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  1. #21
    Is this a troll thread? I cannot believe rogues are crying. Do you guys even play your rogues?


    http://imgur.com/dp2Hf

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmbringe View Post
    Rets are Blizzard's favourite child. Following vanilla and ever since (2006), they have been the most OP spec in the history of the game with the possible exception of WOTLK DK's. In fact, Rets qualify as one of the most OP specs in the history of MMORG's in general. Key abilities include:

    -The longest stun in the World of Warcraft ever.
    -Immunity to being kited.
    -Bubble that make one completely immune to damage while still being able to attack.
    -Abilities such as Lay On Hands that instantly restore one's health to 100%.
    -Infinite Mana.
    -Ability to use hearthstone (RECALL) while being bubbled.
    -Excellent heals while dishing out excellent DPS with no penalty on their DPS.
    -Excellent DPS cooldowns completely unsuited for a DPS/Healing hybrid such as Ret.
    -Immunity to being griefed or ganked while out in the world questing. If you go one-to-one with a Ret you will lose, if you go two versus one against a Ret you will still lose, and if you try to go three to one against a Ret they will just bubble and hearthstone.
    -Excellent in soloing Raid content.
    -Fastest mount speed in the World of Warcraft.

    Recent bonus abilities:

    -Pet
    -DOTS
    -Snare
    -An ability similar to Rogue ability Sprint
    -Ranged execute
    -Several Ranged DPS abilities

    ------------------------------------->With all the above in mind, it is not hard to see why there are more Rets than Rogues.
    Not sure if trolling

  3. #23
    The Lightbringer Lovestar's Avatar
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    Why do so many people appear in this thread just to announce they don't find the topic interesting? I'm confused.

    Well, if that's considered valid discussion then I'll hop in with great excitement and wave my flag around while cheering "I find this topic interesting!" and also adding nothing more productive.

    HUZZAH! I LOVE VAGUE BUT RELEVANT CLASS DEMOGRAPHIC COMPARISONS!

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by RH exact View Post
    Is this a troll thread? I cannot believe rogues are crying. Do you guys even play your rogues?


    http://imgur.com/dp2Hf
    obviously you don't or you would know that list has been a joke since beta. subtlety is our worst spec, not our best, and the margin between combat and the other two specs is laughable as well. no one knows how they did their calculations, but theyre assuredly incorrect.
    and no one here is crying, once you get some gear rogues aren't bad, but the beginning of this tier was terrible for us. When people aren't having fun playing a class, they stop playing that class...especially at the beginning of an expansion when it's easiest to reroll. The statistic from GC in the title is pretty indicative of just how many people stopped enjoying the current incarnation of rogue. There are a lot things they could fix to make the class better, our talent tree is a great starting place. and all of these things were reported a multitude of times during beta and ignored. That's what this thread is about.

  5. #25
    Field Marshal Dre4m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RH exact View Post
    Is this a troll thread? I cannot believe rogues are crying. Do you guys even play your rogues?


    http://imgur.com/dp2Hf
    Do people still find these sims belivable? It's a joke really.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenia View Post
    The thread's title and the OP's post don't imply that it's the same subject, but w/e. I'm out of this non constructive pointless thread.
    I think someone needs a nice sit down, a cup of tea, biscuit and maybe a nap.

    The knee-jerk defence of ret wasn't really needed. When an iconic pure damage class is being played less than a generally low-balled spec (we've been generally unloved as a damage class since inception till Wrath era and still kinda "ok" at best since) it's fair indication there's a problem with the class being compared. That's all he was trying to say dear.

    I'm Ret too, I enjoy it, too. Let's agree that we're awesome but rogues aren't in a good place now and the comparison used is a fair one hmm?
    Last edited by mercutiouk; 2012-12-06 at 11:12 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille
    I knew it would be useful to be french at some point.
    Quote Originally Posted by xxAkirhaxx
    just get a mac. It's like sleeping with a fat chick to avoid STD's.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmbringe View Post
    Rets are Blizzard's favourite child. Following vanilla and ever since (2006), they have been the most OP spec in the history of the game with the possible exception of WOTLK DK's. In fact, Rets qualify as one of the most OP specs in the history of MMORG's in general. Key abilities include:

    -The longest stun in the World of Warcraft ever.
    -Immunity to being kited.
    -Bubble that make one completely immune to damage while still being able to attack.
    -Abilities such as Lay On Hands that instantly restore one's health to 100%.
    -Infinite Mana.
    -Ability to use hearthstone (RECALL) while being bubbled.
    -Excellent heals while dishing out excellent DPS with no penalty on their DPS.
    -Excellent DPS cooldowns completely unsuited for a DPS/Healing hybrid such as Ret.
    -Immunity to being griefed or ganked while out in the world questing. If you go one-to-one with a Ret you will lose, if you go two versus one against a Ret you will still lose, and if you try to go three to one against a Ret they will just bubble and hearthstone.
    -Excellent in soloing Raid content.
    -Fastest mount speed in the World of Warcraft.

