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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    So in other MMO's players don't have to be in a certain range to perform melee attacks, or a certain arc to perform cone attacks, or a certain distance to perform PBAoE attacks?

    Another bit of advice to the OP: The "non-dice-roll" and "FPS style" combat is another part of the game that's blown vastly out of proportion. If you've played other MMO's, this will feel exactly the same to you except for the invincibility-roll that they tossed in.
    this greatly saddens me that not only do you think this is true, but you feel so confident in your "knowledge" of the subject matter that you are willing to post it on a public forum. you take so much for granted with GW2's combat system that you really do not see the vast and i do mean VAST differences between it's combat system and those found in tradition MMOs. to name a few: casting on the move with most abilities, being able to free-cast skills with/without a target, positional avoidance just by rapidly changing direction, dodging, cross-profession combos, elevation augmenting skills, collision detection of objects and players in the path of the attack, etc.

    recently i have discovered, more so in GW2 than in any other game prior, that people think they understand GW2's combat just because they have played MMOs for x amount of years, but the GW2 system is so deep that you can play it with as much or as little hand-holding as you like. the game makes it easy for actual pros and newbies to get into the game and have fun and because of this players unfamiliar with the nuances of the game mechanics can find it rather overwhelming that most people revert to playing GW2 as they would any other MMO i.e: use melee target assist, set your 1 skill to auto-cast, promote skill target to actual target, target assist, etc. this makes the game more accessible but it hampers your ability to become more proficient in PvP. case in point in WvW if you are a Ranger and have target assist on and try to hit a target on a ledge you will miss because target assist attacks the target using the shortest distance possible which in this case will hit the bottom of the ledge and not the target. now if you disable target assist and actually free aim (ala TERA but without the aid of a cross-hair) slightly higher, due to the arc path of the attack, it will shoot up and arc over the ledge and hit the target.

    i get that people may not like GW2 for whatever reason and that is more than fine, like what you like just do not go around talking about things as fact that you have NO clue about just because you are feeling disappointed or let down. the funny thing is your skewed perception and lack of knowledge of the game and it's nuances could be the very reason that you did not end up enjoying yourself in the first place.

    @ the OP, the game is rather complex but, like i said above, there are many features in place to ease you into it, just do not assume that the hand-holding options that are set as default are the best and/or only way to play the game. for me the PvP in GW2 is the best i have played in any MMO over the last 9 years, but the decision lies with you because we may look for different things when it comes to PvP. it's worth the $60 or w/e it is where you live so i would definitely give it a try because at the very least you will get your $60 worth!
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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by kelevandros View Post
    I admire your persistence Fencers There are some cases though where even if you give certifications signed by God himself about things, some people would just ignore them still believing in whatever they do.
    Fencers persistence comes from an insatiable desire to always be 100% right regardless of what anyone else says, she is no different from bovine, both have no leeway its, im right you're not, and neither will give it a rest. With the number of people fighting over who's religion is right at the moment I doubt anything signed by god will create order here, these guys will just carry on and on.
    I dont particularly agree with fencers on this one, dont understand what the difference between a swipe or thrash on my feral and these 'skill shots' shes going on about.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by infernouk View Post
    Ok sounds like it might be wroth giving it a go then with only a week to level a character and balanced pvp!

    any tips on good pvp classes or is it really that balanced?
    it really is that balanced. i roll necromancer and luv my dagger/warhorn spec (alot of what warlocks became with mop, came from this class imo). luv my engineer as well, supa fun ranged class.

  4. #44
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    It's a bit boring because of lacking diversity imo. You only get 10 abilities of which only 5 are action abilities which don't even all do damage, very little customization can be done.

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  5. #45
    Downed state should be removed in pvp....

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonshain View Post
    Downed state should be removed in pvp....
    The problem is the imbalance of the abilities during downed available to each class and how fast you can get ressed from the downed state. Balance is transitory I believe someone once said, and GW2 has as much balance as you can get when you factor in class and talents, in otherwords not much but not as bad as others.

  7. #47
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    To come back to the question that was initially asked in this thread, I'd like to quote a post from page 1:

    Quote Originally Posted by Fernling306 View Post
    I personally think the SPvP in Gw2 is really bad. Having the single game type(conquest) makes it feel very repetitive. The developers of Anet have already said numerous times that they will not ever be adding any more game modes. I personally wouldn't ever recommend this game to someone that is looking for a PvP game. If you want a PvP game, go to Planetside 2(I can't get into it, but see where it shines), LoL or just about anything else really. The game is worth buying for a single PvE play through though.
    First off: The devs never said that they won't add other gamemodes to GW2. But that's not the important thing, which is:
    You have to identify the type of PvP player that you are. I tend to divide them into 2 categories:
    1. The player wants to develop his character/account by doing PvP. He/She likes to invest time and/or money to get an edge in combat. This category does, in my eyes, contain the majority of PvP gamers.
    2. The player wants to have a level playing field where no character/account is stronger than the others. Being better at playing the game is the main factor of determining the outcome of battles.

