1. #1
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Looks like the MW nerfs are here to stay.

    http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_...fault/#fo00000

    I'm pretty surprised by those numbers. It would appear that hotfixes actually brought us in line with the other healers, and the only healer outperforming the MW spec are Disc priests.

  2. #2
    Mistweaver will still begin to drop below paladins and probably resto shaman.

  3. #3
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daredalus View Post
    Mistweaver will still begin to drop below paladins and probably resto shaman.
    Yeah I can definitely see that happening, but that might not be a bad thing. May even lead to some buffs in 5.2.

  4. #4
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    Raidbots is a 7 day moving median. It won't reflect the full range of the mana nerfs until next week, since they were applied Sunday-ish.

    I don't think the mana nerfs will have nearly as much of an impact as the throughput nerfs from 5.1, however. Mana wasn't challenging to manage even with the tiny increase in 5.1, so even though 30% is huge, it isn't terrible to deal with.

    I'm slightly concerned that some other healing classes are now vastly more mana efficient than us and will continue to scale well, since they can focus more on intellect (mostly, that the resto shamans I raid with are running sub-9k spirit and are fine).

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by DirewolfX View Post
    Raidbots is a 7 day moving median. It won't reflect the full range of the mana nerfs until next week, since they were applied Sunday-ish.

    I don't think the mana nerfs will have nearly as much of an impact as the throughput nerfs from 5.1, however. Mana wasn't challenging to manage even with the tiny increase in 5.1, so even though 30% is huge, it isn't terrible to deal with.

    I'm slightly concerned that some other healing classes are now vastly more mana efficient than us and will continue to scale well, since they can focus more on intellect (mostly, that the resto shamans I raid with are running sub-9k spirit and are fine).
    This amuses me, since the 2 rshams I run with run >11k spirirt I believe and always complain about mana (and are some of the best rsham's I've ever healed with) and I run with sub-7600 (well, I stay around 7500) spirit and don't have any mana problems myself. Partly due to their mana tides giving so much mana, probably, but still.

  6. #6
    Herald of the Titans Hanto's Avatar
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    I do notice that not much has changed for me on the PvE side of things (just Raid Finder but still a raid scenario), managing mana was something I had to pay a bit more attention to, but aside from that it was easy.

    In PvP... uugh. I feel ridiculously weak compared to other healers. Mana is an issue at times but throughput feels lackluster. I used to be able to bounce a Chi Wave off of a DPS that was on me, on top of a Renewing Mist and the occasional Surging and keep myself topped off. But I was getting rolled by any DPS ('cept rogues) last night in RBGs with the same antics, causing me to constantly having to stun/snare and Surge spam back to full. If PvE healing seems more on par, I'm thinking the scaling of PvP power with our heals might need to be improved slightly.

  7. #7
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnorrior View Post
    This amuses me, since the 2 rshams I run with run >11k spirirt I believe and always complain about mana (and are some of the best rsham's I've ever healed with) and I run with sub-7600 (well, I stay around 7500) spirit and don't have any mana problems myself. Partly due to their mana tides giving so much mana, probably, but still.
    Well, when they are both healing mana becomes a lot easier due to double mana tide, and I can probably afford to drop a lot of spirit. One of them is often doing Elemental, because he can still upstage 2/3 of our DPS in his resto gear, and the quality of our DPS is a real problem. If the other one is gone, there's a chance I'll be healing with no mana tide, so I need to be prepared.

    Are you still doing fine with 7500 spirit since the mana nerf? Also, do your trinkets have spirit procs? I was totally comfortable with ~8.5-9k spirit before the nerfs. I might've gone a little overboard and ended up with over 10k, but mana felt really easy with that--I was able to blow Surging Mists when needed, which was an interesting change to the healing style.

  8. #8
    We're basically a resto druid sans the extremely powerful CD and being able to heal specific targets effectively. Gg.

  9. #9
    Too bad the Jab nerf isn't even in yet, and as Direwolf said, it's covering a couple of days before the mana nerfs as well. This is how you don't use raidbots.

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I'm pretty surprised by those numbers. It would appear that hotfixes actually brought us in line with the other healers, and the only healer outperforming the MW spec are Disc priests.
    Based on the same criteria look at 10m Normal: http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_...fault/#do00000

    Tells a much different story (not addressing data validity).

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  11. #11
    Dont take the top 100 parses. Take "All parses". Much more relevant.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Alianthos View Post
    Dont take the top 100 parses. Take "All parses". Much more relevant.
    Seriously, there is only one right way to link healing Raidbots, and that's Check ALL healers --> All parses --> Time frame for what you're looking for --> Difficult/raid size you want. Top 100 isn't like DPS, it's almost always one healer just being a lot better than the others in his/her raid and usually being fed mana cooldowns.

    That said, let me repeat that Jab is still not nerfed as intended, and Blizzard would be insane to keep it at 9k and making it the single most efficient Chi generator beyond even Soothing Mist. I think the only reason that they're hesitating to fix it is because they know that Mistweavers are only staying afloat by ridiculously abusing the fact that Jab didn't get nerfed, just like we were abusing the fact that SCK didn't get nerfed in 5.1.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Alianthos View Post
    Dont take the top 100 parses. Take "All parses". Much more relevant.
    Well said, I was just about to say the same thing. Keep fighting the good fight there man.

    That said, the conclusions remain the same; MW in-line with other healers and disc still far ahead. Same deal with 10mans. But like another poster said, you need to wait at least a week since it uses 7 day data.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2012-12-05 at 09:43 PM.

  14. #14
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alianthos View Post
    Dont take the top 100 parses. Take "All parses". Much more relevant.
    Okay, if you do "all parses" MWs come out on top (as in #2 behind Disc priests) in both 10 and 25 heroics;

    http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_...fault/#3o00000
    http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_...fault/#3o00000

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Okay, if you do "all parses" MWs come out on top (as in #2 behind Disc priests) in both 10 and 25 heroics;
    I gotta say, the decline after the patch point is rather steep.
    Gone until the next expansion.

  16. #16
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    And with the mana nerfs, it's likely to drop a bit more before it settles.

  17. #17
    Dreadlord Kyuubi87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    I gotta say, the decline after the patch point is rather steep.
    It is indeed, if they keep it this way, well having Mistweavers in a raid at that point will be highly undesirable, let alone having 2.

  18. #18
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    I gotta say, the decline after the patch point is rather steep.
    Well to be fair, MWs were pretty high up before the patch.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Well to be fair, MWs were pretty high up before the patch.
    Right but raw numbers is absolutely all we had. The ReM+Uplift mechanics are begging for overhealing and are by far, still after nerf, our only way to really compete on heals.

    We lack efficient quick spot heals. Our "greater heal" and "flash heal" are the same which is totally killing our mana. SoM is total crap in a competitive environment and really, EM doesn't cut it either - Most ticks are overhealing. We're basically putting out good numbers sitting back and enjoying the show during non aoe periods and abusing long-built setups uplift spam after big aoes. O wait that was before discs managed to kill that too via shields.

    I'm not so much trying to rant rather just to point out that regardless of how you look at Raidbot or any other source, the numbers won't show you how bad we turn out when paired with Discs and with the current state of Disc, MWer is bound to keep dropping more and more as our core competitive mechanic gets countered by spirit shell.

    I mean really our only leftover niche from a 10m standpoint is for encounters not allowing people to group properly for hpals/rshams to do proper aoe healing assuming there is no disc in the raid.

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