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  1. #81
    everyone worried or serious about GW2 PvP needs to watch this video. it is very informative and lays out the framework for the future of GW2 PvP both structured and some WvW. it's about an hour but it's well worth the watch if PvP is your thing. it's with one of the sPvP dev leads from ArenaNet Johnathan Sharp.

    Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!!!

    Guild Wars 2: Odeezee (Necromancer) || TERA: Odeezee (Archer-Ret) || SWTOR: Odeezee (Sith Inquisitor-Ret/Jedi Sage-Ret) || GW: Odeezee Fosho (Elementalist-Ret)
    Aion: Odeezee (Sorcerer-Ret), ODZ (Spirit Master-Ret) || War
    : Odeezee (Sorcerer-Ret) || AoC: Odeezee (Demonologist-Ret) || WoW: Odeezee (Druid-Ret), Thaone (Mage-Ret)

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    That wasn't what I was talking about at all. My post was PVP neutral actually. I even said it.

    What I was talking about is strategic depth- of which GW2 is far more shallow and has objectively fewer considerations. There is little meta thought to GW2. Everything is straight forward as the gameplay systems are not a real function of reaction. Twitch reaction being the greater emphasis in GW2 than in stat driven games.

    By nature of design you only think about one of those in a higher sense.

    Tactically, GW2 probably does have more depth than Warcraft. In a higher design sense? Not at all. Game design is not opinion.

    Also simple systems are not inherently a negative. One of the greatest [& purest] PVP video games created is Pong. Complex game?

    Agreed. Not sure why it is relevant. But agreed all the same.

    ...and if someone incorrectly states an aspect of design I am more than willing to call them out on it.

    Lots of folks gave valid opinions on the pros/cons of the PVP aspects in GW2.


    See above.

    I was not talking about the meta game in the sense of strictly PVP. It is a matter of strategic depth in the base gameplay models. GW2 is not at the level of Warcraft as a matter design. It is more reactive based and less dependent on extrinsic calculations.

    If I miss in GW2, I missed because my judgement was poor in a given instance or I was out played. There is no higher consideration of my to-hit stat, to dodge, to reduce crits, etc.

    Yes, GW2 is more simple, straight forward in meta play consideration. There is less to consider and what all choices are more straight forward.
    The strategic depth of PvE is of no interest to this debate, Fencers. The topic is PvP. And the strategic depth of what you mentioned compared to the choices given in GW2, PvP-wise, is the same as that of a puddle. Please admit that random stats do not make for a deeper strategic metagame in PvP. It's debatable in PvE, but it is by no means a given fact. You also completely neglect to argue how the stats are superiour in WoW. WoW's metagame is not that complex, it has some merit, but it is entirely gear dependant and your opinion remains a worthless one when you make no attempt to compare the two stat-systems for the sake of your argument (as far as I can see, given that I have not read the entire thread). A complex metagame would offer more than one optimal playstyle and different ways to approach your goal. In my mind GW2 does this better. I could also argue that the depth in WoW's stat system is simply an illusion, as long as there's an optimal tier of gear out there which would best any other choice.

    Ultimately, the stats in WoW offer little depth and function more as a restriction upon what content you may experience in the same way an xp-bar does. The difference? With xp you gain levels, and talent/trait points. These give meaningful choices. Nothing ever changes in the stat department, though, unless there is a diversity great enough to support builds which rely on completely different stats. Which GW2 does, where WoW does not. In WoW's case the depth in stats as a metagame has been decreasing over the years, from my point of view at least.

    Our interest here, Fencers, is the PvP-portion of the game. Where my argument stands strongly, independant of how stats affect PvE.
    Last edited by Atelniar; 2012-12-09 at 10:26 AM.
    There is common sense and ignorance. Choose one and accept the consequences.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Odeezee View Post
    everyone worried or serious about GW2 PvP needs to watch this video. it is very informative and lays out the framework for the future of GW2 PvP both structured and some WvW. it's about an hour but it's well worth the watch if PvP is your thing. it's with one of the sPvP dev leads from ArenaNet Johnathan Sharp.

    ill watch this before buying, but what ive learned from WoW and other MMO's is devs are quick to say what they will do and slow to implement.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by infernouk View Post
    ill watch this before buying, but what ive learned from WoW and other MMO's is devs are quick to say what they will do and slow to implement.
    That they are, indeed. Make your decision based on here and now, that is best. The question here is if you feel a one-time purchase is good enough value for money compared to other options. There are other PvP-oriented games out there that may be an alternative. Forge has been mentioned.
    There is common sense and ignorance. Choose one and accept the consequences.

