1. #1
    Bloodsail Admiral zenga's Avatar
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    PVP: Independent survey by the community

    Someone started up an independent survey about the current state of pvp. So far it looks like a couple of 1000 players have voted. Wanted to bring it under the attention of my fellow shamans. It doesn't take too long to fill out, and since the results will be presented to blizzard, it might not harm to stress that ele shaman is absolute crap atm. On arena junkies some of the temp. results were posted, ele shaman is mentioned as one of the weaker pvp specs.

    The survey: http://freeonlinesurveys.com/s.asp?s...csdlvgut163219
    The original thread on the wow forum: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...9035257?page=1
    The arena junkies thread with some temp results: http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/23...for-community/

  2. #2
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    Ghostcrawler has said alot of times on Twitter that good arguments>the masses opinion.

  3. #3
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enaina View Post
    Ghostcrawler has said alot of times on Twitter that good arguments>the masses opinion.
    Yes. It's not that Ghostcrawler won't see the post, but that he's well aware that popularity opinion isn't the same as critical thought. Polls and surveys don't really provide any useful information in this, particularly as there's a lot of selection bias at play to begin with.


  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral zenga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Yes. It's not that Ghostcrawler won't see the post, but that he's well aware that popularity opinion isn't the same as critical thought. Polls and surveys don't really provide any useful information in this, particularly as there's a lot of selection bias at play to begin with.
    I see it more as a tool to point out certain problems than as solution to fix things. The dev team is many times smaller than the player base, and it is not unreasonable to assume that there are certain aspects of the game that are different in reality than what the devs expect in theory. If a survey - with all it's flaws and bias - can bring those under their attention, then it did the job imo.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by zenga View Post
    I see it more as a tool to point out certain problems than as solution to fix things. The dev team is many times smaller than the player base, and it is not unreasonable to assume that there are certain aspects of the game that are different in reality than what the devs expect in theory. If a survey - with all it's flaws and bias - can bring those under their attention, then it did the job imo.
    If there were a way to moderate who is able to fill out the petition then yes it could point out problems yet I was just able to fill out 10 surveys that stated that Resto Shamans are the most OP healers in arenas atm. The problem with any online petition is the fact that they are not controlled.

  6. #6
    Bloodsail Admiral zenga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeraxis View Post
    If there were a way to moderate who is able to fill out the petition then yes it could point out problems yet I was just able to fill out 10 surveys that stated that Resto Shamans are the most OP healers in arenas atm. The problem with any online petition is the fact that they are not controlled.
    Over a decade ago I used an (back then) open source polling solution for a project. One was able to fill in as many forms as possible, but the tool that generated the results had manipulation detecting mechanic, and one was able to set how strict it should behave (i.e. multiple surveys from the same IP with the same outcome could be filtered, whereas multiple surveys with a different outcome from the same IP could be counted in as this could indicate multiple members of a family voted). Point being, the fact that you can fill in the survey multiple times does not proof that they will be factored in (I don't have proof of the contrary either btw). In the end pretty much every pool has an error margin.

    But then again, a poll is just a poll, nothing more and nothing less. People on forums always tend to speak on behalf of the community, and as far as I'm aware this is one of the first attempts on such a large scale to get an idea how the pvp community thinks about stuff. Even if it only shows a few trends that generate some talk/attention it has done it's job.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by zenga View Post
    Over a decade ago I used an (back then) open source polling solution for a project. One was able to fill in as many forms as possible, but the tool that generated the results had manipulation detecting mechanic, and one was able to set how strict it should behave (i.e. multiple surveys from the same IP with the same outcome could be filtered, whereas multiple surveys with a different outcome from the same IP could be counted in as this could indicate multiple members of a family voted). Point being, the fact that you can fill in the survey multiple times does not proof that they will be factored in (I don't have proof of the contrary either btw). In the end pretty much every pool has an error margin.

    But then again, a poll is just a poll, nothing more and nothing less. People on forums always tend to speak on behalf of the community, and as far as I'm aware this is one of the first attempts on such a large scale to get an idea how the pvp community thinks about stuff. Even if it only shows a few trends that generate some talk/attention it has done it's job.
    Actually I'd say the exact opposite, as the people who come to the forums usually do so just to complain those who think PvP is in a decent place will probably brush aside the poll and choose to not make their contentment heard.

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