1. #1

    [Frost] Question on Icy Veins and other glyphs

    I swapped over from fire on Tuesday to frost and did pretty well in raid, especially for not having forged specifically for frost. Now that I'm reforged, regemmed, I'm really looking forward to tonights raid.

    I do have a few questions though. First, I am at 30% raid buffed haste, and so have glyphed icy veins. However, when I cast with it up, it is like my guy does 3 cast animations instead of the split ffb/fb/il. Is this how it is supposed to work? Am I bugged? I mean it just throws my tempo off as I cast.

    Also, I have IV glyph, evocation glyph and Water Elemental glyph. Any advice on which glyph to give up for Ice Lance glyph for cleave fights? I really don't want to dump evo because it has been such a great help to my healers so far.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Hi -

    I would drop the WE Glyph for ice lance, considering on most fights it's trivial to command your WE manually.

    Further to answer your question about IV Glyph I would recommend you to read a little on the background of choosing this glyph.
    In short, it causes IV to not give you haste anymore, and enables you to use IV during bloodlust/heroisim without losing damage.
    You're not bugged, it's working as intended.

  3. #3
    No, I understand what the glyph does, I just didn't realize it caused me to do 3 cast animations instead of casting a split bolt. It is jarring, but I guess I just have to get used to it. Thanks for your reply!

  4. #4
    The Patient Mizzow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Posts
    292
    Dont worry about the way your character is moving, its just weird animations,

    Its best to replace the Water Elemental Glyph, most fights you can command it to move to a specific spot and always be in boss range.

    The way Icy Veins glyph works is that it instead of giving you 20% haste, it gives you a 20% damage boost. It should also be noted that when using Icy Veins with the glyph that you have a hidden +20% chance on Fingers of Frost during the duration (To make up for the extra casts you would get with the 20% haste version)

  5. #5
    The Patient royals's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Illidan
    Posts
    333
    Heres a question I've had for a while as frost, which I feel I've been able to play at a fine level, but have been wondering. On the IV glyph you get basically a flat 20% dmg increase for the duration. Obviously we know the haste plateau to which this has been simmed to be better than the unglyphed version. But just thinking out loud, why is 20% dmg not always better than 20% haste? Are they equal because 20% haste is faster NT and faster FB and therefore more Ice Lances so under that haste plateau 20% haste is better than 20% damage? Just something that thinking logically if someone just walked up to my mage and said "would you like 20% haste for the next 20 seconds or 20% damage" I would say damage every time.

    Please note I know how to sim my toon and have done so as well as currently am using the glyph, but its just a counter-intuitive glyph.
    <The Decoy> 2 Night/Week 10M - US - Illidan - 13/13 HC T15, 13/14 HC T16
    Our Kill Videos
    Guild Twitter: @illidandecoy
    ------------------------------------------
    Pokemon Y - Ghost Safari
    FC: 2036 - 7493 - 8881

  6. #6
    The Patient Mizzow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Posts
    292
    Icy Veins was always a haste increasing Cooldown.

    The problem with that now that that during Bloodlust, using Icy Veins along with the haste on your gear means that your casts are under the global cooldown.

    To compensate for that, they give us the option to change it to a damage increase.

    At low haste levels, the non-glyphed version is better, simply because haste is our best stat for Frost.
    More haste = more Frostbolts = more chances to proc Ice Lance = more damage

  7. #7
    The Patient royals's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Illidan
    Posts
    333
    That is what I implied and I understand the meaning/math behind it... just making an anecdote that, doesn't it sound counter intuitive? dmg vs. haste, if you haven't simmed/tried it, doesn't damage always "sound" better. Again I have enough haste to use the glyph and am currently.
    <The Decoy> 2 Night/Week 10M - US - Illidan - 13/13 HC T15, 13/14 HC T16
    Our Kill Videos
    Guild Twitter: @illidandecoy
    ------------------------------------------
    Pokemon Y - Ghost Safari
    FC: 2036 - 7493 - 8881

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral spaace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,112
    IV Glyphed throws 3 bolts (even if its at 1 target), more procs. Not to mention your Water Ele too.. so Mizzow is wrong.. at low haste you do not glyph, because with high enough haste you're already pushing past the GCD.
    3DS FC: 5172 - 0403 - 7277
    Pokemon Y Safari Steel Type (Feroseed, Forretess, Brozong)
    Bravely Default
    White Mage|XIV Stream