  5. #85
    GW2:
    No duels
    No arenas
    In BG, you need at last 5+ people to capture something (In WoW for example, if you are extremely good, you can solo WSG).

    Everything else is ok.

  6. #86
    Mechagnome LolretKJ's Avatar
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    If you ever played Warhammer Online, it's very close to the PvP from that game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    Oh would you now? It truly is amazing how many heroic people we have wasting their time on internet.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by LolretKJ View Post
    If you ever played Warhammer Online, it's very close to the PvP from that game.
    Never played it.

  8. #88
    Mechagnome LolretKJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infernouk View Post
    Never played it.
    Heavily objective and team fight based. You fight over control points and battle for various resources eventually leading up to an assault on a major castle. The realm with the best teamwork and coordination usually dominates at RvR.

    There are no brackets, you get bumped up to max level when you enter RvR.

    As far as the tournaments go I didn't really play them much as I wasn't very good, and got stomped a lot by better players.

    Overall, I really enjoy the PvP in GW2, I play the game fairly casually and log on maybe 1-3 times a week to do some RvR with friends.

    I'd say it's highly worth the buy.

    Plus, there's no sub. I play it when I want to play it, and I don't when I don't. No subscription or anything to worry about.
    Last edited by LolretKJ; 2012-12-09 at 12:02 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    Oh would you now? It truly is amazing how many heroic people we have wasting their time on internet.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Atelniar View Post
    Our interest here, Fencers, is the PvP-portion of the game.
    Very True. The error was mine for speaking so generally about the gameplay systems.

    However, I do stand by my statement that the basic model does not change on game mode. Stats effect Guild Wars 2 combat to a very small degree. Even then linearly.

    The game is predicated on twitch action. Not strategic consideration.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Very True. The error was mine for speaking so generally about the gameplay systems.

    However, I do stand by my statement that the basic model does not change on game mode. Stats effect Guild Wars 2 combat to a very small degree. Even then linearly.

    The game is predicated on twitch action. Not strategic consideration.
    Yet, the manner in which you optimise your character through the open trait builds and weapon choices (enhanced by what kind of stats you want) greatly determine how you approach PvP combat in GW2, with that as my argument I do believe it does offer some strategic consideration. Depending on if you want range viability, melee focus, etc. Therefore, I think you are somewhat blunt and miss your target with this statement. RNG stats such as dodge offer very little depth (as you naturally want the stat if you can have it, it is not a choice), hence it is no great loss to "strategic" elements of PvP.
    There is common sense and ignorance. Choose one and accept the consequences.

  11. #91
    i went ahead and bought the game guys. im playing a thief, though I have no idea about how builds and gear work yet.

    Whats the quickest route to some cool looking gear? I hate looking default. Also, best spec for a noob thief?

    Cheers!

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by infernouk View Post
    i went ahead and bought the game guys. im playing a thief, though I have no idea about how builds and gear work yet.

    Whats the quickest route to some cool looking gear? I hate looking default. Also, best spec for a noob thief?

    Cheers!
    for a theif the majority option is stack power and crit and go glass cannon. Anything that does more damage pick it up. And use stealth abilitys for quick escapes.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    for a theif the majority option is stack power and crit and go glass cannon. Anything that does more damage pick it up. And use stealth abilitys for quick escapes.
    thanks, anyone have any recommended places i can find a solid proven build?

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by infernouk View Post
    thanks, anyone have any recommended places i can find a solid proven build?
    I play a Thief myself, and I could help you out a little at least. But you should start by trying out the different type of weapons and abilities you have. Use the Heart of the Mists as a playground (the mobs there work like advanced training dummies).

    Some pieces of advice: Usually I recommend going full out in the precision traits. Why? Because the thief is very reliant on crit and crit damage with many builds. At least if your main goal is to deal damage and not stay alive eternally. At the very end of that tree you get two static damage boosts which works nicely. One gives a basic 10% damage boost while maintaining a given amount of initiative (resource). The other gives you a 20% damage burst when your target hits 50% of its health and until it is dead.

    From there on out it depends on what abilities and weapons you pick, but I can explain the theory behind my own build which relies on Steal as a mechanic and the traits which gives my character extra utility through this ability. Whenever I activate Steal I give people around me a +20% crit boon, along with some attack power and a movement buff for twenty seconds. Add to the fact that I have specced into another tree which gives me extra initiative (helps the burst output without losing the +10% damage ouput from the Precision tree) and also reduced the cooldown on my Steal ability. I have also picked up a trait that allows me to do fairly decent damage when I use Steal on someone, which makes it a key-ability in my build.

    To further advance my burst damage I rely on a skill called Haste which gives me 4 seconds of quickness. Quickness basically doubles your damage. I have also picked up the traits that reduce the cooldown on this skill.

    The pros with this build is that it has some great support utility and heavy burst output, as well decent damage output on a whole. Another advantage is the fact that it works well with most weapons. Especially dual guns, harpoons, daggers, sword+pistol and so on. It really shows you how powerful Steal is as an ability, as the Steal ability also gives situational tools such as a "death coil", heal, stealth, or a "whirlwind" attack. Steal is also a gap closer for our "class", hence it becomes almost bread and butter for you with this build.

    Now, this build is based on my playstyle as I often change weapons and like to control my burst while still being able to move around quick and aid others with boons, etc. You should play around with the traits and weapons and find something which suits you well.

    Here's a link to it.
    Last edited by Atelniar; 2012-12-10 at 12:13 AM.
    There is common sense and ignorance. Choose one and accept the consequences.

  15. #95
    hey guys, couple questions after a day of playing.

    Is there a central EU spvp server like stormscale is on wow? the people i see seem to all be pretty default in their gear so wondered if theres a server for the hardcore?

    Also with forging items, is the best way to do it to save and buy gold chests for whatever tier i can get (1 at the moment obviously) salvage what isnt cool and then when i randomly get 4 different things run them through the forge?

    I hate looking default so want to get into new gear asap. I assume most cool stuff I cant have until im max tier?

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by infernouk View Post
    hey guys, couple questions after a day of playing.

    Is there a central EU spvp server like stormscale is on wow? the people i see seem to all be pretty default in their gear so wondered if theres a server for the hardcore?

    Also with forging items, is the best way to do it to save and buy gold chests for whatever tier i can get (1 at the moment obviously) salvage what isnt cool and then when i randomly get 4 different things run them through the forge?

    I hate looking default so want to get into new gear asap. I assume most cool stuff I cant have until im max tier?
    1. not sure about a central EU server as GW2 sPvP is region wide regardless of what server you enter from, you are playing with everyone in EU. but i would find out what server Team Paradigm, eStars and those other kind of teams are on then go from there.

    2. if you want the top tier bags then get gold chests. i usually just get the gold chests for the bags i need then after that i buy silver chests. you have a lower chance of getting rare items but you can basically get 2 silver chests for one gold so that's how i roll. the best way to make better looking gear is to salvage items and then use the recipes to craft what you want.

    you can start learning more about the sPvP Mystic Forge here: http://epicguildwars2.com/forum/post...ge-pvp-recipes
    Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!!!

    Guild Wars 2: Odeezee (Necromancer) || TERA: Odeezee (Archer-Ret) || SWTOR: Odeezee (Sith Inquisitor-Ret/Jedi Sage-Ret) || GW: Odeezee Fosho (Elementalist-Ret)
    Aion: Odeezee (Sorcerer-Ret), ODZ (Spirit Master-Ret) || War
    : Odeezee (Sorcerer-Ret) || AoC: Odeezee (Demonologist-Ret) || WoW: Odeezee (Druid-Ret), Thaone (Mage-Ret)

  17. #97
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Unless anything changed in 4 months time, those guys are on Desolation.

    i5-3570k @ 4.4GHz|8GB DDR3 1600MHz|EVGA GTX 670 FTW x2 SLI|Samsung 830 128GB SSD

  18. #98
    ok thanks guys, i think desolation is full?

    Ive used the forge to make a pretty cool dagger, so i get even more awesome looking stuff when i get up to the higher level brackets? I see people with awesome gear but assume they are top ranked?

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by infernouk View Post
    ok thanks guys, i think desolation is full?

    Ive used the forge to make a pretty cool dagger, so i get even more awesome looking stuff when i get up to the higher level brackets? I see people with awesome gear but assume they are top ranked?
    that's pretty much how it goes.
    i went from this:



    to this:

    Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!!!

    Guild Wars 2: Odeezee (Necromancer) || TERA: Odeezee (Archer-Ret) || SWTOR: Odeezee (Sith Inquisitor-Ret/Jedi Sage-Ret) || GW: Odeezee Fosho (Elementalist-Ret)
    Aion: Odeezee (Sorcerer-Ret), ODZ (Spirit Master-Ret) || War
    : Odeezee (Sorcerer-Ret) || AoC: Odeezee (Demonologist-Ret) || WoW: Odeezee (Druid-Ret), Thaone (Mage-Ret)

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by LolretKJ View Post
    If you ever played Warhammer Online, it's very close to the PvP from that game.
    I actually disagree with this... excluding the whole level-boosting thing GW2 does, there's also the gear normalization. What it essentially means is that while Warhammer allows gear to play a role in the fighting, GW2 is solely about strategy (and builds, but I'd rank those as strategy).

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