    When Fernling306 says that sPvP in GW2 is really bad, he actually means that it's bad for category 1 players, for who Planetside 2 and LoL seems to be a better experience.
    I, on the other hand, say that it's awesome If you can identify yourself with category 2, that is.
    A true PvP game should imho not give the players incentives to spend a lot of time (read: grinding, not gaining personal experience) or money so that their character becomes stronger, but has to provide the exact same equipment to everyone.
    GW2 Structured PvP does that, which I'm very grateful for, as do traditional shooters and strategy games. But the trend definitely goes towards category 1 with F2P games, which saddens me... but only a little, since there are still PvP games like GW2, DotA2 or Bloodline Champions out there for me

    Oh, and GW2 actually tried to cater to both categories by offering sPvP and WvW at the same time. This may be a reason why both areas are still lacking some features (e.g. ladder, spectators, proper matchmaking, alliance chat) or incentives to play (e.g. WvW rank), but ANet promised to implement a lot of them.

  8. #48
    Fencers: I feel like at this point we're splitting hairs since it doesn't seem like we DISagree on this point. Like you said, it's a matter of degrees, and I already agreed with that part from the very beginning.

    So in other MMO's players don't have to be in a certain range to perform melee attacks, or a certain arc to perform cone attacks, or a certain distance to perform PBAoE attacks?

    Another bit of advice to the OP: The "non-dice-roll" and "FPS style" combat is another part of the game that's blown vastly out of proportion. If you've played other MMO's, this will feel exactly the same to you except for the invincibility-roll that they tossed in.
    this greatly saddens me that not only do you think this is true, but you feel so confident in your "knowledge" of the subject matter that you are willing to post it on a public forum. you take so much for granted with GW2's combat system that you really do not see the vast and i do mean VAST differences between it's combat system and those found in tradition MMOs. to name a few: casting on the move with most abilities, being able to free-cast skills with/without a target, positional avoidance just by rapidly changing direction, dodging, cross-profession combos, elevation augmenting skills, collision detection of objects and players in the path of the attack, etc.
    So you're saying the game plays like an FPS, then? Since when I say it doesn't, I don't know what I'm talking about? =)

  9. #49
    What about the payed tournaments and expansion to Esports?

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    It's a bit boring because of lacking diversity imo. You only get 10 abilities of which only 5 are action abilities which don't even all do damage, very little customization can be done.
    hahaha, please tell me you are joking. lack diversity? due to limited skills on hand that you yourself personally have to CHOOSE? wow! you do realize that if you were to just stop and look at what you typed out logically you cannot come to that conclusion, right? there are soooo many skills in GW2 per profession but the game forces you to make "meaningful decisions" about which skills to bring because they are exclusionary by design: if you take GS and rifle you will miss out on the hammer and sword/shield skill that could have worked better for that given situation. "meaningful decisions" are the hallmark of GW2 PvP that give combat an even deeper layer of variety and complexity as you do not have access to all skills at all times, as in traditional MMOs, which is actually the "lacking diversity" you are talking about. /le sigh
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonshain View Post
    Downed state should be removed in pvp....
    this is by far one of the best features of the GW2 combat system. yes there are some downed state skills that need balancing, but as a whole the system works very well in GW2 and adds such a tactical element to PvP and promotes teamwork: do you protect your fallen teammate from a stomp while another teammate resez? do you double res to res him faster but risk taking damage while you do so? do you stomp a downed enemy to rally your teammate? etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    So you're saying the game plays like an FPS, then? Since when I say it doesn't, I don't know what I'm talking about? =)
    no, you really don't.
    Last edited by Odeezee; 2012-12-07 at 08:52 PM.
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  11. #51
    I think at this point if I posted, "GW2 does not, in fact, make you sandwiches." people would still say I don't know what I'm talking about. =)

  12. #52
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odeezee View Post
    hahaha, please tell me you are joking. lack diversity? due to limited skills on hand that you yourself personally have to CHOOSE? wow! you do realize that if you were to just stop and look at what you typed out logically you cannot come to that conclusion, right? there are soooo many skills in GW2 per profession but the game forces you to make "meaningful decisions" about which skills to bring because they are exclusionary by design: if you take GS and rifle you will miss out on the hammer and sword/shield skill that could have worked better for that given situation. "meaningful decisions" are the hallmark of GW2 PvP that give combat an even deeper layer of variety and complexity as you do not have access to all skills at all times, as in traditional MMOs, which is actually the "lacking diversity" you are talking about. /le sigh\
    You are still limited to a very small number of abilities at any one time. Even if, when out of battle, there is alot more to be changed. I tried it and it is not for me. If you don't agree with my opinion that is fine, but i stand my ground.

