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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Kildragon View Post
    Oh so you want to be able to still have Soulburn Soulswap? Well sure, but you get three uses per game, unless you kill something. You mean old Soul Shard mechanics don't work now since we don't have Soul Harvest and such? So what do you want then? Old mechanics or new? Anyways, back in the game.
    I hate SB:SS, Pandemic and MG. Overall I'm not a big fan of MoP Affli and I'm doing 98% PvE right now.

    Now to the burst part. Arenas right now are all about burst. Rotting a team doesn't work, period. Remember how much burst we had back then? Oh that's right, close to none. Haunt hit for shit and you never used Shadowbolt. Fel Flame also did shit damage, so yay for Fel Flame spam. Did you kill something yet? Nope? Damn shame! I thought you had a shot when you got him to 50%.
    I agree. Affli needs more pressure with procs or big single target hits. UA dispel has to get buffed too so it really hurts on both the dispeller and the one getting dispelled.

    They don't even need to change Affliction to make it useful in Arenas. They need to change healing. As soon as we move away from burst being the ONLY viable option to killing something Affliction will be in a much better spot. Especially since we now have the option to burst, just not in the 3-4 second window that is required right now.
    Yep healing is way too strong. Burst is way too strong. It makes the game too random.


    I'm a casual PvP player who haven't played lock on any higher rating at all so don't take my posts too seriously. I'm just coming with some ideas and I know I don't address all issues when I share my views.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 10:10 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kildragon View Post
    The only reason they did that is because people wanted spec specific Dark Souls instead of having them tied to pets. I actually really like the way they work right now and I don't understand why people want to change DS. We finally have a CD that's worth two shits and you want to get rid of it or change it? It's plenty strong for Affliction and actually plays into the new strengths of the spec in regards to burst.

    I do like the idea of adding Eradication back in, just perhaps with a new effect: Your Unstable Affliction ticks have X% chance to cause your next MG to have 50% reduced channeling time.

    This would spice the spec up a bit and it wouldn't feel too bad in PvE either. The DPS gain from it would also be minor in PvE over the course of a fight, but it would be great for some extra burst in PvP.
    The problem with haste procs/CDs in arenas is dispels and the reason why I'd like getting something that increases the actual dot damage like Int/SP/Mastery to provide pressure/burst.

  2. #22
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
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    I agree. Affli needs more pressure with procs or big single target hits.
    We have big single target hits with Haunt and we can have four of those in a row. That's pretty strong. Returning back to the old Cata model would take that away.

    UA dispel has to get buffed too so it really hurts on both the dispeller and the one getting dispelled.
    Buff UA dispel too much and it becomes too punishing. It hurts quite a bit right now and if used right can be very strong. Make it too powerful and healers will refuse to dispel against you, especially since they can't even get lucky now and not get UA with a dispel.

    Yep healing is way too strong. Burst is way too strong. It makes the game too random.
    Not random, it's actually the exact opposite, it becomes too predictable. High rated games right now basically devolve into one team bursting, other team trying to counter. They try to burst, you try to counter. Outside of CD's you might as well pick your nose because damage is too weak to do anything against decent healers.

    T
    he problem with haste procs/CDs in arenas is dispels and the reason why I'd like getting something that increases the actual dot damage like Int/SP/Mastery to provide pressure/burst.
    Not sure what you mean here. Dispels affect Mastery/Int/Haste procs all the same. A mastery CD would just make our DoTs stronger so getting dispelled does the same thing.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 03:23 PM ----------

    I hate SB:SS, Pandemic and MG. Overall I'm not a big fan of MoP Affli and I'm doing 98% PvE right now.
    I honestly don't understand how you can hate Affliction in PvE right now, when compared to Cata PvE. Haunt gave us a way to burst which we've never had before. The way Soul shards work now means that they actually get used, plus they give us great flexibility in encounters. We can either buff single target damage or burst with Haunt or we can fully DoT a target with SB:SW. The rotation isn't nearly as boring since it actually includes some adjusting to things and it feels much faster. Shadowbolt was painfully slow and boring and Haunt was a drag back then. Shadow Embrace was also a kick in the teeth since you had to cast SB or Haunt to apply it.

    They basically took the fluidity of Cata Affliction, added some spice, added some flavor and made it more enjoyable to play.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    Change DS to give us mastery or something on a 3 min CD and give us Eradication back. That way the DoT pressure becomes stronger and more frequent like Spriests and their 3x orb DP. I've never been a big fan of DS being a haste CD tbh.
    I loved eradication procs, would like alot to see it back maybe even for all specs.
    Warlock / IA Operative / Wizard / Engineer

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    I hate SB:SS, Pandemic and MG. Overall I'm not a big fan of MoP Affli and I'm doing 98% PvE right now.


    I agree. Affli needs more pressure with procs or big single target hits. UA dispel has to get buffed too so it really hurts on both the dispeller and the one getting dispelled.


