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  1. #1021
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    No, because you're wrong, and you refuse to provide any sources to back your claims up. It isn't a "fact". It's a figment of your imagination. You'd have as much luck trying to convince me that unicorns are real.

    That's not fair; there's more evidence of unicorns than there is for your argument, here.
    So you are saying you could see players from other realms when out in the world prior to CRZ?

    Really?


    That's not even a little bit true. You don't get to change a contract because circumstances not described in the contract remained constant and you decided to include them after the fact.
    The contract (ToS) is blank. All that anyone can go off is what has happened and what is reasonable for the average person to assume.

  2. #1022
    good to see that people are still discussing this cause it still feels like being stabbed in the back by Blizzard with the introduction of CRZ.
    we had a nice quit realm .... and then they brought in the bullies.

  3. #1023
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Not by much in court, as a it can be shown that Blizzard ignores their own ToS.
    I am unsure of what kind of an in-game breach of the ToS we are talking about that would justify a lawsuit in the first place. I furthermore made a note about legality and just now edited an additional line in order to better express my opinion regarding this.

    I am by now also unsure of what you are even arguing about in this topic that relates to the original issue(s).

  4. #1024
    Quote Originally Posted by stresskiller View Post
    good to see that people are still discussing this cause it still feels like being stabbed in the back by Blizzard with the introduction of CRZ.
    we had a nice quit realm .... and then they brought in the bullies.
    Don't get your hopes up it isn't going anywhere :P

  5. #1025
    Quote Originally Posted by Brytryne View Post
    Don't get your hopes up it isn't going anywhere :P
    not counting on pulling my wallet for blizzard for a long time , but i'm surprised that they are still ignoring this problem.
    They used to care about the players guess they can afford it to lose more customers.

  6. #1026
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    So you are saying you could see players from other realms when out in the world prior to CRZ?

    Really?
    No, I'm saying that whether you could or not was never part of the definition of "PvP server". You're making that up. And I'll keep pointing that out until you provide a dictionary definition that explicitly includes community exclusivity, or a Blue/Blizzard policy document that confirms it.


  7. #1027
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    No, I'm saying that whether you could or not was never part of the definition of "PvP server". You're making that up. And I'll keep pointing that out until you provide a dictionary definition that explicitly includes community exclusivity, or a Blue/Blizzard policy document that confirms it.
    I didn't refer to any definition, only how things really were.

    Blizzard has no definitions - once the ToS says they can change anything, only practice matters, the ToS is worthless as a guide after that. It's blank, irrelevent.

  8. #1028
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    I didn't refer to any definition, only how things really were.

    Blizzard has no definitions - once the ToS says they can change anything, only practice matters, the ToS is worthless as a guide after that. It's blank, irrelevent.
    Not as irrelevant as an opinion in a debate over facts.

  9. #1029
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brytryne View Post
    Not as irrelevant as an opinion in a debate over facts.
    I agree completely, I am pointing out how things actually were and Endus here wants random definitions from a completely changable document to supersede actual history.

    it's rather insane.

  10. #1030
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    I didn't refer to any definition, only how things really were.
    Which is irrelevant, when we're discussing what Blizzard has to be providing to its customers based on the terms of its agreements, which we are. Otherwise, we're back down to you saying "I don't like PvP servers" and me saying "well, there's PvE servers to play on instead."


  11. #1031
    I am Murloc! Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brytryne View Post
    Not as irrelevant as an opinion in a debate over facts.
    There's no facts when the ToS isn't even followed by Blizzard.

    That's the sad point in it all: if the issuer doesn't follow it's own rules, they alone negate the rules.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes.
    They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."


  12. #1032
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Which is irrelevant, when we're discussing what Blizzard has to be providing to its customers based on the terms of its agreements, which we are. Otherwise, we're back down to you saying "I don't like PvP servers" and me saying "well, there's PvE servers to play on instead."
    it's agreements are blank, Endus.

    The only thing that we can go off is what they actually did.

    Which you seem to be in denial about, for some reason.

  13. #1033
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    There's no facts when the ToS isn't even followed by Blizzard.

    That's the sad point in it all: if the issuer doesn't follow it's own rules, they alone negate the rules.
    The only fact is they can do whatever they want and if you disagree you can terminate the subscription.
    NOTHING else.

    Also I have no idea what you are talking about regarding they breaking the ToS. Unless it's about overcharging your credit card and not paying it back it has nothing to do with anything. And if it is some tinfoil blizz is an evil corporation that eats babies for lunch conspiracy bs please keep it to yourself.

  14. #1034
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    I think Ghostcrawler has that honor with merit.

    He has been a WoW developer since before D3 was in the works, and would know of the policies from Blizzard HQ itself. That's a design policy, Nerraw, regardless of department. It's well known that Blizzard regarded things like arena being one of their worst mistakes, for example...

    http://wow.joystiq.com/2009/11/13/bl...ere-a-mistake/

    And please don't tell us because Pardo has no bearing on how WoW is made or the design philosophies at Blizzard. -_-
    Disliking the current arena format != disliking PVP. I don't see him saying anything about removing PVP from the game entirely.

  15. #1035
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    The only thing that we can go off is what they actually did.
    Some of these things including world PvP and the population density on low level areas were not in a state they were happy with. Both of these have been unsuccessfully promoted in the past. CRZ is the latest addition and the usage of similar technology will likely become a household design choice in WoW and other MMORPGs in the future. Realms are a dying concept in mainstream gaming.

  16. #1036
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    I doubt you see much you don't want to, tbh.
    Nope, I'm pretty good with the state of things at the moment.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-23 at 09:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Not by much in court, as a it can be shown that Blizzard ignores their own ToS.

    Rules are made for both the company and customers. When the company ignores their own rules, the courts take a dim view of it (as laws are there as to protect parties).
    Which part specificaly is it that they ignore?

  17. #1037
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    it's agreements are blank, Endus.
    They aren't.
    The only thing that we can go off is what they actually did.
    No, you can't base anything on that. I have no idea why you think "random coincidental occurences not mentioned in any agreement" have any validity at all, especially when Blizzard reserves the right to change anything they like about the game, at any time, with no notice, in the TOU.
    Which you seem to be in denial about, for some reason.
    Because it's all fundamentally untrue.


  18. #1038
    Quote Originally Posted by stresskiller View Post
    good to see that people are still discussing this cause it still feels like being stabbed in the back by Blizzard with the introduction of CRZ.
    we had a nice quit realm .... and then they brought in the bullies.
    The game is not supposed to be quiet. It's an MMO, there's meant to be people everywhere.

  19. #1039
    I am Murloc! Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    The game is not supposed to be quiet. It's an MMO, there's meant to be people everywhere.
    At 3am MMOs are very quiet, even in WoW. Not everyone plays prime time, and no CRZ is going to help then, anyway.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes.
    They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."


  20. #1040
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    [QUOTE=Endus;19551342]They aren't.[/quote

    A contract that openly states anything in it is changable is exactly the same as if it was a blank page.

    No, you can't base anything on that. I have no idea why you think "random coincidental occurences not mentioned in any agreement" have any validity at all, especially when Blizzard reserves the right to change anything they like about the game, at any time, with no notice, in the TOU.

    Because it's all fundamentally untrue.
    The ToU is a blank page, all that matters is what actually happened.

    Sorry you don't like it, but suck it up. Facts > blank page.

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