Theorycrafting question about 3043 haste break point for resto

[napalm007]

So I was trying to optimize my resto druid statwise, and I noticed something interesting. Theorycrafting suggests aiming for the 3043 haste breakpoint since it gives rejuv and tranq an extra tick. However, what theorycrafting doesn't take into account is that the target will probably be topped off before the hot expires. Therefore, that last tick will usually overheal and not contribute to throughput. With that in mind, would going for the 3043 haste breakpoint even be worth it?

[Soraka]

The phases of encounters where healing matters the most are the phases where there is extended raidwide damage. In those situations, rejuv will tick for its full duration and tranq will tick for its full duration. If people stay topped always, no matter what, you're either brought too many healers and/or you outgear the content. As a rule of thumb, we gear for when healing is hard, not to worry about overhealing when healing is light. Also as a side note, try your best to cast rejuv when you think it will tick for its full duration. You can also ask healers to not worry so much about non-tanks that are above 80% if it's a major problem (something they should be doing knowing they are healing with a resto druid). Work with your other healers, its bad use of their mana to spam heals on target that already has enough HoTs on him to heal him up safely.

[Old]

Rejuvenation lasts 12 sec whether is has 4 or 5 ticks. Only the frequency the spells heals is increased. At 0 haste, your Rejuvenation ticks every 3s (3x4=12). At the first breakpoint your Rejuv ticks every 2,4s (2,4x5=12).

It means that you do the same healing in 9,6s with haste breakpoint as you do in 12s with no haste. And you have a free tick 2.4s after.

If you last tick overheals with 5 ticks, it will as well with 4 because for both situation, the last tick comes at 12s. Only that you will have 1 more tick "before".

You can see slight differences in timing etc... but overall you got the point. Going for another tick is always a good thing if you want to compare before/after let aside the stat loss.

On top of that, previous breakpoint would be 860. Atm I have something like 2000 incompressible haste (in ilvl 500) which would mean around 1200 stat waste.

[napalm007]

I just checked, and reaching that breakpoint with the haste buff increases the duration of rejuv by about 2 seconds and makes each tick about .1 seconds faster. This means that the haste break point really only increases the duration of rejuv. While this would be ideal where there is constant AOE damage, most fights require people to be topped off quickly. This is why the last tick of rejuv is likely to overheal. Most of the time, the raid needs to be topped off quickly, long before your rejuvs can expire. Even with perfect healer coordination, your rejuvs are likely to be sniped to reduce the chances of someone dying. Reforging all haste to mastery would not only make your heals burstier, but also more efficient, since haste increases the rate at which you consume mana. Unless a fight has constant AOE damage, like Garalon, I'm thinking that it would be more effective to just have as little haste as possible seeing as our weakness is burst AOE healing.

BTW forgot to mention, I play a troll druid, and I can use Berserking right before I use tranq. So, that break point only affects rejuv for me.

[Ashrr]

Hmmm, like Owld said, I was under the impression that Rejuvenation is 12 seconds but your reply made me question myself. So I quickly went in game and tested. Here's what I found -

Without 5% spell haste:



With 5% spell haste:



I thought it might be a tooltip error but I'm also seeing the duration difference in my buffs when I cast it on myself.

However, I'd still go for the breakpoint because I'm only reforging about 400 stats into Haste to obtain it and an extra tick is definitely beneficial on fights where the healing really matters. One thing to note is that even if your HoTs overheal most of the time, there are still fights with healing intensive phase where they will tick as much as possible. The other thing is no matter how we gem or reforge, we won't suddenly turn into some sort of burst healing machine who can top off people as quickly as other classes can. So we gear for scenarios best suited for our class.

[Maxvla]

You could just as well reforge down instead of up to pick up mastery instead of haste.

[Deleted]

I might be wrong, but as far as I know, every point of hast reduces the duration of our hots.
Until you reach a breakpoint, where the hot has the full duration again, but gains an additional tick.

In summary, every point of haste reduces the time between the hot ticks. And on the breakpoints the hot is on max duration but with an additional tick.

[Old]

This is not a tooltip error as I have the same apparently. They might have changed it recently and I was unaware of this. Anyway, it is quite irrelevant considering the fact that you will end up with a large amount of haste you cannot reforge.

But it remains that having another tick does not increase the duration between 2 ticks, it only provides a free tick. Therefore it takes even less time to make use of 4 ticks of your Rejuv with the first breakpoint.

The gain of another tick on rejuvenation is close to a 25% flat increase of the spell that represent up to 30% of your healing.

Please do not put words such as "burst healing" anywhere near the word "hot". Even if there was one, the difference between 11s and 13s is ridiculous in term of burst healing. It is entirely situational.

You get a free extra tick on a spell that has 11s and if we follow your reasoning, anything after 5-6s would be overhealing. Not to mention the fact that this would make sense only if you could have all your Rejuvenations timer starting at the very same moment on everyone of your targets.

Because you are technically saying that only your first rejuvenation after the damage would potentially be fully used and not overheal. Because rolling Rejuv takes time and each Rejuv would start 1s after the previous.

I could go on.

Hots are designed to overheal. But they are also designed to be there when another spike of damage comes. There is close to no major burst healing @ Nefarian crackle (if have ever faced it) in the bosses. If you want burst healing, don't bring a druid in your raid, problem solved.

[Thalur]

I might be wrong, but as far as I know, every point of hast reduces the duration of our hots.
Until you reach a breakpoint, where the hot has the full duration again, but gains an additional tick.

In summary, every point of haste reduces the time between the hot ticks. And on the breakpoints the hot is on max duration but with an additional tick.

This is correct. Haste brings HoT ticks closer together and the breakpoint is when an additional tick can be added at the end. The additional tick is added when it occurs less than 1.5s after the "official" hot length.

The haste breakpoint is very useful because in most situations where it matters, Rejuv ticks are not overheal. In Elegon P3, my rejuv overheal is < 10%. Garalon gives me < 10% for the whole fight. Etc., you see where I'm going with that. And a stronger rejuv on the tank is always a good idea.

What would you get for not going for the breakpoint? For my gear, about 500 mastery (can't reforge to less than 2500 haste). The haste breakpoint is way, way better than that.

---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 11:24 AM ----------

This is not a tooltip error as I have the same apparently. They might have changed it recently and I was unaware of this.

No no, it has always been like that. The more haste you get, the closer your ticks get together. An additional tick is added at the end, when it occurs less than half of the tick time after the "official" 12s duration. Only the tooltips never displayed it quite like that, but that's how it worked at least since WotLK.