No Progressive Nerfs = Point of FoS's?

[Deleted]

Normals are perfectly PuGable.

No you can do them easy with twink dudes but not with normal pug-dudes. Random Tanks will kill your group on first boss. If you succeed you might end up 4/6. Elegon will stop most average pugs. If you get further: nice!
Elegon is a complete joke. On hc he is a total wimp with nearly no more difficulty than normal - but on normal he is just... Nah not doable for most average players.
Problem of most Pugs is that most of them are casuals knowing LFR or have maybe a 2/6 4/6 guild for some brighter days. You could easily do DS 8/8 with them but not MGV or HoS. You might be able to kill some bosses but that's it. No more doing the Karazhan. Bad thing for altoholics like me who have mates with rl who don't want to raid with 3 different chars per week.

I have to guild hop to actually get my alts ready. Guilds with potential and 1-2 raid-days are rare. Most of them are new founded and I might help them out till the time they want more than I myself. Casual Guilds wipe forever on certain bosses and you cannot help them in any way. Best thing are organized twink raids from ~top20 realm guilds. But even those have gotten rare on my realm.

[Deleted]

No you can do them easy with twink dudes but not with normal pug-dudes. Random Tanks will kill your group on first boss. If you succeed you might end up 4/6. Elegon will stop most average pugs. If you get further: nice!
Elegon is a complete joke. On hc he is a total wimp with nearly no more difficulty than normal - but on normal he is just... Nah not doable for most average players.
Problem of most Pugs is that most of them are casuals knowing LFR or have maybe a 2/6 4/6 guild for some brighter days. You could easily do DS 8/8 with them but not MGV or HoS. You might be able to kill some bosses but that's it. No more doing the Karazhan. Bad thing for altoholics like me who have mates with rl who don't want to raid with 3 different chars per week.

I have to guild hop to actually get my alts ready. Guilds with potential and 1-2 raid-days are rare. Most of them are new founded and I might help them out till the time they want more than I myself. Casual Guilds wipe forever on certain bosses and you cannot help them in any way. Best thing are organized twink raids from ~top20 realm guilds. But even those have gotten rare on my realm.

I guess it depends on your realm and your connections. Yes, I had fail PuGs, but I also had good PuGs. I don't assume we clear everything. I look at players capabilities before the raid even starts. While generally I do PuG with alts, I don't mind new players (although having cleared LFR is something I assume). It all depends if a new player can pick up mechanics (and their role). I've seen players who never did LFR do very good, and I also have seen players who supposedly had HC achievement fail miserably. Elegon is like Ultraxion: pretty soon people are going to do this boss on HC. The DPS requirements are a little bit different and the timing of killing the adds and such, sure a little bit harder, but this boss will be farmed on HC. If not only for the awesome BiS trinket he drops for casters.

[NeverStop]

blizzard dont want to give out 5% nerfs because they want to make sure they can suck alot of money out of their players before they do anything.

problem is however this isnt fun, beying stuck at elegon and having the whole guild given up and moved to hof instead because, thats my case, so now im stuck at a point
where I cant do mogu and therefore as a hunter i cant get my hands on a weapon, so i thought sure they will bring in a 5% nerf then we should be able to do this.

it's sad that a encounter in a normal mode raid has to be this hard as elegon is, everyone has to output 100% or it's a fail,, wait, isnt this normal mode?.. i understand in heroic everyone has to output 100% to get past bosses but in normal mode this doesnt make sence at all, now knowing there is no nerf incomig im glad i took the decition to cancel my subscription and as of now my account is frozen, I had enough.

sure you can say those people suck sure, isnt that what normal mode is for so those who arent outputting the max can clear the content?
those who can do everything perfect they can do heroics?

Keep wiping till you get it. This isn't Dragon Soul where anyone can do 8/8 normal in the first week. If you throw your hands in the air and give up, you'll never improve.

[Seezer]

So GC said that progressive nerfs are unlikely to happen this tier. If so, what's the point of the FoS from heroic raiding, other than "I didn't go back and lol this boss on Heroic in T16 LFR gear"? The feat specifically mentions the debuffs last I checked. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...achievement#81 see descriptions.