  9. #9
    The Patient royals's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Illidan
    Posts
    333
    Quote Originally Posted by spaace View Post
    IV Glyphed throws 3 bolts (even if its at 1 target), more procs. Not to mention your Water Ele too.. so Mizzow is wrong.. at low haste you do not glyph, because with high enough haste you're already pushing past the GCD.
    He said "At low haste levels, the non-glyphed version is better" just as you are saying spaace
    <The Decoy> 2 Night/Week 10M - US - Illidan - 13/13 HC T15, 13/14 HC T16
    Our Kill Videos
    Guild Twitter: @illidandecoy
    ------------------------------------------
    Pokemon Y - Ghost Safari
    FC: 2036 - 7493 - 8881

  10. #10
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    France
    Posts
    1,168
    Quote Originally Posted by royals View Post
    Heres a question I've had for a while as frost, which I feel I've been able to play at a fine level, but have been wondering. On the IV glyph you get basically a flat 20% dmg increase for the duration. Obviously we know the haste plateau to which this has been simmed to be better than the unglyphed version. But just thinking out loud, why is 20% dmg not always better than 20% haste? Are they equal because 20% haste is faster NT and faster FB and therefore more Ice Lances so under that haste plateau 20% haste is better than 20% damage? Just something that thinking logically if someone just walked up to my mage and said "would you like 20% haste for the next 20 seconds or 20% damage" I would say damage every time.

    Please note I know how to sim my toon and have done so as well as currently am using the glyph, but its just a counter-intuitive glyph.
    First, the "20% damage bonus" only apply to a few specific spell (FB, FFB, IL and Water Bolt) when the 20% haste apply to all spell, mage bomb include.
    Seconde, because of some scaling very mathematical, haste have a better "real" up-time because of the cast time.
    Third, until 5.1, this glyph was pretty well buggued

    Conclusion, the question will be resolve in 5.2.
    Personal solution's idea : merging the 2 versions into one with +6% haste and 3*38% mini-bolt.
    The answers is 42
    -------------------------
    Nathyiel, TempteÐ (sargeras-EU) - @Nathyiel

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathyiel View Post
    First, the "20% damage bonus" only apply to a few specific spell (FB, FFB, IL and Water Bolt) when the 20% haste apply to all spell, mage bomb include.
    Seconde, because of some scaling very mathematical, haste have a better "real" up-time because of the cast time.
    Third, until 5.1, this glyph was pretty well buggued

    Conclusion, the question will be resolve in 5.2.
    Personal solution's idea : merging the 2 versions into one with +6% haste and 3*38% mini-bolt.
    I think I missed that. What was the bug with the IV glyph? (or was it a bug with IV?).

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    France
    Posts
    1,168
    all mini-bolt won't launch and the damage mod can't be applied some time.
    no more info but it was resolved
    The answers is 42
    -------------------------
    Nathyiel, TempteÐ (sargeras-EU) - @Nathyiel

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathyiel View Post
    First, the "20% damage bonus" only apply to a few specific spell (FB, FFB, IL and Water Bolt) when the 20% haste apply to all spell, mage bomb include.
    Seconde, because of some scaling very mathematical, haste have a better "real" up-time because of the cast time.
    Third, until 5.1, this glyph was pretty well buggued

    Conclusion, the question will be resolve in 5.2.
    Personal solution's idea : merging the 2 versions into one with +6% haste and 3*38% mini-bolt.
    It was my understanding based on some math by Lhivera a while back (a long while back now since Frost has declined in popularity) that the haste breakpoint was very very low, like 11% on the glyph. I'm sitting at like 28% raid buffed right now and have been using the glyph.

  14. #14
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    France
    Posts
    1,168
    I will add, that I always forget about the hidden x1.2 FoF proc chance.

    The breakpoint is listed on Kuni's sticky guide. The don't have change since the start (in july or august).
    The answers is 42
    -------------------------
    Nathyiel, TempteÐ (sargeras-EU) - @Nathyiel

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •