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  1. #21
    @Elpadrino

    You really have to take into account gear for fire...not every mage sits at ~500ilvl with that much crit

    For guys that just started raiding or still doing normals lack of crit can be really frustrating...

    I m sitting at 491 and with fire gems/reforges arcane performed a lot better on TES last night than fire and i havent played arcane since HC spine(around May that is)

    I agree that the sky is not falling but plz take into account all aspects here
    Last edited by Jimm3; 2012-12-06 at 11:27 AM.

  2. #22
    Brewmaster Kiry's Avatar
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    Getting back to Wind lord.

    I would recommend going frost. Heck, I dont see why not stay as arcane if the raid is successful and that is where your comfort zone is.
    I personally haven't tried arcane on Wind lord, just fire and frost. I use LB on multiple targets and yes I flamestrike when it's up and I can without too much interruption in what I'm doing. It's a fairly quick cast and the DOT rolls on the adds. Frost orb is godly on multiple adds. Granted I was doing much better as fire with comb spread pre5.1, but so was everyone.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by elpadrino293 View Post
    you are completely wrong. fire is not that bad. you were so far ahead of the rest of the pack, the nerf simply brings you back in line. it does NOT destroy the class or spec. play correctly and gear accordingly and you will still top your meters.


    v THIS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimm3 View Post
    @Elpadrino

    You really have to take into account gear for fire...not every mage sits at ~500ilvl with that much crit

    For guys that just started raiding or still doing normals lack of crit can be really frustrating...

    I m sitting at 491 and with fire gems/reforges arcane performed a lot better on TES last night than fire and i havent played arcane since HC spine(around May that is)

    I agree that the sky is not falling but plz take into account all aspects here

    Elpadrino,

    Do you think everyone has heroic gear like you?
    Do you think everyone is a core player?
    There are lots of casuals too you know (thats why they even made LFR),
    who can't reach the minimum crit rating needed to enjoy the fire spec anymore, because of the huge nerf to CM.
    Or can you still reach it with LFR and rep gear?

    You can't play correctly anymore because the spec won't let you play correctly anymore.
    I mean, what else can you do rather than refresh LB and spam FB if you can't get any crits/heating up at all.

  4. #24
    Fire is no longer a viable raid spec. You don't need logs, just go raid and try it. You will be at the bottom of the dps if you're in a decent raiding guild. It's just the way it is. It gets one last chance tonight, not that I'm expecting any changes from last night. lol

    It's time for me to quit complaining and just quit wow. I think it's time I figured out another hobby until the next expansion.

  5. #25
    The Patient Brewswami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SparkyR View Post
    It's time for me to quit complaining and just quit wow. I think it's time I figured out another hobby until the next expansion.
    Why not play frost or arcane? You will be near the top of the charts on single target fights and doing ok on aoe fights. We have one bad spec now, i don't think that is a huge deal. The problem is that we have all crit gear and that is not setup great for arcane. But in time arcane will get even better assuming they don't nerf it...
    Jobahlie-Mage- Only of it's kind since Vanilla WoW

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Kendeura View Post
    My friend ranked first in the world on Wind Lord as Arcane: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-1b...&e=4808#Krpane

    Frost Bomb is basically carrying him and allows him to spam Explosion.

    Keep in mind that you should put Frost Bomb on the boss after 1 pack has died.
    What's his rotation on that fight? Sounds fun, but I'm not sure my guild would want me standing within 15 yards of melee because of bad Wind Bomb drops (we generally start further out and move in towards the end)

    Edit: Oh, my bad, that was normal, so it could work there. On Heroic you're doing the whole fight with adds up with Wind Bombs going down the majority of the time. Either way, AE still intrigues me and I'd like to know the rotation.
    Last edited by MrExcelion; 2012-12-07 at 10:23 PM.

  7. #27
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrExcelion View Post
    What's his rotation on that fight? Sounds fun, but I'm not sure my guild would want me standing within 15 yards of melee because of bad Wind Bomb drops (we generally start further out and move in towards the end)

    Edit: Oh, my bad, that was normal, so it could work there. On Heroic you're doing the whole fight with adds up with Wind Bombs going down the majority of the time. Either way, AE still intrigues me and I'd like to know the rotation.
    At a guess you wouldn't be using Explosion in P2, just when the adds are grouped.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by elpadrino293 View Post
    you are completely wrong. fire is not that bad. you were so far ahead of the rest of the pack, the nerf simply brings you back in line. it does NOT destroy the class or spec. play correctly and gear accordingly and you will still top your meters.
    Dont get me wrong but you never killed any boss in heroic mode on MV you dont know what you are talking about... if you played with high skill players you will see that fire is completly broken.
    So plz stop making false states when you dont have 1 boss in heroic killed and when you only raid 10m.

