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  1. #1

    Am I missing something ? Need feedback

    Before I go on, let me just mention that I raid with a constant of around 350~ms (seriously). usually slightly higher, sometimes lower. But considering that, I still like to think I do decent dps. But for some reason I consistently do horrible dps on Protectors in Terrace. I can't seem to figure out what I'm doing wrong or whether I am missing a crucial part of the fight or a 'padding' technique specific to that fight but I always seem to do low dps on that fight. Was doing straight single target initially, then tried cleaving as well. But I still seem to be doing low dps. And it's not like i'm doing low on all the rest of the fights as well, then it would be a different issue. It's just that it's consistently low on that specific fight. It's frustrating the hell out of me and I would like someone to go over my logs and see what i'm doing wrong or any tips to improve dps on that fight or on any others in general. I am probably making many mistakes and if anyone can point them out i'd appreciate it. But once again, 350 ms.. Advise me keeping that in mind lol.

    Can't post links (get rid of the spaces):

    www .worldoflogs. com/reports/rt-d73r0hsaelfia3ek/

    us .battle. net/wow/en/character/arathor/Saoron/advanced

    I also heard some people use explosive trap (as BM) on cooldown or as much as possible, even on single target, claiming that it does more damage overall than 1 arcane shot. Is there some truth behind that statement ?
    Last edited by Saoron; 2012-12-07 at 07:40 PM.

  2. #2
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    I didn't look at your logs, I'm at work, but my first and only question is: 1) Are you getting the haste buff from killing the corrupted water globes? I believe you need to be within 15 yards when it dies to get the buff.

    That buff will artificially boost other classes much higher than it boosts hunters too, btw, as it's a pretty poor stat for us.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I didn't look at your logs, I'm at work, but my first and only question is: 1) Are you getting the haste buff from killing the corrupted water globes? I believe you need to be within 15 yards when it dies to get the buff.
    That would be my first initial guess as well.


  4. #4
    I missed one of them (I think) on that specific attempt (trapped between puddles, barely got in), but I usually do get them all. It's a tiny boost for sure, but even if I miss all of them it wouldn't make a huge difference. Atleast not a 10k+ dps difference which I'm seeing compared to other hunters.

  5. #5
    The protectors heal to full every time one of them dies, so any cleave damage is wasted. It doesn't matter if explosive trap does more damage because 2/3 of it is wasted (when 3 are alive). If your other dps are cheesing meters by multidotting/cleaving, unless it increases their damage against a single target, they are the ones doing it wrong.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiralphoenix View Post
    The protectors heal to full every time one of them dies, so any cleave damage is wasted. It doesn't matter if explosive trap does more damage because 2/3 of it is wasted (when 3 are alive). If your other dps are cheesing meters by multidotting/cleaving, unless it increases their damage against a single target, they are the ones doing it wrong.
    its world of meter craft now, people will cheese fights like that just to pretend they are better then they actually are.

  7. #7
    no yea i know, and i'm not comparing myself to other classes. For some it's a boost to single target dps to cleave (like moonkins) and others just like to pad. If the boss is on farm i don't see the harm in it. But i'm just comparing to other hunters. And upon glancing at a few logs of the top parses, none of them were cleaving at all. So i'm still baffled as to what i'm doing wrong. Some logs analysis would be greatly appreciated.

  8. #8
    You ranked on the fight... you're not exactly doing 'poorly'.

  9. #9
    I don't see anything wrong with getting rank 170 with that kind of ms. You'd be amazed at the difference ping has.

  10. #10
    AOE/multi-dot damage on protectors is inflated/fluffer damage. As a hunter you probably won't be in the top 10 ever on that fight because of warriors cleaving and moonkins/spriests/warlocks multi-dotting the shit out of everything.

  11. #11
    Says "350ms".
    Says "horrible dps".

    Ranks top200.

    Srs man. You're 10% from the top and those higher prob just have 4set, upgraded hc taoren or other hc drops with better secondaries than yours.
    I'd be far more worried that your tank does almost more damage on unstable shas than you are.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Saoron View Post
    I missed one of them (I think) on that specific attempt (trapped between puddles, barely got in), but I usually do get them all. It's a tiny boost for sure, but even if I miss all of them it wouldn't make a huge difference. Atleast not a 10k+ dps difference which I'm seeing compared to other hunters.
    I wouldn't think it would be a huge difference, but it was the only thing I could think of at the time.


  13. #13
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    Yeah, moonkins and spriests definitely benefit from multi-dotting, so it's an increase to keep up their DoTs on other targets if they can. If your warlocks are doing it, that's kind of cheesing it, though I guess they could get extra nightfall procs by rolling corruptions on all of them.

  14. #14
    I do realize i ranked in the top 200 but it's always been at the bottom end of it. I rank higher on others so I was just confused as to why I'm not matching up to the other hunters in an almost patchwerk style fight. Besides the latency, the only thing I can think of is something fishy with my rotation. Comparing to the top parses, I have really low focus fire uptime. The reason for it being, after the initial burn I get full stacks of frenzy and pop it right after the second BW is over. But after that, I rarely get full stacks in an appropriate time. Whenever I do get them, BW is ~20 secs away from being off cd. And I don't wanna risk not having full stacks for it cuz 20secs wouldn't be enough. How do you guys handle focus fire ?

    And yes I do realize my dmg on sha's is low but we had set people assigned to them. I was just 'cleaning up' the ones that got close.

  15. #15
    Looking at your logs you're performing fine. You could have squeezed in a few more shots here and there, but nothing is glaringly low. I compared it to the log of my first normal(hard order) kill since it was close to the same kill time; I'm 25m, but that shouldn't matter for this fight. The biggest discrepancy that I saw was that i shot around 30 more AS than you did, but a lot of that has to do with me having 4p which affords me with much more AS spam. You also only used FF once. It isn't a huge DPS loss to burn it, but you should aim to use it anytime BW ends and you have 5 stacks. Your biggest detriment right now is your gear. While your ilvl is identical to the ilvl that I had in the kill that I'm comparing, I had 4p and a much better weapon (heroic Fang Kung). I did 104k DPS on the kill to your 95k and almost all of that has to do with the gear difference. 4p is a multiple thousand DPS increase for BM and my weapon enabled me to do on average 2k more damage per hit on all of my shots and anywhere from 2k-10k more damage on crits depending on the shot.

    Here's the biggest thing. I have no idea what happened or how it happened, but you cast 14 DB over the course of the fight. You used it as many times as you could have which is good. Somehow, and i have no idea how it could have happened, those 14 DB only attacked 69 times. They should have hit anywhere from 98-112 times, ignoring any additional hits they might get during times that you are hasted. This not only cost you at least 150 focus that you could have spent, but also significantly lowered your DB damage output. Comparing it to my logs, where I also cast 14 DB, your DB only did 3,888k DPS(e) and mine did 6584k DPS(e). My DB registered 112 hits which is how many yours should have hit for. This is almost a 3k DPS loss. I don't know if your DB were dying somehow or it is a recording error or what, but that's a pretty huge loss.

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by Saoron View Post
    Comparing to the top parses, I have really low focus fire uptime. The reason for it being, after the initial burn I get full stacks of frenzy and pop it right after the second BW is over. But after that, I rarely get full stacks in an appropriate time. Whenever I do get them, BW is ~20 secs away from being off cd. And I don't wanna risk not having full stacks for it cuz 20secs wouldn't be enough. How do you guys handle focus fire ?
    You should use your second RF after your second BW ends not FF, and never use them together, then save FF for after the next BW if you have 5 stacks. If you're 20s away from a BW and have 5 stacks generally they aren't going to drop before the BW and should not drop during it. You should aim to use them after the BW ends. Also you should make sure you have an addon that can track frenzy stacks so you can pop FF if you see that they are about to fall off.
    Last edited by Tehcourage; 2012-12-09 at 04:16 AM.

  16. #16
    On that specific fight though, I had 97.5% uptime on Frenzy. Probably since I only used FF once.

    But i'm not worried about frenzy stacks dropping (in a tank and spank fight) moreso than using FF and consuming them. If I get 5 stacks and I am 45+sec away from my next BW, I always use it. But that rarely happens is what my point was. I usually only get full 5 stacks after the initial burn where I use it right away. Other times it's always at a time where BW is close to being off cd so I just save my frenzy stacks.

    Another thing, I was under the impression since auto shots do a significant amount of dmg now, that you should stack RF and BW ? I know you weren't supposed to pre MoP. But hmm, if that is something that all the other hunters are doing then that is def something I need to change. I have RF and BW macroed together atm. But I guess I can try and pop the second RF after the second BW is over.

