I meant no malice or offense. Your post was not only incorrect it was flatly, stupid as in inane.
Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity
It sounds bad cognitively to say it so frankly but your post was not very good. I apologize if it seemed too meanie-pants.
Not quite, no.
You tried to assert that there were lower costs of opportunity in other MMO's when it came to popping abilities that could miss.
I said there were fewer costs of opportunity in other MMOs. Which is inverse to the number of abilities, natch.
Not every ability in The Old Republic is a skill shot. Some are. The majority of abilities are not skills shots, however. A fact of gameplay in many hotkey based MMOs in the lineage of EQ, popularized by World of Warcraft.
The "risks" in using an ability which is a skill shot in Rift or SWTOR are fewer than in GW2. The vast majority of their abilities are automatic calculations.
This isn't strictly a matter of using the right cooldown in X situation as a cost of opportunity. That is relevant to actual play, but not wholly to design.
When a Pyromancer launches a fireball at his target it doesn't move through the game world as a physical representation. Only a visual one. The determinant factor in whether that fireball hits intended target is decided at the moment of keypress. There is not a single point from keypress to hit that a player [Pyromancer or fireball victim] can influence the outcome of that effect by position or physical space.
That is a zero cost of opportunity.
There is no other layer mechanics. Those are different mechanics.
That's true in ANY other MMO where there are miss-able abilities. All the way back to EQ. Yes, some games add another layer of mechanics with a to-hit/to-evade roll, but the initial "Did it hit?" mechanic is still there, too.
If one "missed" with Force Lightning the calculation is one extrinsic to player input after keypress. It's entirely mathematical.
As a Warrior in Guild Wars 2 nearly every skill on the bar can be used with or without a target. The game does not prevent the execution of such abilities. All attacks travel through the game space. There are no to hit or to evade calculations.
You can not say the above of "ANY" MMO at all. Such an assertion would be an outright lie.
In SWTOR as a Warrior I can not use my cleave unless I am in range, have enough resource and am locked to a valid target. The game prevents the execution of the ability otherwise.There are some skills I can use freely in SWTOR which do travel through game space. Addition calculations are made to determine hit chance and evasion.
In Rift as a Warrior I can not use my cleave unless I am in range, have enough resource and am locked to a valid target. The game prevents the execution of that ability if not. Some skills I can use freely in Rift which do travel through game space. Additional calculations are made to determine hit chance and evasion.
Going back to what I was addressing I will re-quote; "Yes, you can hit abilities and they'll go off if you're out of range, but it's usually meaningless (No GCD, no resource cost, no-or-very-short cooldowns) and that's not much different from other games."
The factor of collision is much different from other games, particularly the majority of mainstream MMOs as already pointed out. Only a handful of mainstream MMOs even account for swinging through game space and collision as a basis for gameplay; Tera, Age of Conan, Vindicuts, etc. Some of which only allow for the arc of certain abilities [ex. Tera, Warcraft or Raiderz] to travel through game space.
Not in question by me as already stated a number of times. I jlisted examples of skill shots and non skill shots in a number of popular MMOs.
Sure, and you can do that with many abilities in other MMO's as well. As large a percentage? No. But they're still there.
Heroic Strike in Warcraft does not travel through game space at all. It hits exactly the target if valid and mathematically possible.
Banish in Guild Wars 2 hits any enemy it collides with as it swings through game space. There is no mathematical calculation to determine whether you hit that guy or not.
The issue is one of degree. In Guild Wars 2 nearly all of the abilities travel through game space and account of collision. Ergo, the combat of Guild Wars 2 is more akin to Chivalry or TES than hotkey MMOs in popularized style of EQ & WoW. A provable, demonstrable and true statement.
Whoa, whoa. That is other guy's argument. Not mine. And again, the inclusion of "skill" or needing skill is irrelevant to design for the most part.
Just debunking the idea that GW2 is "FPS-like" or requires significantly more skill in aiming/execution/etc than other MMO's.
No they don't.
Yes, they do. As far as the attacker is concerned, the shots always go straight to the target.
If the arrow can be obscured, dodged or body blocked by means of positioning and not mathematical calculation that is not a unerring shot.
An unerring shot can not be obscured, dodged or body blocked typically.
What you are saying is not possible and a contradiction of your admittance that body blocking and collision are factors. An unerring arrow shot would ignore those factors wholly. Not in part, wholly.
No, what you said isn't true at all. I can fire in any direction I point my character tword. The arrow travels through game space and accounts for collision.
What I said is completely true, you don't "aim" your arrows or fireballs. Yes, the TARGET can move behind something or dodge roll, but that has nothing to do with what the attacker is doing.
In WoW and Rift I do not even have the option to fire an arrow without a valid target. So long as a valid target is in FOV than I can fire an arrow.
The above is true in GW2, but the dynamic of GW2 isn't true in WOW or Rift in that you are able to fire an arrow in the direction you are facing which travels and collides with geometry in game.
Actually, it doesn't make the game harder or more obtuse. It can be quite useful considering the "zerging" of both players and Ai.
Yes, and nothing in GW2 really works that way unless you're really intentionally trying to make it hard on yourself. Hell, most of the time if you did equip a ranged weapon and shoot at nothing, the shots just kinda flop into the ground. You'd never see a target, intentionally NOT target it, and try to shoot targeted attacks at it. That's silly.
Not targeting a specific enemy in GW2 due to the auto facing screwing is super useful for melee, for example. Where taking broad swings as melee without defined target(s) allows for easier strafing and more consistent area damage.
Works well for side strafing from range as well when enemies are on the move and in clumps. Firing into their path of movement can net more axe bounces, piercing shots, etc then tabbing to far targets to maximize piercing.
Definitely not a silly thing to do. Elementalist and Mesmers are the only 2 classes with skills that can not be used in this manner or at least unwise to try.
No, you will aim toward an enemy unerringly if tabbed to that target. The shot or swing is not guaranteed to hit that target. That is not an unerring attack.
When you do target them, the shots will fly unerringly toward them
An unerring attack is perfectly accurate and on mark.
1. not missing the mark or target
2. consistently accurate; certain
Existence of skills shots in other MMOs is not in question. I just listed examples of skill shots in the post above. -_-
Now you might try to use a GTAE, or a conical attack, or a line attack, or something like that, and those ARE more "skill shot" in nature, they're also common to every other MMO. This isn't something unique to GW2 at all.
Not concerned with uniqueness either.
Forest from the trees, bro. I suspect you are being cheeky though.
Are we really going to point at a linear-area attack that originates from the front of the caster and claim that it's not the same as a conical-area attack originating from the front of the caster? =)
In any case, it would not matter if Ray of Judgement were a line attack, hexagon PBAOE or zigzagging projectile. The majority of attacks used in Guild Wars 2 move through game space and account for collision.
This is as a point of fact, not true for the majority of combat abilities in other MMOs. Yet is true for the majority of Guild Wars 2's combat abilities.