This 100%.GC may have been trying to point out that there are a LOT of rets out there, but you can't make the comparison without wondering why a single spec out-numbers 3 other specs, which happen to comprise a class.
Honestly, I suspect the devs have this discussion a lot, and I think a couple years ago they decided that the rogue community didn't have much else for them. But when they USED to listen to us, how glorious it was. Deadly Throw originated on the WoW rogue forums, in response to the devs asking "so, what would you guys like?". Cloak of Shadows did too. Technically shadowstep was in that thread, but not with that name, and I'm sure "teleport to their back" doesn't require a great deal of thought. Throughout the years, rogues have been top damage in entire tiers, and not often awful. Rogues have had success in some pvp seasons as well, but it is often a bit cloaked there:WoW has updated a lot, and classes have changed in lots of ways to make them more dynamic (and often easier) but the primary rogue changes made them easier to play and failed to update rogue mobility, while everyone else got more. These are the prime issues with rogues that (probably) lead to our class being highly underplayed.
I remember how much power vial of shadows added. I also remember having to play around it prenerf, especially versus rogue/mage/something teams if the mage had a burst trinket too. I never had glaives, but I remember having to use a different strategy to beat them. I remember how brutal it was to heal versus them on my druid, as they would just tunnel down the felpup (glaives gave an AP bonus versus demons), and if no demon existed, my SL/SL lock couldn't stay up versus anything, least of all oranges. And of course, I saw these glaive wielding rogues, and later the vial rogues, in almost every game, because that's how the rating system works.
So these mechanics were only available to rogues who were all about pve and pvp, and everyone saw that in pvp and screamed their heads off about it. Rogues are a pretty hated class by a decent chunk of the wow population, because their kit is controlled, and people don't like being controlled. Any time rogues are above 10% arena rep at high ratings, the melee hybrids start screaming their heads off, because "rogues outnumber rets at high rated arena", all the while being blind to their class having some dominating percentage because of the huge holy rep (and sometimes in the past, prot rep), as if rogue were some offspec of cat druid or something. Even expected rep for rogues features massive anti-rogue tears, because rogues are taking the melee jobs that they deserve (three melee specs = you get the melee job or the devs fucked up).
And when rogues are OVERREPPED? ERMAHGERD!!!
Last season's rogues aren't as powerful as this season's warriors, and last seasons warriors were almost an order of magnitude better than this season's rogues, yet the anti-rogue hate that dribbles out constantly is just as vile as it was during a season where we actually were overtuned- but not by enough to be mandatory, or uncounterable.
So what does this come to?
Players who main other classes and are looking for an alt to run ask themselves some questions. If the player only cares about themselves- aka, they don't plan to raid, or they just want to experience what it is to be a mage in pvp- then the only question is, 'what class do I want to play'. But say there's an alt run that you could get into that runs on saturday, and you could play in a real raid that way, or say you want to run with your friends and make a good comp, then you ask questions like 'what does that run need', 'what are good comps this season', 'what works with class X that my buddy is running'. And then you ask stuff like 'does that class need a certain thing to work'.
So if you are deciding between, say, warrior and rogue, two classes with some thematic overlap, a big question is going to relate to how much you like stealth. Another is going to relate to whether you will ever want to tank. It's much faster to queue dungeons as a tank, much easier to pull big numbers as a tank (for all gear levels except max level purps), much easier for daddy tank and mommy healer to take the kids on a dungeon run. If all you see of the game is solo questing and dungeons (and for many players, that is the game), then a rogue is just a broken warrior with an afk button. You need to get much deeper in the game for the rogue to offer much to you besides stealth.
I've played this rogue since August following the game's launch- essentially my whole WoW time has been on Verain. During the last several years, I've tried to goad guildies into rolling rogue alts, with varying degrees of success. Most of my guild doesn't pvp that much, but even then it's been hard to sell them on rogues. Shadowstep has fans, because it's intuitive, in flavor, and powerful, so some kind of play for that for awhile. I see a lot of complaints that "my moves don't do much", and I have to explain how the rogue is a weapon master, and part of your job is to maintain your character's focus, via slice and dice, envenom, or revealing strike, and to stack damage into burst windows, not merely button presses when resources are available.
If you asked me how to make rogues more popular:
1)- At your soonest opportunity (now would be fine), get shadowstep as baseline. This move does what it's supposed to do, so it's a keeper, and shouldn't be available to trade out. But pretend rogues were super powerful and ultra repped- find a way to do it even then, just nerf something else. A baseline version of shadowstep could cost energy as it used to, or even have a longer cooldown as it used to, if that is needed- a talent could be added to make it free or whatever. The point is, this move should be, in some form, baseline.
2)- Openers should be intuitive and powerful. You should always want to press an opener over a regular move.
3)- Dots should do a little bit more damage than the instant versions. For instance, a full duration garrote should be more damage than an ambush. A full duration rupture should be more damage than an eviscerate. Otherwise, why have the dots? If this can't be true, change the moves in some manner. Garrote could serve as a small amount of upfront damage, for instance.
4)- UI support for the class. Anticipation, whether baseline or not, should be handled with graphical combo points, not a buff on the rogue. Other classes get this without a second thought. Extra point of chi? Here's a sphere. More holy power? Got a thing for that. Eclipse? Got a bar. Anticiptation should have a progress bar or other UI element- I shouldn't need BanditsGuileHelper, which hasn't been updated in forever and gets confused about some moves that work differently now, to see that I'm at 3 yellow and should pool to enter red with full energy.
5)- Animation support for the class. I remember we batted around the idea for a ninja roll a long damned time ago, but we were like "oh man, they'd have to animate a roll, they'd never do a class specific animation like that". But of course, they did. The monk has tons of that, the rogue has none of that. Obviously, rogues are subtle- sinister strike shouldn't feature a dragon flying or whatever. But these moves COULD and SHOULD have their own animations. Envenom and Eviscerate could look different. The few times they have tried rogue specific animations (stealth walking) it's largely been pretty terrible, and often glitchy.
6)- Greater spec differences. This is probably the biggest one, and it's been done pretty well in the past. The warlock can be pointed to as the biggest example of what this SHOULD be. A warlock has different goals and strategies in each of their specs. To an extent, this is true for rogues- a mutilate rogue values their energy bar much more than the other rogues, a sub rogue values positioning much more, etc.
7)- Intuitive spec resources. Where the specs ARE unique are good but the spec specific "resources" are kind of silly. Bandit's Guile is hard to explain to new rogues, find weakness is powerful, awesome, and needs some explanation, envenom uptime is interesting and also requires a chat.
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Glad to hear it, obviously Sub/Mut/Combat rep should be > just Ret. What is your source, though? Rogues were around 1% at last update, did stuff really shift a lot? Are rogues anywhere close to correctly repped yet? I would be a bit surprised if they were.Well Rogues still do more dps than rets in pve and are more represented in 2200+ pvp in 3's and rbgs.
---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 10:55 PM ----------
As an addendum, I'm rereading my post, and there actually IS a "rets outnumber rogues at high rated arena" that snuck in from when I started the post to when I finished it. That's amusing! I'm not sure it's true, however, as I stated directly above.