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  1. #1

    The State of Rogues in PvP

    Hey everyone.

    I heard that rogues are pretty bad at this moment, is this true? I'd like to hear your opinions, because I'm thinking about coming back to WoW( I left in 4.3 because I started to play D3 and overall Cataclysm wasn't so good as other expansions).

    And also, are there are Guides for Rogue in PvP?(I don't mean something extreme, I just need something to start with, like Spec + Gearing)

    I will be very grateful for any answer.

  2. #2
    Rogues are in a pretty bad position now, yes.

    -The damage we deal compared to other classes outside of cooldowns is much lower and in cooldowns they double their damage while we get only a good increase, nothing special.

    -The healing other classses do and the survivability that comes from it is also a lot better than ours.

    -Other classes got pretty cool talents adding extra cc or better cc while i don't really think we get anything.

    -The whole shadowstep VS prep issue is very stupid.

    All in all you can solo a (bad) healer or hell just yesterday i killed a rdruid and a pala in wsg solo but you need to use a lot more buttons than before and actually outplay your opponents.
    If you come up against people that are actually good there is little chance you can kill them.

    In the end, i still play my rogue since i pvp casual arena and bgs and i love the playstyle but it certainly isnt what it was in 4.2 and 4.3

  3. #3
    well, some people are starting to go combat, because of killing spree and adrenaline rush being able to put out enough burst to kill someone in 1 combo, but after that, if the target is not dead for whatever reason, you are kind of screwed for the next few minutes.

    other specs got a hard time killing anyone with decent gear :/

  4. #4
    Thank you guys for the answers, I was looking forward for them. :-)

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer Speaknoevil's Avatar
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    -No baseline gap closer, 24s talented Shadowstep with nerfed movement speed bonus
    -Very low damage outside Shadowblades[Lol, passive damage cooldown]
    -Crippling Poison to 50%, redundant with PvP set bonus [70% shiv a loss] making backstabbing extremely painful
    -Low crit, no improved crit from talents
    -Incredibly long defensive cooldowns
    -Bad survivability
    -Deadly throw talented
    -Prey on the Weak somewhat mandatory in arena, but demolishes your kit by making gouge and blind break from your dots and cost a lot of energy
    -Boring gameplay [other classes have distinct feels to them, and rogues... like manning a trash npc]

    -Keeping Recuperate, Slice and Dice, Feint[if you're not taking cheat death which often does nothing] and Rupture active with poor CP generation only to do moderate to low damage with positional requirements is not fun.

    I would summarize rogues as bland and unrewarding.
    Silence fills the empty grave, now that I have gone.
    But my mind is not at rest, for questions linger on.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Speaknoevil View Post
    -No baseline gap closer, 24s talented Shadowstep with nerfed movement speed bonus
    -Very low damage outside Shadowblades[Lol, passive damage cooldown]
    -Crippling Poison to 50%, redundant with PvP set bonus [70% shiv a loss] making backstabbing extremely painful
    -Low crit, no improved crit from talents
    -Incredibly long defensive cooldowns
    -Bad survivability
    -Deadly throw talented
    -Prey on the Weak somewhat mandatory in arena, but demolishes your kit by making gouge and blind break from your dots and cost a lot of energy
    -Boring gameplay [other classes have distinct feels to them, and rogues... like manning a trash npc]

    -Keeping Recuperate, Slice and Dice, Feint[if you're not taking cheat death which often does nothing] and Rupture active with poor CP generation only to do moderate to low damage with positional requirements is not fun.

    I would summarize rogues as bland and unrewarding.
    And I'd add to your summary that they're not very rogue-like this season.

  7. #7
    It seems that I had right. Rogues are bad at this moment. Thanks for answers.