Personally, I don't see why they wouldn't have some progressive nerfs - there are still a lot of guilds stuck on normal Elegon and Garalon, and if they cannot progress they'll probably just unsub or quit playing very much. Like it or not, these guys pay more of the sub fees than "we killed Sha of Fear first week" guilds do, PERIOD. Maybe not derp 35% total nerf like in DS, maybe 5% every 2 months or something a bit lower/slower. Or, go in and manually make changes to certain fights on Normal to remove the stupid from them, like 30 extra seconds on Garalon, or less health on Elegon, etc. People getting super stuck is NOT good for the game. But neither are super sudden nerfs like the late FL nerfs.

Elegon (N): 17177 (52.13%)
Garalon (N): 9895 (30.03%)

Because they're still nerfing the encounters over time? Just because they aren't "progressive nerfs" doesn't mean they aren't nerfs.

[TheWindWalker]

If any nerfs I do NOT want 5% stacking nerfs, its a bad and lazy way of doing it.

Go inn and modify specific abblities by hand, and likely remove mechanics over time, or just make it much easiere to overcome.

See this I agree with fully. If they ever go back and nerf things significantly on bosses people get stuck on, then it should be very specific. Things that once they're in it's very obvious and not something as minor as "the boss itself has (x*nerf#)% less HP but rather reductions to mechanics.

For example:

Stone Guardians will never have two "ground effect" dogs at the same time.
Elegon's orbs have 10% reduced HP and the "pillar adds" move slower upon striking an enemy.
Bladelord's Unseen Strike having 10% reduced damage and an additional 5 seconds from time of announcement till the strike lands.
Garalon's Legs having 5% reduced HP and the constant raid damage be toned down by 25% and then stacking from that.
Windlord's minions have 10% less HP and the impaling spear CC lasts twice as long. Also his Glaive Toss damage is 25% weaker.
Ambershaper's MC forms lose willpower 25% slower.
Shekzeer's adds attack/casting speed is 25% slower.
Tsulong's Day phase is 20 seconds longer than his night phase.
Lei Shi's Splash debuff is 8% increased frost damage down from 12% per stack. One fewer add.

[Raxxed]

They'll probably make the feats unobtainable after 5.2 hits - would be the most logical solution.

[Justusy]

It really is all about having a plan. I run a x2 day a week that does things like kill heroic ragnaros while current content, because we actually plan and study.. instead of banging our heads against things. Sure we have good players at this point, but that's another perk of planning and studying -- good people want to get involved with you.

I do agree that the item level upgrade is a nice hidden roundabout nerf, but I also think most guilds would see more improvement than any nerf provides if every member opened the dungeon journal and spent the 10-15minutes to read all of the boss abilities, and the posts their team leader made about strategy (assuming they do any). Also for players to spend the time to read the opening post of any of the class forums here on mmo about how to play.

[Mammoon]

They'll probably make the feats unobtainable after 5.2 hits - would be the most logical solution.

This. I am almost positive there was a blue post stating the FoSs wouldn't be available when the next raid opens.

It is pretty obvious... but that is why the FoSs still exist. While it may not be an issue for a good raiding guild or a larger servers, there are still tons of guilds out there that didn't become Dragonslayers or Firelords til like 3 months before MoP hit. The FoS is there to show the difference between those players and the ones who can do it while it is still relevant and difficult.

[Deleted]

This. I am almost positive there was a blue post stating the FoSs wouldn't be available when the next raid opens.

It is pretty obvious... but that is why the FoSs still exist. While it may not be an issue for a good raiding guild or a larger servers, there are still tons of guilds out there that didn't become Dragonslayers or Firelords til like 3 months before MoP hit. The FoS is there to show the difference between those players and the ones who can do it while it is still relevant and difficult.

Yep, I remember it being said too. Can't find the post, but they will be gone after a new raid hits. I suppose they just included the text just in case, and seeing that the people are progressing ok they will leave the nerfs for after 5.2 hits.

---------- Post added 2012-12-09 at 11:31 AM ----------

Oh, they said it in the method interview with Rogerbrown.