Page 3 of 16 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
13
... LastLast
  1. #41
    The Lightbringer Deadvolcanoes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,599
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I think there's absolutely nothing in it for us, and it's not our problem if bad things happen in other countries.
    What's the cutoff point? Do we allow a modern day holocaust to happen and not intervene because its another country? I think chemical weapon use is a decent cutoff point for me.
    It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.

  2. #42
    Pandaren Monk Willeonge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    The Greyt Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    1,997
    French are also apparently preparing to seize chemical stockpiles. http://www.lepoint.fr/chroniqueurs-d...1539285_53.php
    "Laws should be made of iron, not of pudding."

    “A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good. Each should have its own reward.”

    - King Stannis Baratheon

  3. #43
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Mini Soda
    Posts
    22,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    I'm certainly not advocating another ten year war followed by ten years of re-building infrastructure. I think we could do this in a manner very similar to Libya, although that's speculation on my part.
    Just blow him away from the sky or send in a small team of special forces to bring him out.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-05 at 10:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    What's the cutoff point? Do we allow a modern day holocaust to happen and not intervene because its another country? I think chemical weapon use is a decent cutoff point for me.
    Any use of a WMD should be a red line.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    I wouldn't expect someone who thinks science provides proof to know that.

  4. #44
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Kenosha, Wisconsin
    Posts
    10,207
    Quote Originally Posted by Kivimetsan View Post
    News just in, Iraq has WMD's and are killing babies in Kuwait, we better go invade them! - 10 years ago. All a lie.

    STOP FALLING FOR THE FUCKING LIES PEOPLE!!!!!!!
    If you can show that this is a lie, go ahead.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    What's the cutoff point? Do we allow a modern day holocaust to happen and not intervene because its another country? I think chemical weapon use is a decent cutoff point for me.
    The cutoff point, for me, is when there's something in it for us, or if we're legally obligated to do something about it. If there's a UN or NATO action, I'm sure we'll participate and do much more than our fair share. If there's not, it's not our problem. If that means some really awful things happen in other countries because of inaction at the UN, I'm fine with that. It is not the United States's problem to fix things in other countries, and we're not very good at it anyway.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Just blow him away from the sky or send in a small team of special forces to bring him out.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-05 at 10:15 PM ----------

    Any use of a WMD should be a red line.
    Bleh all those anti american people do not deserve US help. Since they were so hell bent about america's downfall they should not be afforded any help from the american people. They should burn in the fire THEY created. Everyone is always upset that America plays world police and now that the US isn't they are upset? Have some pride and handle it on their own rather than grovel like pathetic dogs and expect to be bailed out now they are in for some shit.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy." -Alexander Tytler

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Any use of a WMD should be a red line.
    Why? The Holocaust wasn't done with WMDs. The Rape of Nanking wasn't done with WMDs.

  8. #48
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Mini Soda
    Posts
    22,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Why? The Holocaust wasn't done with WMDs. The Rape of Nanking wasn't done with WMDs.
    Because any government cavalier enough to use WMDs on its own citizens is a global threat. This is one reason NATO is parking Patriots in Turkey.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    I wouldn't expect someone who thinks science provides proof to know that.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Because any government cavalier enough to use WMDs on its own citizens is a global threat.
    That seems really questionable. Iraq being the obvious counterexample, where there was no plausible global threat posed in the decade following the Gulf War.

  10. #50
    I say we stay the hell out of it, let them kill each other off and let the rest of the world deal with countries who are willing to gas and kill their own countrymen. Prior to the first gulf war it was proven that Saddam had gassed the Kurds and the US got shit on by everyone for wanting to stomp that fucker and his psycho kids out of existence. Oh, I know we went in to "save" that pissant little country and all the other douche towel heads who hate the US, but it's high time we tell them to fuck off, fight our own wars and leave us alone.

    Infracted: Please refrain from making racist comments or nation bashing.
    Last edited by Pendulous; 2012-12-06 at 08:46 PM.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    The cutoff point, for me, is when there's something in it for us, or if we're legally obligated to do something about it. If there's a UN or NATO action, I'm sure we'll participate and do much more than our fair share. If there's not, it's not our problem. If that means some really awful things happen in other countries because of inaction at the UN, I'm fine with that. It is not the United States's problem to fix things in other countries, and we're not very good at it anyway.
    This position reminds me of the bystander effect.

    Bergtau's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability that somebody will mention Godwin's Law approaches 1.
    Hitler wasn't all bad, I mean, he DID kill Hitler.
    An accident is something that you did not mean to do at all. A mistake is something that you regret doing.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    This position reminds me of the bystander effect.
    Bystanders don't typically incur substantial costs by breaking their trance.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Bystanders don't typically incur substantial costs by breaking their trance.
    Doesn't change the fact that you're basically saying "The UN will do something about it."

    Bergtau's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability that somebody will mention Godwin's Law approaches 1.
    Hitler wasn't all bad, I mean, he DID kill Hitler.
    An accident is something that you did not mean to do at all. A mistake is something that you regret doing.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    Oh for fuck sake please dont... yet another fully fledged war will happen and everyone will have to get involved. Hopefully the UN steps in and fixes this problem.
    UN? Fix a problem? heh.
    "I just wanted them to hand us our award! But they were just talk!, talk!, talk!......" - Wrathion

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by niki View Post
    I don't know what kind of tinfoil I use, but tell me where are the WMDs in Iraq? U.S. officials told NBC News that Syria is preparing chemical weapons. To me it sounds like the same lies that were used to get people to approve the war in Iraq.
    The difference here is that we have a shit ton more reason ALREADY and OUTSIDE OF CHEMICAL WEAPON CLAIMS to invade Syria.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    Doesn't change the fact that you're basically saying "The UN will do something about it."
    No, I'm not saying they'll do something about it. I'm saying that I have no desire to spend our resources on dealing with a problem that doesn't tangibly effect us. This is very different from the bystander effect; I'm not assuming someone will do something about it, I'm saying that I actively don't want us to do anything about it.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    No, I'm not saying they'll do something about it. I'm saying that I have no desire to spend our resources on dealing with a problem that doesn't tangibly effect us. This is very different from the bystander effect; I'm not assuming someone will do something about it, I'm saying that I actively don't want us to do anything about it.
    That's even worse, at least in this context.

    Bergtau's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability that somebody will mention Godwin's Law approaches 1.
    Hitler wasn't all bad, I mean, he DID kill Hitler.
    An accident is something that you did not mean to do at all. A mistake is something that you regret doing.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    That's even worse, at least in this context.
    That's certainly one opinion, and I can see why you'd hold it. I'm not asserting that everyone must find my position morally acceptable, I'm just saying it's not actually particularly akin to the bystander effect. Agree?

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    The cutoff point, for me, is when there's something in it for us, or if we're legally obligated to do something about it. If there's a UN or NATO action, I'm sure we'll participate and do much more than our fair share. If there's not, it's not our problem. If that means some really awful things happen in other countries because of inaction at the UN, I'm fine with that. It is not the United States's problem to fix things in other countries, and we're not very good at it anyway.
    This.

    This sort of thing is supposed to be the U.N.'s responsibility. We've been policing the world for far too long and it hasn't earned us any fans, only global resentment. We throw away trillions of dollars to help people that in most cases don't even want our help, when those trillions could help people at home--you know, the people who actually pay the taxes, the taxes that are supposed to be used to help them.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    The difference here is that we have a shit ton more reason ALREADY and OUTSIDE OF CHEMICAL WEAPON CLAIMS to invade Syria.
    Such as? Finishing the job of the "rebels" that the US has been funding?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •