How is Guild Wars 2 PVP?

[Deleted]

What about the payed tournaments and expansion to Esports?

[Odeezee]

It's a bit boring because of lacking diversity imo. You only get 10 abilities of which only 5 are action abilities which don't even all do damage, very little customization can be done.

hahaha, please tell me you are joking. lack diversity? due to limited skills on hand that you yourself personally have to CHOOSE? wow! you do realize that if you were to just stop and look at what you typed out logically you cannot come to that conclusion, right? there are soooo many skills in GW2 per profession but the game forces you to make "meaningful decisions" about which skills to bring because they are exclusionary by design: if you take GS and rifle you will miss out on the hammer and sword/shield skill that could have worked better for that given situation. "meaningful decisions" are the hallmark of GW2 PvP that give combat an even deeper layer of variety and complexity as you do not have access to all skills at all times, as in traditional MMOs, which is actually the "lacking diversity" you are talking about. /le sigh

Downed state should be removed in pvp....

this is by far one of the best features of the GW2 combat system. yes there are some downed state skills that need balancing, but as a whole the system works very well in GW2 and adds such a tactical element to PvP and promotes teamwork: do you protect your fallen teammate from a stomp while another teammate resez? do you double res to res him faster but risk taking damage while you do so? do you stomp a downed enemy to rally your teammate? etc.

So you're saying the game plays like an FPS, then? Since when I say it doesn't, I don't know what I'm talking about? =)

no, you really don't.

[Evolixe]

hahaha, please tell me you are joking. lack diversity? due to limited skills on hand that you yourself personally have to CHOOSE? wow! you do realize that if you were to just stop and look at what you typed out logically you cannot come to that conclusion, right? there are soooo many skills in GW2 per profession but the game forces you to make "meaningful decisions" about which skills to bring because they are exclusionary by design: if you take GS and rifle you will miss out on the hammer and sword/shield skill that could have worked better for that given situation. "meaningful decisions" are the hallmark of GW2 PvP that give combat an even deeper layer of variety and complexity as you do not have access to all skills at all times, as in traditional MMOs, which is actually the "lacking diversity" you are talking about. /le sigh\

You are still limited to a very small number of abilities at any one time. Even if, when out of battle, there is alot more to be changed. I tried it and it is not for me. If you don't agree with my opinion that is fine, but i stand my ground.

[Deleted]

PvP wise it's one of the best games out there.

You can't be serious. GW2 PvP is a stillborn joke that was DOA due to woefully absent facilities. Facilities that were in freakin' GW1. See this video for a detailed analysis of why the game's sPvP never got off the ground and was almost completely dead after two months, with an estimated <10 serious PvP teams and effectively no way for new players to enter the system. GW2 PvP has been a staggering failure that fell hilariously short of their touted eSports-worthy mark. There is no competitive scene, there is no foundation for growth, and there are hardly any meaningful PvP discussions going on. Notice that in a game that was supposedly mostly about PvP, almost nobody is talking about it in any kind of detail. That's because the serious PvPers are gone.

WvW is perhaps not quite so badly off, but nor was it ever meant to be a serious PvP venue. It's very shallow and finite by design, never intended as a competitive scene or a part of the game's eSport ambitions. If you're on one of the populated servers, it remains as it always was: a neat but inconsequential minigame where zergs clash and people toy with mechanics such as siege weaponry and castles. It isn't bad at what it does, it just doesn't do very much and should never be asked more of. It's like PvP's counterpart to the PvE leveling content that doesn't need to be particularly great or memorable because it's not what matters in the game.

[Odeezee]

You are still limited to a very small number of abilities at any one time. Even if, when out of battle, there is alot more to be changed. I tried it and it is not for me. If you don't agree with my opinion that is fine, but i stand my ground.

you did not state an opinion you asserted a fact. if you do not like the limited number of skills that you can use once in combat that is one thing, but to state that there is a lack of variation in skills that you could use and that there is little customization is factually incorrect. to add to that you actually get 15 skills in combat, 10 weapon skill (or did you forget weapon swapping?) and 5 utility skills for most professions except for Eles and Engies which have more due to attunements and kits.

You can't be serious. GW2 PvP is a stillborn joke that was DOA due to woefully absent facilities. Facilities that were in freakin' GW1. See this video for a detailed analysis of why the game's sPvP never got off the ground and was almost completely dead after two months, with an estimated <10 serious PvP teams and effectively no way for new players to enter the system. GW2 PvP has been a staggering failure that fell hilariously short of their touted eSports-worthy mark. There is no competitive scene, there is no foundation for growth, and there are hardly any meaningful PvP discussions going on. Notice that in a game that was supposedly mostly about PvP, almost nobody is talking about it in any kind of detail. That's because the serious PvPers are gone.

WvW is perhaps not quite so badly off, but nor was it ever meant to be a serious PvP venue. It's very shallow and finite by design, never intended as a competitive scene or a part of the game's eSport ambitions. If you're on one of the populated servers, it remains as it always was: a neat but inconsequential minigame where zergs clash and people toy with mechanics such as siege weaponry and castles. It isn't bad at what it does, it just doesn't do very much and should never be asked more of. It's like PvP's counterpart to the PvE leveling content that doesn't need to be particularly great or memorable because it's not what matters in the game.

[Evolixe]

you did not state an opinion you asserted a fact. if you do not like the limited number of skills that you can use once in combat that is one thing, but to state that there is a lack of variation in skills that you could use and that there is little customization is factually incorrect. to add to that you actually get 15 skills in combat, 10 weapon skill (or did you forget weapon swapping?) and 5 utility skills for most professions except for Eles and Engies which have more due to attunements and kits.

Still comes down to a lack of diversity in play. If you prefer spec 1 and weapon setup 1+2, then you are stuck with that. Unless you take another playstyle you're going to be hitting very few buttons for endlessly long boring sessions.

The problem is not the choice in talents and whatnot. The problem is the availeble choices once you are IN combat and going. 15 abilities to take care of is nothing, nothing at all. Most of them have a cooldown aswell.. making you hit button 1 and button 2 like 100 times in comparison of hitton button 3 4 and 5 once each respectively.

[Odeezee]

Still comes down to a lack of diversity in play. If you prefer spec 1 and weapon setup 1+2, then you are stuck with that. Unless you take another playstyle you're going to be hitting very few buttons for endlessly long boring sessions.

The problem is not the choice in talents and whatnot. The problem is the availeble choices once you are IN combat and going. 15 abilities to take care of is nothing, nothing at all. Most of them have a cooldown aswell.. making you hit button 1 and button 2 like 100 times in comparison of hitton button 3 4 and 5 once each respectively.

wow, this just goes to show that you really have a great misunderstanding of combat as it exists in GW2. most of the skills are skill shots which means there are consequences to when and how you use them, so you are not just going to be spamming all your abilities as soon as they are off cooldown, you use them when you need them or when the opportunities to maximize their effect arise. and it's funny how you scoff at having "only" 15 abilities in combat when in WoW you have access to all your 30+ abilities yet hardly use even 10 during a regular engagement. people get so caught up in fluff that they do not even see what is actually happening. another thing to note is that most skills in GW2 have multiple effects so your decision to use them is much graver than in traditional MMOs as these skills do have long cooldowns. believe what you want to about GW2 combat, just don't spread misinformation!

[Evolixe]

wow, this just goes to show that you really have a great misunderstanding of combat as it exists in GW2. most of the skills are skill shots which means there are consequences to when and how you use them, so you are not just going to be spamming all your abilities as soon as they are off cooldown, you use them when you need them or when the opportunities to maximize their effect arise. and it's funny how you scoff at having "only" 15 abilities in combat when in WoW you have access to all your 30+ abilities yet hardly use even 10 during a regular engagement. people get so caught up in fluff that they do not even see what is actually happening. another thing to note is that most skills in GW2 have multiple effects so your decision to use them is much graver than in traditional MMOs as these skills do have long cooldowns. believe what you want to about GW2 combat, just don't spread misinformation!

That is just blatantly false. At least for my person.

Either way, i didn't talk about how you use them at all. Just that they work with cooldowns.
When you use them is irrilevant to the topic hence i didn't blend it into the conversation. Their use is severely limited. That is the point.

I don't like the idea of hitting 1 and 2 100 times and just waiting for the right moment on the others. I want some more choices as to how my fight progresses aside from long cooldowns.

[Deleted]

I think this thread went rapidly off topic guys, i just wanted to know if its a worthwhile alternative to WoW in reguards to PvP only.

[Odeezee]

I really feel bad for any new players that buy the game based on the stuff they read here, because it's just setting them up for more disappointment.

nah, what is disappointing is reading opinions about stuff without first understanding the subject matter and second not giving factual references. giving the OP your "feelings" on why GW2 PvP is bad or whatever does not help him decide at all, you are just using this thread as a soap box to air out your grievances.

Either way, i didn't talk about how you use them at all. Just that they work with cooldowns.
When you use them is irrilevant to the topic hence i didn't blend it into the conversation. Their use is severely limited. That is the point.

so your argument is that you just want more buttons to push between cooldowns? you do realize that you have at least 2 weapon sets which meant you actually have 4 buttons to push or does that not count seeing as you get access to one weapon set at a time? not to mention chaining skills together for greater effect aka spell-weaving, or using cpcs. it seems as though the thing "limiting" the use of skills in your case is a user issue and not a game issue.

I don't like the idea of hitting 1 and 2 100 times and just waiting for the right moment on the others. I want some more choices as to how my fight progresses aside from long cooldowns.

/sigh. you really don't get it. your loss.

I think this thread went rapidly off topic guys, i just wanted to know if its a worthwhile alternative to WoW in reguards to PvP only.

honestly, if you are a casual gamer that does not theory-craft or play well in a co-ordinated group then you will just have fun in Hot-Join. if you like organized group based PvP, the Tournaments are where it's at.

i was personally never a fan of PvP in trinity based games because the trinity warps and restricts PvP: team with a healer or particular comp generally always wins. there is little variation in WoW PvP compared to GW2 and the fact that EVERY profession can heal themselves opens up the game and you can do some amazing things which you cannot do in a trinity based game. you no longer have to wait for the right class or gear, just grab some friends of any level 2+ and have at it. but as i have said before you have to try it out yourself, the game is at the very least worth the price of entry.

[Deleted]

nah, what is disappointing is reading opinions about stuff without first understanding the subject matter and second not giving factual references. giving the OP your "feelings" on why GW2 PvP is bad or whatever does not help him decide at all, you are just using this thread as a soap box to air out your grievances.

Wait, people shouldnt give their opinions about pvp when someone asks? Think Bovine has gone a long way to explain his reasoning, I think you just don't agree with it, neither has offered more facts, certainly havent seen many from you, in fact most of it is just personal opinion about the combat system, no facts...well except for the 'fact' that wow has 30 buttons but you dont use them, which isnt a fact either.

[Evolixe]

so your argument is that you just want more buttons to push between cooldowns?

No, i want the ability to direct my own fight more between cooldowns.

you do realize that you have at least 2 weapon sets which meant you actually have 4 buttons to push or does that not count seeing as you get access to one weapon set at a time?

Exactly that.

not to mention chaining skills together for greater effect aka spell-weaving, or using cpcs. it seems as though the thing "limiting" the use of skills in your case is a user issue and not a game issue.

I know all about that, i'm not a novice player by any means. But it's not diverse enough. Only promotes popping more cooldowns at the same time making it even more dull.

honestly, if you are a casual gamer that does not theory-craft or play well in a co-ordinated group then you will just have fun in Hot-Join. if you like organized group based PvP, the Tournaments are where it's at.

As i said, no novice.

[Fencers]

nah, what is disappointing is reading opinions about stuff without first understanding the subject matter and second not giving factual references. giving the OP your "feelings" on why GW2 PvP is bad or whatever does not help him decide at all, you are just using this thread as a soap box to air out your grievances.