    Yep healing is way too strong. Burst is way too strong. It makes the game too random.


    I'm a casual PvP player who haven't played lock on any higher rating at all so don't take my posts too seriously. I'm just coming with some ideas and I know I don't address all issues when I share my views.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 10:10 PM ----------


    The problem with haste procs/CDs in arenas is dispels and the reason why I'd like getting something that increases the actual dot damage like Int/SP/Mastery to provide pressure/burst.

    in cata the mini silence was needed.. right now i feel like glyph UA is more rewarding, depending on partners. i play with a war so basically all i'm there for is to shine his shoes and get off timely CS / fear. glyph seems to help with our pressure. i can understand why people would be resistent to this because for years glyph'n UA has been a horrible idea... but this is where we're at :[.

    anyways.. getting rid of MG is terrible idea and you should be shot. not only is it useful but it bumps the skill cap up a bit.

    personally i've never been a huge fan of haunt spamming for burst since the 10sec dot w. 25% more damage is the real prize. i feel like full dots +haunt dot = you have no excuse not to be MG'ing into that.. if your dropping under 2 shards in favor of a few more haunts it seems a bad use of resources. maybe at 85 when the dmg wasnt scaled sure.. now no. so using that as an argument for how 'good' we burst is kinda odd..

    we still need a little buff imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Kildragon View Post
    We have big single target hits with Haunt and we can have four of those in a row. That's pretty strong. Returning back to the old Cata model would take that away.
    Good point. I think many players are too used to spam SB:SS so they waste a lot of soul shards that could've been haunts.

    Not random, it's actually the exact opposite, it becomes too predictable. High rated games right now basically devolve into one team bursting, other team trying to counter. They try to burst, you try to counter. Outside of CD's you might as well pick your nose because damage is too weak to do anything against decent healers.
    There's still a lot of classes that have abilities that hit too hard outside of CD's but you have a good point. Playing the attacker/defender->reset game doesn't seem very fun.

    Not sure what you mean here. Dispels affect Mastery/Int/Haste procs all the same. A mastery CD would just make our DoTs stronger so getting dispelled does the same thing.
    I mean that haste doesn't make your dots tick faster (well sometimes but it's like 1s if you get close to a dot haste trehshold) so before they get dispelled they don't do enough damage, making DS fairly easy to handle and not that big of a threat from Affli locks.

    I honestly don't understand how you can hate Affliction in PvE right now, when compared to Cata PvE.
    To fully explain what I dislike about the spec now in PvE I would have to write a text so long that most people here would reply with TL;DR or I'd just bring the discussion in a different direction and slightly OT. The main problem I have is how forgiving is with the tools we have as SB:SS and Pandemic. I also hate the constant channeling (thank god they buffed KJC at least).

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Telila View Post
    *edit* And to those saying they like having the big PUSH ME NOW!! button...you realise it is the route of our current PvP issues right? As everyone and their dog has it macro'd to their on-use trinket for a stupid big jump in damage
    Wrong.

    The reason is PvP Power. Compensating for the loss of secondary stats which were implemented in the first place to prevent singular abilities from hitting too hard, with a stat that makes individual abilities hit harder is about the most retarded and regressive step this game has taken.

  7. #27
    PVP power gives some more dept to PVP gearing I like it, the numbers maybe to high its easy to get 45% pvp power before trinkets and that almost negates resilence
    Warlock / IA Operative / Wizard / Engineer

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellfury View Post
    PVP power gives some more dept to PVP gearing I like it, the numbers maybe to high its easy to get 45% pvp power before trinkets and that almost negates resilence
    Yeah, it fills it's role to keep PvE gear out of PvE, but it does it in a way that - like GrimSac - causes individual attacks to hit too hard. And the main problem in PvP right now seems to be that individual attacks are hitting too hard. Attacks just hitting progressively harder in PvE has always been tempered by secondary stats, which, being capped much lower in PvP and compensated with just hitting harder is what's causing the issue. To fix that, it's Primary stats need to be cut down on PvP gear and replaced with PvP Power; not the Secondary stats.

  9. #29
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Yeah, it fills it's role to keep PvE gear out of PvE, but it does it in a way that - like GrimSac - causes individual attacks to hit too hard. And the main problem in PvP right now seems to be that individual attacks are hitting too hard. Attacks just hitting progressively harder in PvE has always been tempered by secondary stats, which, being capped much lower in PvP and compensated with just hitting harder is what's causing the issue. To fix that, it's Primary stats need to be cut down on PvP gear and replaced with PvP Power; not the Secondary stats.
    That wouldn't fix anything at all.
    First of all, PvP power isn't the problem at all, the problem is the gap of damage between our strongest and our weakest abilities. When there's a 500k damagedifference ( speaking PvE now) between your strongest ability with cooldowns and your weakest witout cooldowns, there simply is no way you can get that properly balanced.