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  13. #53
    PvP wise it's one of the best games out there.
    You can't be serious. GW2 PvP is a stillborn joke that was DOA due to woefully absent facilities. Facilities that were in freakin' GW1. See this video for a detailed analysis of why the game's sPvP never got off the ground and was almost completely dead after two months, with an estimated <10 serious PvP teams and effectively no way for new players to enter the system. GW2 PvP has been a staggering failure that fell hilariously short of their touted eSports-worthy mark. There is no competitive scene, there is no foundation for growth, and there are hardly any meaningful PvP discussions going on. Notice that in a game that was supposedly mostly about PvP, almost nobody is talking about it in any kind of detail. That's because the serious PvPers are gone.

    WvW is perhaps not quite so badly off, but nor was it ever meant to be a serious PvP venue. It's very shallow and finite by design, never intended as a competitive scene or a part of the game's eSport ambitions. If you're on one of the populated servers, it remains as it always was: a neat but inconsequential minigame where zergs clash and people toy with mechanics such as siege weaponry and castles. It isn't bad at what it does, it just doesn't do very much and should never be asked more of. It's like PvP's counterpart to the PvE leveling content that doesn't need to be particularly great or memorable because it's not what matters in the game.
    Last edited by Noselacri; 2012-12-07 at 09:49 PM.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    You are still limited to a very small number of abilities at any one time. Even if, when out of battle, there is alot more to be changed. I tried it and it is not for me. If you don't agree with my opinion that is fine, but i stand my ground.
    you did not state an opinion you asserted a fact. if you do not like the limited number of skills that you can use once in combat that is one thing, but to state that there is a lack of variation in skills that you could use and that there is little customization is factually incorrect. to add to that you actually get 15 skills in combat, 10 weapon skill (or did you forget weapon swapping?) and 5 utility skills for most professions except for Eles and Engies which have more due to attunements and kits.
    Quote Originally Posted by Noselacri View Post
    You can't be serious. GW2 PvP is a stillborn joke that was DOA due to woefully absent facilities. Facilities that were in freakin' GW1. See this video for a detailed analysis of why the game's sPvP never got off the ground and was almost completely dead after two months, with an estimated <10 serious PvP teams and effectively no way for new players to enter the system. GW2 PvP has been a staggering failure that fell hilariously short of their touted eSports-worthy mark. There is no competitive scene, there is no foundation for growth, and there are hardly any meaningful PvP discussions going on. Notice that in a game that was supposedly mostly about PvP, almost nobody is talking about it in any kind of detail. That's because the serious PvPers are gone.

    WvW is perhaps not quite so badly off, but nor was it ever meant to be a serious PvP venue. It's very shallow and finite by design, never intended as a competitive scene or a part of the game's eSport ambitions. If you're on one of the populated servers, it remains as it always was: a neat but inconsequential minigame where zergs clash and people toy with mechanics such as siege weaponry and castles. It isn't bad at what it does, it just doesn't do very much and should never be asked more of. It's like PvP's counterpart to the PvE leveling content that doesn't need to be particularly great or memorable because it's not what matters in the game.
    Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!!!

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  15. #55
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odeezee View Post
    you did not state an opinion you asserted a fact. if you do not like the limited number of skills that you can use once in combat that is one thing, but to state that there is a lack of variation in skills that you could use and that there is little customization is factually incorrect. to add to that you actually get 15 skills in combat, 10 weapon skill (or did you forget weapon swapping?) and 5 utility skills for most professions except for Eles and Engies which have more due to attunements and kits.
    Still comes down to a lack of diversity in play. If you prefer spec 1 and weapon setup 1+2, then you are stuck with that. Unless you take another playstyle you're going to be hitting very few buttons for endlessly long boring sessions.

    The problem is not the choice in talents and whatnot. The problem is the availeble choices once you are IN combat and going. 15 abilities to take care of is nothing, nothing at all. Most of them have a cooldown aswell.. making you hit button 1 and button 2 like 100 times in comparison of hitton button 3 4 and 5 once each respectively.
    Last edited by Holo; 2012-12-07 at 11:12 PM.

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  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    Still comes down to a lack of diversity in play. If you prefer spec 1 and weapon setup 1+2, then you are stuck with that. Unless you take another playstyle you're going to be hitting very few buttons for endlessly long boring sessions.