    I have no idea why my DB has so few attacks. That confuses me even more. That is a huge chunk of dmg/dps.

  17. #17
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    I stack RF and BW in the opener because you might as well, and RF provides the focus regen for chaining the two BWs back to back. Other than that, I don't. The autoshot increase will happen regardless of when you pop it, and the 10% extra for popping it during The Beast Within (IE, BW) probably isn't as good as popping it in a timely situation where you need focus and want to spam CoS. IE, like right before AMoC comes up, lol.

  18. #18
    Yea I'm gonna start staggering the second RF. But, does anyone know why on that log my DB only hit half the times it was supposed to ? Can anyone figure out the reason ?

  19. #19
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    Broken down by cast

    1-2. Double DB due to Readiness, attacks 19 times.
    3. 9 attacks
    4. 9 attacks, last attack on Asani as you switch over.
    5. This is where it starts to get wonky, 2 attacks, dies to random target Defiled Ground, don't think you can really do anything about it, very apparently not getting the AoE reduction normal pets get. This is the thing from Kaolan, btw, which he gets after the first empower, and should really be only cast on the tank tanking him afaik. Is your tank tanking it too close to Asani?:

    20:39:01.338] Saoron casts Dire Beast on Elder Asani
    [20:39:01.518] Beast crits Elder Asani *27959*
    [20:39:01.531] Elder Asani afflicted by Dire Beast from Saoron
    [20:39:03.258] Beast crits Elder Asani *27959*
    [20:39:03.550] Unknown Defiled Ground Beast 87064 (O: 50436)

    6. 9 attacks
    7. 2 attacks, another defiled ground:

    [20:40:04.213] Saoron casts Dire Beast on Elder Asani
    [20:40:04.330] Beast hits Elder Asani 12339
    [20:40:04.345] Elder Asani afflicted by Dire Beast from Saoron
    [20:40:06.221] Beast hits Elder Asani 18557
    [20:40:06.756] Beast gains Wild Growth from Sosleepyy
    [20:40:06.756] Sosleepyy's Wild Growth fades from Beast
    [20:40:06.756] Unknown Defiled Ground Beast 87064 (O: 50436)

    8. 1 attack, defiled ground:

    [20:40:35.868] Saoron casts Dire Beast on Elder Asani
    [20:40:36.120] Beast hits Elder Asani 13254
    [20:40:36.120] Elder Asani afflicted by Dire Beast from Saoron
    [20:40:36.120] Unknown Defiled Ground Beast 87064 (O: 50436)

    9. 4 attacks, defiled ground:

    [20:41:06.704] Saoron casts Dire Beast on Protector Kaolan
    [20:41:06.716] Beast crits Protector Kaolan *35132*
    [20:41:06.716] Protector Kaolan afflicted by Dire Beast from Saoron
    [20:41:08.073] Beast crits Protector Kaolan *24592* (B: 10540)
    [20:41:09.383] Beast crits Protector Kaolan *35131*
    [20:41:10.716] Beast hits Protector Kaolan 17566
    [20:41:11.963] Unknown Defiled Ground Beast 87064 (O: 77936)

    10. On Kaolan now, 9 attacks
    11. 2 attacks, now he's dying from Expelled Corruption, which suggests to me that your tank drags him out to the very edge, your pet races to the bosses back, and dies in the AoE:

    [20:42:10.204] Saoron casts Dire Beast on Protector Kaolan
    [20:42:10.343] Beast hits Protector Kaolan 15537
    [20:42:10.343] Protector Kaolan afflicted by Dire Beast from Saoron
    [20:42:12.074] Beast hits Protector Kaolan 15537
    [20:42:12.353] Unknown Expelled Corruption Beast 87064 (O: 201170)

    12. Weird sequence here: You cast it at 42m41s, it never attacks, fades at 42m57s (expected time) but doesn't register a hit...maybe your tank was kiting him and the pet continually was running after him?

    [20:42:41.988] Saoron casts Dire Beast on Protector Kaolan
    [20:42:42.160] Protector Kaolan afflicted by Dire Beast from Saoron
    [20:42:57.175] Saoron's Dire Beast fades from Protector Kaolan

    13. Same thing, never hits:

    [20:43:07.264] Saoron casts Dire Beast on Protector Kaolan
    [20:43:07.540] Protector Kaolan afflicted by Dire Beast from Saoron
    [20:43:22.535] Saoron's Dire Beast fades from Protector Kaolan

    14. 4 attacks, Kaolon dies.


    tl;dr: Elite mode seems to suck for DB if your tank is sloppy with where he places those voids or how he places Kaolan after the kite.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Broken down by cast

    1-2. Double DB due to Readiness, attacks 19 times.
    3. 9 attacks
    4. 9 attacks, last attack on Asani as you switch over.
    5. This is where it starts to get wonky, 2 attacks, dies to random target Defiled Ground, don't think you can really do anything about it, very apparently not getting the AoE reduction normal pets get. This is the thing from Kaolan, btw, which he gets after the first empower, and should really be only cast on the tank tanking him afaik. Is your tank tanking it too close to Asani?:

    20:39:01.338] Saoron casts Dire Beast on Elder Asani
    [20:39:01.518] Beast crits Elder Asani *27959*
    [20:39:01.531] Elder Asani afflicted by Dire Beast from Saoron
    [20:39:03.258] Beast crits Elder Asani *27959*
    [20:39:03.550] Unknown Defiled Ground Beast 87064 (O: 50436)

    6. 9 attacks
    7. 2 attacks, another defiled ground:

    [20:40:04.213] Saoron casts Dire Beast on Elder Asani
    [20:40:04.330] Beast hits Elder Asani 12339
    [20:40:04.345] Elder Asani afflicted by Dire Beast from Saoron
    [20:40:06.221] Beast hits Elder Asani 18557
    [20:40:06.756] Beast gains Wild Growth from Sosleepyy
    [20:40:06.756] Sosleepyy's Wild Growth fades from Beast
    [20:40:06.756] Unknown Defiled Ground Beast 87064 (O: 50436)

    8. 1 attack, defiled ground:

    [20:40:35.868] Saoron casts Dire Beast on Elder Asani
    [20:40:36.120] Beast hits Elder Asani 13254
    [20:40:36.120] Elder Asani afflicted by Dire Beast from Saoron
    [20:40:36.120] Unknown Defiled Ground Beast 87064 (O: 50436)

    9. 4 attacks, defiled ground:

    [20:41:06.704] Saoron casts Dire Beast on Protector Kaolan
    [20:41:06.716] Beast crits Protector Kaolan *35132*
    [20:41:06.716] Protector Kaolan afflicted by Dire Beast from Saoron
    [20:41:08.073] Beast crits Protector Kaolan *24592* (B: 10540)
    [20:41:09.383] Beast crits Protector Kaolan *35131*
    [20:41:10.716] Beast hits Protector Kaolan 17566
    [20:41:11.963] Unknown Defiled Ground Beast 87064 (O: 77936)

    10. On Kaolan now, 9 attacks
    11. 2 attacks, now he's dying from Expelled Corruption, which suggests to me that your tank drags him out to the very edge, your pet races to the bosses back, and dies in the AoE:

    [20:42:10.204] Saoron casts Dire Beast on Protector Kaolan
    [20:42:10.343] Beast hits Protector Kaolan 15537
    [20:42:10.343] Protector Kaolan afflicted by Dire Beast from Saoron
    [20:42:12.074] Beast hits Protector Kaolan 15537
    [20:42:12.353] Unknown Expelled Corruption Beast 87064 (O: 201170)

    12. Weird sequence here: You cast it at 42m41s, it never attacks, fades at 42m57s (expected time) but doesn't register a hit...maybe your tank was kiting him and the pet continually was running after him?

    [20:42:41.988] Saoron casts Dire Beast on Protector Kaolan
    [20:42:42.160] Protector Kaolan afflicted by Dire Beast from Saoron
    [20:42:57.175] Saoron's Dire Beast fades from Protector Kaolan

    13. Same thing, never hits:

    [20:43:07.264] Saoron casts Dire Beast on Protector Kaolan
    [20:43:07.540] Protector Kaolan afflicted by Dire Beast from Saoron
    [20:43:22.535] Saoron's Dire Beast fades from Protector Kaolan

    14. 4 attacks, Kaolon dies.


    tl;dr: Elite mode seems to suck for DB if your tank is sloppy with where he places those voids or how he places Kaolan after the kite.
    I've actually had my pet die to those in LFR lol. Can't believe I didn't think of that for this one.

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