  9. #29
    If CC 4, you will have 5 adds plus the boss.

    RoP, Frostbomb, Flamestrike, AE spam, use ABarr at 5 charges. Reforge for mastery.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2012-12-08 at 04:51 AM.
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    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  10. #30
    The Patient elpadrino293's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by invictusordead View Post
    Dont get me wrong but you never killed any boss in heroic mode on MV you dont know what you are talking about... if you played with high skill players you will see that fire is completly broken.
    So plz stop making false states when you dont have 1 boss in heroic killed and when you only raid 10m.
    you must be retarded. how could anyone take anything you have to say seriously... i raid 25m and have several (only 16, but it's a team game.) MV heroic kills... and raid with several people who are consistently are ranking on worldoflogs... raidbots & armory in the signature...

    post nerf - 12/5/12 - Imperial Vizier Zor'lok 25N (04:57) - 96th percentile - #67 ranked fire mage

    i clearly don't know what i am talking about...

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Shangalar; 2012-12-08 at 01:28 PM.

  11. #31
    The Patient Brewswami's Avatar
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    Yeah that guy is blind as a bat. There is no doubting your skill and that 104.4k is one of the highest parses a fire mage has put out since the nerf. Any mage spec for that matter. For your ilvl it's definitely impressive. I will miss fire's mobility on that fight and having Invocation which I often conveniently got to refresh when inside the bubble which helped the healers deal with Force and Verve. All of that will be way more important when my guild get's to that fight on heroic. I am kind of hoping a change to fire happens before that point. As of right now I am actually enjoying a fresh raiding experience as arcane and so far have been doing just fine on every boss. Made tons TONS of mistakes on heroic Elegon today but got the kill after 6 pulls and did respectable dps. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/t...?s=7510&e=7980
    P.S. Arcane destroys the sparks, with enough skill and a little rng you could take down 5 waves of 2 sparks solo.
    Jobahlie-Mage- Only of it's kind since Vanilla WoW

  12. #32
    I am a little disappointed about the lack of critical thinking that goes behind analyzing these logs.

    Elpadrino- Yes 104k for Imperial is awesome. But lets dig deeper.
    1) You are doing normal in 496 gear. Where does your item level compare to other people parsing for Normal Imperial?
    -Even if top guilds killed normal Imperial first week in your item level, how many more weeks of practice have you gotten vs. how many they got?
    2) Pyroblast was your top damage critting 55% of the time. Is this normal for you or lucky?
    3) Did you get exhaled or mc'ed?
    4) I'm not saying you don't have skill, it takes more than RNG to parse top 100; however, how certain are you that you could reproduce the results?

    Also, it is awesome that you are still top damage in your guild, and that fire is treating you well so far... but that does not mean it is as good as you make it out to be.
    Top 5 specs (best ---> worst) for each fight that aren't mage specs. (what percentile people that play those specs in your guild are)

    Protectors... You were 75% percentile
    Aff Lock (74%)
    Balance (none)
    S Priest (71%)
    Combat (87%)
    Frost DK (60%)

    Tsulong... you were 89%
    Frost DK (63%)
    Warrior (39%)
    Aff Lock (33%)
    BM (78%)
    Windwalker (39%)

    I could go on, but I would imagine the picture would remain the same. You are consistently outperforming other top specs for each fight. Would your place @ number 1 in your guilds charts continue if your guildies performed better?

    Again, I'm not doubting your skill as a fire mage, but a lot more is going on than the "fire is fine" picture that you created. Have you gotten any bad streaks? I played fire post hot fix, with a 493 ilvl and haven't gotten anywhere close to the results you have. Some fights my fb/pyro crit percentage is as low as 35%. Some other fights my highest ignite has been just shy of 40k. It's not like I'm a terrible player (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-iebx9ml234olwbzd/).

    But in the end, like GC says, small sample sizes are small.

    Cheers and GL with RNG,
    Heisen

  13. #33
    I notice the top arcane parses for Mel'jarak 25 normal are slightly higher than the top frost parses. Might be something to look into.


    Anyway I went with living bomb on the fight since I have an elegon trinket that needs a dot, glyph of fire blast, glyph of arcane power, glyph of mana gem.

    Basic idea is to get living bomb on three targets constantly, keep flamestrike on cooldown, arcane explosion, use missiles procs but cut them off immediately and barrage at 6 charges. Alter time to double barrage with power and potion/trinkets. I did 209,000 DPS which ranked second, 1,000 DPS behind that frost bomb fellow. I didn't have four piece then I'm sure I could do more DPS now.

  14. #34
    The Patient elpadrino293's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dementor View Post
    I am a little disappointed about the lack of critical thinking that goes behind analyzing these logs.

    Elpadrino- Yes 104k for Imperial is awesome. But lets dig deeper.
    1) You are doing normal in 496 gear. Where does your item level compare to other people parsing for Normal Imperial?
    -Even if top guilds killed normal Imperial first week in your item level, how many more weeks of practice have you gotten vs. how many they got?
    2) Pyroblast was your top damage critting 55% of the time. Is this normal for you or lucky?
    3) Did you get exhaled or mc'ed?
    4) I'm not saying you don't have skill, it takes more than RNG to parse top 100; however, how certain are you that you could reproduce the results?

    Also, it is awesome that you are still top damage in your guild, and that fire is treating you well so far... but that does not mean it is as good as you make it out to be.
    Top 5 specs (best ---> worst) for each fight that aren't mage specs. (what percentile people that play those specs in your guild are)

    Protectors... You were 75% percentile
    Aff Lock (74%)
    Balance (none)
    S Priest (71%)
    Combat (87%)
    Frost DK (60%)

    Tsulong... you were 89%
    Frost DK (63%)
    Warrior (39%)
    Aff Lock (33%)
    BM (78%)
    Windwalker (39%)

    I could go on, but I would imagine the picture would remain the same. You are consistently outperforming other top specs for each fight. Would your place @ number 1 in your guilds charts continue if your guildies performed better?

    Again, I'm not doubting your skill as a fire mage, but a lot more is going on than the "fire is fine" picture that you created. Have you gotten any bad streaks? I played fire post hot fix, with a 493 ilvl and haven't gotten anywhere close to the results you have. Some fights my fb/pyro crit percentage is as low as 35%. Some other fights my highest ignite has been just shy of 40k. It's not like I'm a terrible player (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-iebx9ml234olwbzd/).

    But in the end, like GC says, small sample sizes are small.

    Cheers and GL with RNG,
    Heisen
    i don't think a 495 equipped ilvl is extraordinary, its just normal mode gear with a few exceptions. and herioc imperial vizier is pretty fucking rough, i'm sure there are a lot of 495 ilvl mages parsing normal mode. for a rather casual guild like my own, with so many bosses to kill, and so little time to put in serious progression attempts, we're skipping a lot of the more difficult heroics for ones more suitable to our time frame. i'm at least pretty sure that has to be the case for a lot of other guilds as well.

    as far as my guildmates performace issues... while not everyone is up to par with the rest of the world, we do some very quality dps who are consistently ranking on worldoflogs... my numbers against other mages or other classes in other guilds can be taken out of context for several reasons (strategy, gear, etc...) but to compare my numbers against the other classes in my own raid is quite reasonable as we're executing the same strategy and have the same gear available to us. the lock, rogue, dk, spriest among others who i compete for the top spot in my raid typically all perform rather well. and im not always at the top, prenerf they couldnt come close, but now things are actually really competitive.

    yes, the 55% (18/33) pyroblast is +2 standard deviations away from the expected value (really, really good rng), but in that same log, my fireball crits were at 33.33% (24/72)when they should have been hovering around 39.2% + int procs, which is about -1.5 standard deviations (pretty damn poor). and overall, its actually rather balanaced, neither GOOD nor BAD RNG... 24 fireball & 18 pyroblast crits over the 105 total is 40% (42/105) on the dot, which is almost exactly what i would expect to see.

    out strategy for protectors, and tsulong to an extent (we use too few healers too many dps), isn't going to allow me to break into that 90th percentile unless we switch some shit up. too much scumbag dps across the protectors ranks atm for honest dps to rank among the top.

    and yes i am rather confident i can reproduce similar results across any fight this tier, single cleave or aoe, but i'm not a meter whore. well i am, but we are all, but i certainly could do a lot more to match the extent of others.

    12/7 Blade Lord Ta'yak 25N (05:44) - 95th percentile
    12/7 Grand Empress Shek'zeer 25N (07:55) - 93rd percentile
    12/7 The Stone Guard 25H (04:13) - 92nd percentile - (had to do the dissonance fields as well)

    and yeah i've certainly had some cold streaks throughout my post-nerf experience, but i had them pre-nerf as well. it is inherent to fire mages in general. and while they may occur more frequently at the moment, we all recently went through the same problem before we were wearing epics. my crit rating wasn't always 30%+. and even if my crit was lower, it doesn't mean i cant crit more often than expected. being +/- a single standard deviation is just as likely either way, which is typically around 4%-5% over 100 casts. in my case, while i expect to see ~40% crits on fb/pyro, i know it can fluctuate between 35.1% and 44.9%. anything under or over those marks is what can be considered GOOD RNG or BAD RNG.

    as far my larger ignites, i really think my professions (tailor/engineer) and their procs are helping a considerable amount. seems like theres usually always some proc going.

    Last edited by elpadrino293; 2012-12-09 at 09:02 AM.

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