am quite willing to admit Im probably doing something VERY wrong, Im finding Blade Lord's Overwhelming Assault to be an excellent source of WTF. Unless I make sure I have two combo points to use PB pretty much right before AND right after it, I usually find myself a smear on the floor on the next attack. We started using a DK because they basically have a Cheat Death ability that at least keeps them alive(ish) through it.
    Guard right before it, use one of your cooldowns, or get an external. It's a good idea to save a chi to purify right after it hits too and you should be fine. I had issues with this as well at first, but there are plenty of ways to deal with it.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by TechGnosis View Post
    While I am quite willing to admit Im probably doing something VERY wrong, Im finding Blade Lord's Overwhelming Assault to be an excellent source of WTF. Unless I make sure I have two combo points to use PB pretty much right before AND right after it, I usually find myself a smear on the floor on the next attack. We started using a DK because they basically have a Cheat Death ability that at least keeps them alive(ish) through it.
    I keep 1 Chi for after it always, and use either Guard, Dampen or Fortifying just before it. IF I don't have either of those 3, I just call it out on vent and get a healer cooldown on me. It's scary for us especially because of our low health pools, but not unmanageable.

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