1. #1

    DW Masterfrost (a bit help needed)

    Hey everyone =)

    I'm pretty confused at the moment what went wrong lately so I thought this would be a good place to ask for some advice from other Death Knights. As the topic says I'm playing a DW Frost DK - you can view my armory profile here: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rasza/advanced

    I was trying to improve my DPS over the last few weeks and went from 2H to DW Hastefrost to DW Masterfrost with the following results at the Raiders Training Dummy with 60m damage each: 2H Frost 65k DPS, DW HF 70k DPS and DW MF 75k DPS - which was a good improvement. I also made a check via SimCraft and I had an output of around 87k DPS in a Patchwerk-style fight. Now I have changed (upgraded?) a few items and my DPS just went a little bit down.

    First I changed the boots from http://www.wowhead.com/item=90912 to http://www.wowhead.com/item=85925 (Upgraded 2/2) and after that http://www.wowhead.com/item=89969 to http://www.wowhead.com/item=86868.

    I was a bit curious how the new result at the dummy would be and I was shocked that I just went down to ~70k DPS (60m Damage again).
    My rotation and everything else (latency, no buffs) is the same as before with the 75k DPS but SimCraft also tells me that I'm now around 82k DPS.

    I have absolutely no clue why =/ Is there anything wrong with my stats? Should I change back to 2H? Meh...

    Any help would be appreciated!

    Thanks in advance =)

  2. #2
    Because SimCraft probably has you with all buffs?

  3. #3
    Hey, cheers for the quick reply =)

    It's not about the difference from the dummy to SimCraft, it is because it just dropped from 87k to 82k with the change of my equipment (same as in LFR yesterday). I saw earlier that it is forbidden to post threads that are about the dummy testing so I just added it as addition. The general problem is a dps loss in both cases with 'better' equipment.

  4. #4
    You are dealing with RNG here. To truly get a good (true) number, you literally have to spam your rotations for hundreds of hours before you can safely say RNG won't affect your results any more.

  5. #5
    Legendary! Treelife's Avatar
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    As Kendeura mentioned, simcraft sims your character literally thousands of times. Each iteration would be a fight, if you do it at 25,000 iterations that would be a simulation of 25,000 fights. Depending on your settings the results can vary greatly (usually time with a variation %), and you will be looking at the average, but you will notice that it also gives a minimum and maximum.

    As a side-note, you should be upgrading your weapons, trinkets and 'bigger' stat items first (such as chest and legs), assuming you won't replace either of them soon.

  6. #6
    Hrrm... ok! I thought that... SimCraft was something that gives you a static output according to your stats and items like for example if I simulate my current profile it has the same dps output as when I do it 10 mins later =) But after switching to slightly better gear it dropped down instead of (my expectation) to go up. Not sure if I still get it haha =) I wish I could get my hands on better weapons Treelife! My hopes about better equip are currently on LFR since my Guild just cleared the first two Bosses in MV normal. I'm still not sure about the trinket - might purchase the Relic of Xuen since I've read it is very good for DW.
    Last edited by Kat86; 2012-12-06 at 11:22 AM. Reason: typos =)

  7. #7
    You don't get what they are saying.
    DKs deal with randomness in their rotation in the form of the level 75 talents (except blood tap). You can get lucky and proc Runic Empowerment more than 45% of the time for example. It's only over a large amount of time that it averages out to 45% proc rate. There are other RNG source too, such as the procs of Killing Machine, crits, Rime procs, etc that all contribute to making each one of your attempts vary substantially from each other.
    SimCraft sims your character with the normal proc rate(I.E. 45% for Runic Empowerment) and gives you the result. It's possible you get really lucky and get KM procs on 70% of your Frost Strikes, and that every Obliterate grants a Rime proc. But SimCraft ignores these, because they are very unlikely.
    So maybe you got lucky on your first dummy test, and then you had bad luck on the second.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Shahad View Post
    You don't get what they are saying.
    DKs deal with randomness in their rotation in the form of the level 75 talents (except blood tap). You can get lucky and proc Runic Empowerment more than 45% of the time for example. It's only over a large amount of time that it averages out to 45% proc rate. There are other RNG source too, such as the procs of Killing Machine, crits, Rime procs, etc that all contribute to making each one of your attempts vary substantially from each other.
    SimCraft sims your character with the normal proc rate(I.E. 45% for Runic Empowerment) and gives you the result. It's possible you get really lucky and get KM procs on 70% of your Frost Strikes, and that every Obliterate grants a Rime proc. But SimCraft ignores these, because they are very unlikely.
    So maybe you got lucky on your first dummy test, and then you had bad luck on the second.
    I don't think you guys are getting what he's saying. He's saying prior to upgrading his gear, simcraft was putting him at 87k dps patchwerk style. After upgrading his gear, simcraft is putting him at 82k dps.

    I don't really see how there could be that much of a difference between sims. I'll try to run some sims with your current gear and previous gears and get back to you.

    EDIT:

    So I ran the sims, with your old gear, full buffs, debuffs on target, patchwerk style 10k iterations, 5 minute fight, I got:

    Old gear: 85102.1
    New gear: 85924.9

    So don't really know what to tell you. As far as dummy dps goes, like the others have mentioned, RNG can easily explain that. Besides RNG, you could also be doing something differently than you were before, you lost a decent amount of haste, and that's probably throwing you off when you're at the dummy (though you may or may not notice it).
    Last edited by Lyon; 2012-12-06 at 03:24 PM.

  9. #9
    Hehe yes that was exactly what I tried to explain Lyon. I'm sorry if it was a bit confusing.

    Thanks though for the information about the RNG factors in detail Shahad (I knew about that but not that much) =D
    Thanks aswell to you Lyon for running the sim for me again. I have not changed any setting (just imported my char and simulated)
    that's why my result seem to differ from yours. I'm not sure where or what I messed up but I ended up with less DPS after my equip
    upgrade but it seems to be ok according to yours.

    I hope I have not wasted all your time on this case but it was helpful for me =)
    Last edited by Kat86; 2012-12-06 at 04:09 PM.

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