  8. #8
    I have tried All 3 specs. In mutt, I could kill some people but would have trouble with healers and then warriors when they are below 35% hp. They would just heal through my dmg output lol. Sub, Hell I couldn't kill anything in bgs. I mean to get a dmg buff you have to have rupture up. By the time you throw up all these extra abilities before your burst its just too late. Your dead or cced. Combat I have had the most success with. If I'm one on one with someone I can kill them in seconds. Its just too bad killing spree is a 3 minute cd. Looks like I'm staying combat for a while. GLHF

  9. #9
    honestly, everyone else has summarised it pretty well

    our damage with cooldowns is the same as everybody elses normal damage without cooldowns. combined with giving all our utility away to other classes and giving us nothing in return the simplest way to explain is with a really bad analogy!!

    player A runs at 130%.
    player B runs at 115% and is upset about this running slower then player A. even though they have other means lets say.. fear.

    in response to this. blizz said ok! its alright, we will simply give you more speed!

    Player A and B both now have 130%. however B.. still has fear.

    horrid analogy I know, but you get the idea, our toolkit was strong. and given out to other classes/specs. but we were given nothing in return but a shortchange on talents and crippled burst potential (I think the one thing people fail to mention is how alot of our passives that shouldve been 'rolled in' werent. such as +30% backstab crit. +5 energy return on crit.) you get the idea..

  10. #10
    Survivability and Mobility are our problems.

    This coupled with our dependance on our cds and how easy it shut is down.

  11. #11
    The the biggest, and only significant problem imo, is our lack of mobility, it is way too easy to lock down a rogue, or keep them peeled.
    Before I start here I would like to point out that I play combat; I disagree with our damage being bad, we still have one of the absolutely strongest tools for bursting down people = the smokebomb, if my targets trinket is on CD and I see their healer being a bit out of the way / CC'd I pop AR/SB as soon as I have 3+ combos on the target, land that final strike for the full 5, kidney for ~9 seconds and then just tear into them if they have any sort of instant peel, roots / fears etc use KS right when the kidney runs out to finish them off, if everything gets timed right you will also have shadowblades up for the Killing spree meaning that the auto attacks you land during your KS (or at least the first 3 seconds) will mean that you get that sweet sweet pure shadow dmg with a 50% increased dmg and 15% increased atk speed from AR <---- This, is some very nice unhealable burst. Same applies to dancing, you can do some massive dmg during a dance in a bomb.
    So in conclusion, I don't think our damage is bad. Rogues are, as with any other class at, completely reliant on gear to be viable. So our biggest problem atm is mobility, we have way to little of it, hopefully this will be fixed in 5.2 where Blizz have stated they will take a closer look at talents.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Lillemus View Post
    The the biggest, and only significant problem imo, is our lack of mobility, it is way too easy to lock down a rogue, or keep them peeled.
    Before I start here I would like to point out that I play combat; I disagree with our damage being bad, we still have one of the absolutely strongest tools for bursting down people = the smokebomb, if my targets trinket is on CD and I see their healer being a bit out of the way / CC'd I pop AR/SB as soon as I have 3+ combos on the target, land that final strike for the full 5, kidney for ~9 seconds and then just tear into them if they have any sort of instant peel, roots / fears etc use KS right when the kidney runs out to finish them off, if everything gets timed right you will also have shadowblades up for the Killing spree meaning that the auto attacks you land during your KS (or at least the first 3 seconds) will mean that you get that sweet sweet pure shadow dmg with a 50% increased dmg and 15% increased atk speed from AR <---- This, is some very nice unhealable burst. Same applies to dancing, you can do some massive dmg during a dance in a bomb.
    So in conclusion, I don't think our damage is bad. Rogues are, as with any other class at, completely reliant on gear to be viable. So our biggest problem atm is mobility, we have way to little of it, hopefully this will be fixed in 5.2 where Blizz have stated they will take a closer look at talents.
    So you think that because we have a gimmick spec with a gimmick ability that lets us do good damage ONCE EVERY THREE MINUTES our damage as a class is fine? Please step away from the internet.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Vital View Post
    So you think that because we have a gimmick spec with a gimmick ability that lets us do good damage ONCE EVERY THREE MINUTES our damage as a class is fine? Please step away from the internet.
    Dark soul 2 mins, recklessness 5 mins, ascendance 3 mins etc. etc.
    KS has a "2" min cd and AR/SB a "3" min cd, the reason I put them in quotation marks is that you cut off 2 seconds for every offensive combo point you land, you basically cut off at least the first 30 seconds during their own damn cd. Damage is NOT our problem, we can't annihilate our opponents like we did in Cata, but back then we were OP. The top tier rogues that rerolled, they didn't reroll because the damage was too low, they rerolled because warriors and ferals suddenly had more mobility and more CC than rogues did, and that's where Blizzard went wrong, not in the damage department.
    Edit: Will you shut your own internet down now?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Lillemus View Post
    Dark soul 2 mins, recklessness 5 mins, ascendance 3 mins etc. etc.
    KS has a "2" min cd and AR/SB a "3" min cd, the reason I put them in quotation marks is that you cut off 2 seconds for every offensive combo point you land, you basically cut off at least the first 30 seconds during their own damn cd. Damage is NOT our problem, we can't annihilate our opponents like we did in Cata, but back then we were OP. The top tier rogues that rerolled, they didn't reroll because the damage was too low, they rerolled because warriors and ferals suddenly had more mobility and more CC than rogues did, and that's where Blizzard went wrong, not in the damage department.
    Edit: Will you shut your own internet down now?
    i doubt you annihilated anything in cata. rogues were OP because of 2 stupid things blizzard made up alowing pve gear in pvp is a bad idea vial of shadows was over the top legendarys were not op at all at pvp nor pve you could easily out cc the wings buff
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues :

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine since 2004

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    i doubt you annihilated anything in cata. rogues were OP because of 2 stupid things blizzard made up alowing pve gear in pvp is a bad idea vial of shadows was over the top legendarys were not op at all at pvp nor pve you could easily out cc the wings buff
    Because rogue survivability in Cata was greatly affected by the things you brought up yes? And no, I barely played my rogue in Cata, I base it on watching streamers and reading about what the pro players say, since at my skill level, if I only had information from personal experience, said information would be quite useless

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Lillemus View Post
    Because rogue survivability in Cata was greatly affected by the things you brought up yes? And no, I barely played my rogue in Cata, I base it on watching streamers and reading about what the pro players say, since at my skill level, if I only had information from personal experience, said information would be quite useless
    Please stop posting.

    Infracted To others: don't continue this line of attacks.
    Last edited by Kael; 2012-12-06 at 10:14 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Vital View Post
    Please stop posting.
    Why should I?

  18. #18
    the rogue state in pvp is the same as the previous 2 guys above me bad like rly bad , the OP came here to ask for some answers and u guys turned into personal vendetas i;m right and u;re wrong . Numbers dont like less than 2% rogues over 2.2k should ring the bells u need Eazy

  19. #19
    Rogues are also bad in BGs, I know it's not representative and people care only about pro players who are rated > 2.2k in arena but I'm pretty sure a fair amount of rogues don't play at this level. I'm old and have been playing for a long time but I'm just an average player and used to enjoy playing BGs.
    It's not the case anymore, honestly I never really understood why PvP should be balanced for the 2vs2 or 3vs3 brackets >2k rating.

    Anyway, rogues kind of suck at PvP in all forms at the moment. At least I can say that the class suck not only in competitive PvP (from what I hear) but also for casual players running BGs.


    ps: I'm drunk and probably shouldn't have posted that

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    i doubt you annihilated anything in cata. rogues were OP because of 2 stupid things blizzard made up alowing pve gear in pvp is a bad idea vial of shadows was over the top legendarys were not op at all at pvp nor pve you could easily out cc the wings buff
    I instinctively hate people who claim the legendary daggers were OP in PvP... They were not. They had the same ilvl as conquest pvp-weapons and the legendary proc was useless in a pvp environment.

    Vial was op. Daggers were not. (Not directed at you, just pointing this out in general)
    Last edited by Incineration; 2012-12-06 at 11:58 PM.

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