    Also, afaik 2 PvP power is about the same as 1 int. If you gonna nerf the int on pvp gear and you don't add twice the amount of that as pvp power, the next thing you'll see is people PvPing in PvE gear... Heck, if it wasn't for the fact that most PvPers don't care a lot about PvE, we would be PvPing in heroic PvE gear with resilience gems in it.

  10. #30
    The Patient Kaizers's Avatar
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    lol no, really no reason to remove DS. It's a pretty effective cooldown for all specs and the it's a very fun (subjective of course) button to press.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Wrong.

    The reason is PvP Power. Compensating for the loss of secondary stats which were implemented in the first place to prevent singular abilities from hitting too hard, with a stat that makes individual abilities hit harder is about the most retarded and regressive step this game has taken.

    Power is too high yes, bit is not a problem (Now it's been "fixed" anyway)

    Giving on-demand 4k ish sp + 18k mastery + Meta = Stupid hitting CW that got us nerfed because people don't know how to run around corners

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 11:13 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaizers View Post
    lol no, really no reason to remove DS. It's a pretty effective cooldown for all specs and the it's a very fun (subjective of course) button to press.
    DId you even read this thread?

  12. #32
    The Patient Kaizers's Avatar
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    Yep, if you have a problem with DS's effectiveness it's most likely because you aren't using it at the correct times. Also very much doubt it's going anywhere but good luck with your suggestions.

  13. #33
    You clearly didn't read anything, because you completely missed the point.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaizers View Post
    Yep, if you have a problem with DS's effectiveness it's most likely because you aren't using it at the correct times. Also very much doubt it's going anywhere but good luck with your suggestions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripley6174 View Post
    You clearly didn't read anything, because you completely missed the point.

    Exactly. Read the thread, then post

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Holy shit no, it took two expansions to get the damn thing. The days of "Blow you cooldowns!" "Urgh I don't have any. " Were bad. Really bad.
    The Shadow Priest section of the forums would like a word with you.

  16. #36
    Herald of the Titans nocturnus's Avatar
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    I personally think wow has horrible pvp. Nevertheless, it should be balanced for those who do enjoy it. The solution is actually very simple:

    - Make spells behave differently on players (e.g. Curse of Doom)

    This would give the developers space to actually balance pvp without having to worry about pve, which obviously shouldn't suffer due to a game-mode that isn't more than a hotfix in a pve game.

    This system works extremely well in GW2. Spells and abilities are regularly balanced in pvp, without any impact on pve.

    As for pve, please remove the doomguard. There's absolutely nothing challenging, or fun about pressing 1 button and having an automated character add damage to your output every 10 minutes. I'm stupefied this ability still even exists.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    The Shadow Priest section of the forums would like a word with you.
    Shadowfiend and Power Infusion?

    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnus View Post
    I personally think wow has horrible pvp. Nevertheless, it should be balanced for those who do enjoy it. The solution is actually very simple:

    - Make spells behave differently on players (e.g. Curse of Doom)

    This would give the developers space to actually balance pvp without having to worry about pve, which obviously shouldn't suffer due to a game-mode that isn't more than a hotfix in a pve game.

    This system works extremely well in GW2. Spells and abilities are regularly balanced in pvp, without any impact on pve.

    As for pve, please remove the doomguard. There's absolutely nothing challenging, or fun about pressing 1 button and having an automated character add damage to your output every 10 minutes. I'm stupefied this ability still even exists.
    Doomguard is fine, it may not be much skill but it gives us an extra option on serious burn phases.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Holy shit no, it took two expansions to get the damn thing. The days of "Blow you cooldowns!" "Urgh I don't have any. " Were bad. Really bad.
    This. I remember many cases when the raid leader was asking for everyone to pop all their dps cooldowns in a critical moment and I was thinking "ok, I'll use my trinket and a potion", those were the only dps cooldown warlocks had at some point. Having DS is an improvement to that.

  19. #39
    the best way from a pve and pvp pov would be to make the talents in tier 2 default to our class and put in the 3 version of dark soul there, so depending on spec you could actually have the version that benefits you the most. for example as afflic i would prefer the mastery version over the haste version and as demo i would(in my current gear) prefer haste over mastery.

    lol yeah 6kle, i remeber back in tbc the greatest dps increase you could get from a pot back then was actually from a mana potion which was bad in so many ways.

  20. #40
    I actually found it fun not to have to rely on burst CD do do damage. Am I the only one who remembers "damn it I have no cooldowns, can't pressure him!" "No worries, I've got constant damage".
    Also, our dependence on Dark Soul and burst in general is going to hurt us even more when PvP trinkets get nerfed since our constant damage sucks badly, unlike Shadowpriests or frost mages.

    PvP power was a stupid idea to begin with. They should've just prevented PvE items from being used in rated play or scale down all PvE gear while in arena/RBG...
    Melee vs caster balance in WoD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9F0Ehgx_Q8

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