    Recent bonus abilities:

    -Pet
    -DOTS
    -Snare
    -An ability similar to Rogue ability Sprint
    -Ranged execute
    -Several Ranged DPS abilities

    ------------------------------------->With all the above in mind, it is not hard to see why there are more Rets than Rogues.
    I think it's hilarious that this post was apparently made in context of PvP, because Rogues have been the single best PvP class in the game for a large part of the entire game's history largely due to their stunning capabilities(something that you give the edge to Paladins for one spell that has been nerfed time and time again).

    Also, Ret Paladins are pretty worthless in PvP now that PvP power has been adjusted for hybrids and their heals are awful. Even prior to the nerf they were bad at killing anyone and could just heal all day. Now they're just bad at killing anyone.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by RH exact View Post
    Is this a troll thread? I cannot believe rogues are crying. Do you guys even play your rogues?


    http://imgur.com/dp2Hf
    As a recently switched this expansion Ret pally (though melee class all-star) I'm smoking the crap out of our guilds career rogue in crappier gear on all fights but Garalon (where blade flurry makes rogues super-imba). That would indicate they have a problem
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille
    I knew it would be useful to be french at some point.
    Quote Originally Posted by xxAkirhaxx
    just get a mac. It's like sleeping with a fat chick to avoid STD's.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by mercutiouk View Post
    I think someone needs a nice sit down, a cup of tea, biscuit and maybe a nap.

    The knee-jerk defence of ret wasn't really needed. When an iconic pure damage class is being played less than a generally low-balled spec it's fair indication there's a problem with the class being compared. That's all he was trying to say dear.

    I'm Ret too, I enjoy it, too. Let's agree that we're awesome but rogue aren't in a good place now and the comparison used is a fair one hmm?
    Dear lord, do I detect civility and logic? *checking URL to make sure I'm still where I think I am*

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by mercutiouk View Post
    As a recently switched this expansion Ret pally (though melee class all-star) I'm smoking the crap out of our guilds career rogue in crappier gear on all fights but Garalon (where blade flurry makes rogues super-imba). That would indicate they have a problem
    And my rogue beats out other players, and there are rogues I know who play far better than I do in similar gear :P

    Rogue damage isn't the reason so many have switched characters. Personally, I switched for my raid for healthstones, portals, mobility (what?), multi-dotting and not having more melee. It just works better for me atm, although I have to say recently that I'm finding affliction's gameplay more compelling than anything I've done in WoW since Firelands Subtlety.

  11. #31
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RH exact View Post
    Is this a troll thread? I cannot believe rogues are crying. Do you guys even play your rogues?


    http://imgur.com/dp2Hf
    I hold a lot of respect for SimC, even if the results are a bit odd for Rogues (they're not massively off, mind). But the major complaints right now are far more in line with actual spec enjoyment.

    Most rogues appreciate that they are in a nice place dps wise. However, the way we obtain this position is incredibly dull. In addition, many of our talents and most of our glyphs are very poor and uninteresting.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  12. #32
    Oh sorry, let me link you something you may actually believe.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...ination_Rogue/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...ution_Paladin/

    Don't dismiss something because you simply want a buff. My previous comment stands.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmbringe View Post
    Rets are Blizzard's favourite child. Following vanilla and ever since (2006), they have been the most OP spec in the history of the game with the possible exception of WOTLK DK's. In fact, Rets qualify as one of the most OP specs in the history of MMORG's in general. Key abilities include:

    -The longest stun in the World of Warcraft ever.
    -Immunity to being kited.
    -Bubble that make one completely immune to damage while still being able to attack.
    -Abilities such as Lay On Hands that instantly restore one's health to 100%.
    -Infinite Mana.
    -Ability to use hearthstone (RECALL) while being bubbled.
    -Excellent heals while dishing out excellent DPS with no penalty on their DPS.
    -Excellent DPS cooldowns completely unsuited for a DPS/Healing hybrid such as Ret.
    -Immunity to being griefed or ganked while out in the world questing. If you go one-to-one with a Ret you will lose, if you go two versus one against a Ret you will still lose, and if you try to go three to one against a Ret they will just bubble and hearthstone.
    -Excellent in soloing Raid content.
    -Fastest mount speed in the World of Warcraft.

    Recent bonus abilities:

    -Pet
    -DOTS
    -Snare
    -An ability similar to Rogue ability Sprint
    -Ranged execute
    -Several Ranged DPS abilities

    ------------------------------------->With all the above in mind, it is not hard to see why there are more Rets than Rogues.
    I give you my response in video format:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    And my rogue beats out other players, and there are rogues I know who play far better than I do in similar gear :P

    Rogue damage isn't the reason so many have switched characters. Personally, I switched for my raid for healthstones, portals, mobility (what?), multi-dotting and not having more melee. It just works better for me atm, although I have to say recently that I'm finding affliction's gameplay more compelling than anything I've done in WoW since Firelands Subtlety.
    Well, I spent most of my Glory years (end of Vanilla till end of Wrath most of it as a rogue raid leader) as a rogue. As a class it's lovely to play and it's a shame to see them hurting at the moment. I'm pretty sure I could still un-pack my swords, maces, fists (screw daggers, COMBAT ROGUE FOR LIFE!!!) and blow away most folks as it's a class I have a massive personal affinity for (not saying I'm awesome, I'm saying I "click" amazingly well with rogue, it's like pulling on an old pair of much loved jeans). It doesn't mean they don't have issues at the moment though and that's all the poor OP was trying to point out
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille
    I knew it would be useful to be french at some point.
    Quote Originally Posted by xxAkirhaxx
    just get a mac. It's like sleeping with a fat chick to avoid STD's.

  15. #35
    Pit Lord Bryntrollian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dre4m View Post
    Actually it does, his title implies that rogues are under played for some reason. His post explains that the case might be the current rogue talents and that it will maybe be fixed in 5.2.

    What is there to not get here?
    What more could you possibly expect from someone that plays a paladin ?
    Synek - best rogue in the world
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I don't think I know what the acronym "tsg" is. It's not RBG's or Arena, random battlegrounds, or any form of dungeon or raid that I can think of. What does it mean?

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by RH exact View Post
    Oh sorry, let me link you something you may actually believe.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...ination_Rogue/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...ution_Paladin/
    Don't dismiss something because you simply want a buff. My previous comment stands.
    Please find me one instance of the claim "Retribution Paladins do more damage than Rogues"...because that's what you're attempting to disprove with these links. No one has said that. If you're too dense to read the thread before contributing, go see if that guy from page one will share his Crayolas.

    Now to illustrate why your claim was dismissed...
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...ubtlety_Rogue/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...ination_Rogue/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/.../Combat_Rogue/

    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    I'm finding affliction's gameplay more compelling than anything I've done in WoW since Firelands Subtlety.
    Firelands subtlety was hands down my favorite raiding as a rogue...even if I did have to answer the question "Y R U SUB PVE?!" from every clueless tool who inspected me. Sub caught on heavily in DS, so luckily I stopped having to explain "because it's the top single target damage spec".
    Last edited by Infective; 2012-12-06 at 11:29 AM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Bryntrollian View Post
    What more could you possibly expect from someone that plays a paladin ?
    Oi! Let's all keep a civil tongue. The knee-jerk reply was a bit off colour but Paladins are people too! /sadfaced ex-rogue

    Actually, as one small point there's something to keep in mind:

    Rogues ALWAYS suck balls in the first tier of a new expansion. They are VERY gear dependant (as are most melee that don't rely on some sort of spellpower conversion type mechanic which basically means Warriors too). As gear improves expect to be back on top again.

    Warriors tend to be a bit of a "favoured child" hence the nerf bat gets broken out every tier as they start too high with the crappy gear and get massively stronger with each tier of upgrades.

    There will be a boatload of rogues again by the end of the expansion.
    Last edited by mercutiouk; 2012-12-06 at 11:28 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille
    I knew it would be useful to be french at some point.
    Quote Originally Posted by xxAkirhaxx
    just get a mac. It's like sleeping with a fat chick to avoid STD's.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Infective View Post
    Please find me one instance of the claim "Retribution Paladins do more damage than Rogues"...because that's what you're attempting to disprove with these links. No one has said that. If you're too dense to read the thread before contributing, go see if that guy from page one will share his Crayolas.

    Now to illustrate why your claim was dismissed...
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...ubtlety_Rogue/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...ination_Rogue/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/.../Combat_Rogue/
    Damage is all that matters. Want to PvP? Just go find a Priest and a Mage.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by RH exact View Post
    Oh sorry, let me link you something you may actually believe.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...ination_Rogue/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...ution_Paladin/

    Don't dismiss something because you simply want a buff. My previous comment stands.
    No, it doesn't. Your assumption is that we care about our damage relative to other people (as it stands) and that is the primary complaint. Rogue damage is fine. The class is BORING compared to where it's been in the past, and uninteresting in theory. Check out the rogue talents for PvE! How compelling is that compared to the old talent tree? Here's a hint: there's a right choice for everything but elusiveness/leeching poison, or they don't affect PvE at all. Glyphs? We're in the same place as talents.

    As the OP mentions, we're hoping for changes to talents in 5.2 (but unfortunately we're mostly looking at numerical tweaks). What gave anyone the idea rogues are complaining about their DPS? Personally I'd like to see sub actually outdamaging assassination when it's played well, but eh, mostly I just don't want them to be boring anymore. With very few exceptions, I can play my rogue with 1-5 and S1-5, where my warlock is using those, and q/e/f/g and their shifts, the odd 6-= that I haven't had the time to remap yet, and some things I put around to click because I just don't have the patience to learn more new bindings right now.

  20. #40
    Dreadlord Msi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RH exact View Post
    Oh sorry, let me link you something you may actually believe.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...ination_Rogue/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...ution_Paladin/

    Don't dismiss something because you simply want a buff. My previous comment stands.
    No 1 here is saying ROGUES ARE BAD BUFF US God... we just want some nice new changes since there isn't much changed since vanilla.
    Our greatest influences will always define us.

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