The OP of this thread is asking for personal opinions on PVP. Esp. in comparison to World of Warcraft.

His final line is purely subjective; "I won't play GW2 if it is bad!"

Qualifiers of good and bad are inherently subjective. OP is soliciting opinion as the premise of this thread.

[Deleted]

yea i did just want opion vs wow, theres no correct answer obviously...

After reading some arena junkies posts about it people say its good but under developed and should be steered clear of until they work out and develop pvp more

[zito]

tbh not a big fan of PvP anymore, it's out of control for the most part.

[Deleted]

Yeah, that seems to have been the consensus among a lot of PvPers...the game has a lot of good ideas (and it really does, that's true) but very poor implementation.

Please facts only bovine! I headed over to arena junkies to see what they said, the main thing i got was its pretty much meh...which is a shame for a game that had the potential, and was regularly hyped up to be, the step up from more traditional mmo's pvp.

[Fencers]

Well, GW2 just lacks a lot of strategic depth. Esp. compared to a game as mature as World of Warcraft where the meta consideration alone is far more vast, storied and polished.

I can't speak much for PVP but what is present in the design of the game would be true regardless of game mode. The act of swinging your sword is the same in PVE or PVP and abides by the same rules of gameplay systems such as Toughness, Power, cooldowns, etc.

GW2 is just kind of a simple, casual focused action game. Which isn't wrong or bad by any means. Some are more partial to action gameplay than others. That is what it comes down to really.

[Ytlayol]

GW2 is just kind of a simple, casual focused action game. Which isn't wrong or bad by any means. Some are more partial to action gameplay than others. That what it comes down to really.

This pretty much.

You should try it out once they give out another free trial. It's a pretty relaxing game to PVP in.

[Odeezee]

Well, GW2 just lacks a lot of strategic depth. Esp. compared to a game as mature as World of Warcraft where the meta consideration alone is far more vast, storied and polished.

I can't speak much for PVP but what is present in the design of the game would be true regardless of game mode. The act of swinging your sword is the same in PVE or PVP and abides by the same rules of gameplay systems such as Toughness, Power, cooldowns, etc.

GW2 is just kind of a simple, casual focused action game. Which isn't wrong or bad by any means. Some are more partial to action gameplay than others. That is what it comes down to really.

and this is where you have lost all credibility with me concerning PvP and combat mechanics. lacks depth compared to the meta in WoW? which is simple as all hell. there is no depth to a game governed by false dependencies and lack of comp and spec variation which is precisely what trinity based games give you. there needs to be a dps, a healer and some form of control but in WoW it is given to specific classes to fill specific roles. this epitomizes a lack of strategic depth, not to mention the lack of in-game counter play as few classes can res mid-fight or heal/support teammates. when describing WoW PvP do not confuse "depth" with being "convoluted", even Blizz have seen it and decided to reduce the fluff with this recent expansion.

WoW is a PvE game with some PvP added, not the same as GW2 which is has a completely separate PvP game from PvE, balanced individually. and as far as the OP and wanting opinions what good are those opinions when they are not based on any facts? if people say i do not like the gameplay in GW2 because it's not as fun and WoW's or w/e that's more than fine, but to base it on an incorrect observation or ignorance which we can actually check is just stupid.

and as a note for people reading Arena Junkies and taking their word as the litmus test for GW2 PvP, they are not the people you should be listening to about GW2 PvP. most WoW players who say they are former Gladiators that i talk to in The Mists have average win/loss ratios and often struggle with the change in combat and meta of GW2. case in point AJ people complain a lot about the downed state saying that they should not have to "kill someone twice" which is utter crap as they know the downed state exists and just refuse to adapt to a different style of gameplay. nothing wrong with that but to claim it is underdeveloped is foolish to say the least. the amount of depth to gameplay just adding the downed state gives PvP is amazing to me. people still don't even appreciate how big of a change to gameplay casting on the move is.