    The problem is not the choice in talents and whatnot. The problem is the availeble choices once you are IN combat and going. 15 abilities to take care of is nothing, nothing at all. Most of them have a cooldown aswell.. making you hit button 1 and button 2 like 100 times in comparison of hitton button 3 4 and 5 once each respectively.
    wow, this just goes to show that you really have a great misunderstanding of combat as it exists in GW2. most of the skills are skill shots which means there are consequences to when and how you use them, so you are not just going to be spamming all your abilities as soon as they are off cooldown, you use them when you need them or when the opportunities to maximize their effect arise. and it's funny how you scoff at having "only" 15 abilities in combat when in WoW you have access to all your 30+ abilities yet hardly use even 10 during a regular engagement. people get so caught up in fluff that they do not even see what is actually happening. another thing to note is that most skills in GW2 have multiple effects so your decision to use them is much graver than in traditional MMOs as these skills do have long cooldowns. believe what you want to about GW2 combat, just don't spread misinformation!
    Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!!!

    Guild Wars 2: Odeezee (Necromancer) || TERA: Odeezee (Archer-Ret) || SWTOR: Odeezee (Sith Inquisitor-Ret/Jedi Sage-Ret) || GW: Odeezee Fosho (Elementalist-Ret)
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  17. #57
    ow, this just goes to show that you really have a great misunderstanding of combat as it exists in GW2. most of the skills are skill shots which means there are consequences to when and how you use them, so you are not just going to be spamming all your abilities as soon as they are off cooldown, you use them when you need them or when the opportunities to maximize their effect arise. and it's funny how you scoff at having "only" 15 abilities in combat when in WoW you have access to all your 30+ abilities yet hardly use even 10 during a regular engagement. people get so caught up in fluff that they do not even see what is actually happening. another thing to note is that most skills in GW2 have multiple effects so your decision to use them is much graver than in traditional MMOs as these skills do have long cooldowns. believe what you want to about GW2 combat, just don't spread misinformation!
    I really feel bad for any new players that buy the game based on the stuff they read here, because it's just setting them up for more disappointment.

  18. #58
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odeezee View Post
    wow, this just goes to show that you really have a great misunderstanding of combat as it exists in GW2. most of the skills are skill shots which means there are consequences to when and how you use them, so you are not just going to be spamming all your abilities as soon as they are off cooldown, you use them when you need them or when the opportunities to maximize their effect arise. and it's funny how you scoff at having "only" 15 abilities in combat when in WoW you have access to all your 30+ abilities yet hardly use even 10 during a regular engagement. people get so caught up in fluff that they do not even see what is actually happening. another thing to note is that most skills in GW2 have multiple effects so your decision to use them is much graver than in traditional MMOs as these skills do have long cooldowns. believe what you want to about GW2 combat, just don't spread misinformation!

    That is just blatantly false. At least for my person.

    Either way, i didn't talk about how you use them at all. Just that they work with cooldowns.
    When you use them is irrilevant to the topic hence i didn't blend it into the conversation. Their use is severely limited. That is the point.

    I don't like the idea of hitting 1 and 2 100 times and just waiting for the right moment on the others. I want some more choices as to how my fight progresses aside from long cooldowns.

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  19. #59
    I think this thread went rapidly off topic guys, i just wanted to know if its a worthwhile alternative to WoW in reguards to PvP only.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    I really feel bad for any new players that buy the game based on the stuff they read here, because it's just setting them up for more disappointment.
    nah, what is disappointing is reading opinions about stuff without first understanding the subject matter and second not giving factual references. giving the OP your "feelings" on why GW2 PvP is bad or whatever does not help him decide at all, you are just using this thread as a soap box to air out your grievances.
    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    Either way, i didn't talk about how you use them at all. Just that they work with cooldowns.
    When you use them is irrilevant to the topic hence i didn't blend it into the conversation. Their use is severely limited. That is the point.
    so your argument is that you just want more buttons to push between cooldowns? you do realize that you have at least 2 weapon sets which meant you actually have 4 buttons to push or does that not count seeing as you get access to one weapon set at a time? not to mention chaining skills together for greater effect aka spell-weaving, or using cpcs. it seems as though the thing "limiting" the use of skills in your case is a user issue and not a game issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    I don't like the idea of hitting 1 and 2 100 times and just waiting for the right moment on the others. I want some more choices as to how my fight progresses aside from long cooldowns.
    /sigh. you really don't get it. your loss.
    Quote Originally Posted by infernouk View Post
    I think this thread went rapidly off topic guys, i just wanted to know if its a worthwhile alternative to WoW in reguards to PvP only.
    honestly, if you are a casual gamer that does not theory-craft or play well in a co-ordinated group then you will just have fun in Hot-Join. if you like organized group based PvP, the Tournaments are where it's at.

    i was personally never a fan of PvP in trinity based games because the trinity warps and restricts PvP: team with a healer or particular comp generally always wins. there is little variation in WoW PvP compared to GW2 and the fact that EVERY profession can heal themselves opens up the game and you can do some amazing things which you cannot do in a trinity based game. you no longer have to wait for the right class or gear, just grab some friends of any level 2+ and have at it. but as i have said before you have to try it out yourself, the game is at the very least worth the price of entry.
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