[Atelniar]

Well, GW2 just lacks a lot of strategic depth. Esp. compared to a game as mature as World of Warcraft where the meta consideration alone is far more vast, storied and polished.

I can't speak much for PVP but what is present in the design of the game would be true regardless of game mode. The act of swinging your sword is the same in PVE or PVP and abides by the same rules of gameplay systems such as Toughness, Power, cooldowns, etc.

GW2 is just kind of a simple, casual focused action game. Which isn't wrong or bad by any means. Some are more partial to action gameplay than others. That is what it comes down to really.

Having tried both games I somewhat disagree, nor would I let arena junkies affect my judgement of how strong PvP stands in either title. People give those sites too much credit instead of evaluating things for themselves. Your mentioning of stats in comparison to a complex PvP-system is fairly irrelevant. WoW PvP did not become any more complicated as a result of introducing resilience as a PvP focused stat. In fact, GW2 allows for much more customisation and freedom as you can enter PvP at lvl 1 with the stats needed to compete. All rewards are primarily scenic in nature, not stat based. This allows for much better balance and far more user-friendly entry for new players. The ease with which you are allowed to change specs on the fly in PvP with no cost, how weapons greatly affect your approach to a class, how traits can further enhance one specific or several weaponsets, and the variety of stats you can choose between with every profession greatly outnumbers the depth WoW's PvP approach has on a class by class basis.

Strictly speaking, though, my interest is focused on the game modes available, rather than stats and builds (where I feel GW2 greatly outdo WoW by a mile in terms of customisation and depth). WoW has some more depth in its ranking system, whereas its attempt at instanced World PvP simply fall flat on its belly compared to what GW2 has to offer as long as you are in the right guild (or on the right server). GW2 has sPvP and a tournament system in place, but it seems far less dominant than what arena is to a competetive PvP-player, and rightly so as GW2 do almost nothing to distinguish the elite from the rest of the lot in terms of PvP. This is why, I believe, arena junkies do not take it seriously as a PvP arena for them.

To sum it up: from a stat point of view and build based depth GW2 outrivals WoW greatly, even after the talent-changes made before MoP. In terms of game-modes, however, the two are quite different. Where GW2 is catered to a more casual style of PvP with very little to distinguish the elite from the barberians of refined keypressing-abilities, WoW has an entire game-mode built to cater for this scene. For the average player however, this scene is meaningless in terms of how good PvP is within a game unless you play competetively. GW2 lacks, as you say, quite a bit of polish in terms of performance on World vs. World queuing, which suffers from similar issues as normal BG's once did in WoW. Horrible down-time.

From an objective viewpoint, at the best of my ability, as I prefer GW2 myself: WoW caters better to the accomplished player who has a goal which plays around egocentric values. GW2 is much more open and friendly to any player as you will never be horribly outgeared in sPvP. Your enjoyment of the combat systems may differ depending on profession vs. class choice. Overall the combat system in GW2 is superiour in terms of freedom to manipulate your chosen character's stats, variety in play-styles depending on weapons and presentation (visual prowess). The dodge mechanic, while slightly contrived, still offers a depth WoW does not have. So does the downed-state where profession-based abilities determine how you will be able to hang on until help arrive.

To be blunt, Fencers, I think your meta consideration was somewhat lacking. Especially if you feel that the strategic value of the meta-game is determined by the number of "PvP-dedicated" bullshit, as you like to say, stats and not the level at which you can customise your personal performance (where WoW scores poorly compared to GW2). I do not disagree that WoW stands out as a better alternative to a certain type of player though, for now. Calling GW2 simple on a metagame-basis is stretching it for me as it is a fine example of how metagaming should be done without resorting too much to rock, paper and siccors as WoW do.

As a conclusion on this, and to avoid a versus-rant on either side: GW2 can be recommended as a PvP game, as long as you do not seek fame and glory through ratings. But the game is still a little rough around the edges and your profession choice and trait builds will greatly determine how you perform vs. others. So will your weapons, so be mindful of how you want to approach PvP. Luckily you can enter sPvP at lvl 1.