Page 51 of 74 FirstFirst ...
41
49
50
51
52
53
61
... LastLast
  1. #1001
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    78,905
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    By practice and the basic english definition of the word server, there is.
    No, you're just making things up and pretending that what you imagine has any legal support at all. You may as well claim that WoW owes you a living, breathing, cinder kitten in real life because you totally thought you were buying an actual pet for $5. Making false assumptions does not lend those assumptions any credibility.

    If you're going to claim they AREN'T false assumptions, then source them, with either a blue post or a Blizzard realm policy. I'll even accept a dictionary definition if said definition specifically describes server community exclusivity; if it doesn't, you're inventing that and we're back to "making up false assumptions".


  2. #1002
    I am Murloc! Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Basking in the Light
    Posts
    5,198
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    It's funny how quickly Jay Wilson's words became law after being the most hated man in Blizzard since May. And not only that, the leading Diablo 3 developer being asked about things not in his department. If you can give me an interview with an actual WoW developer mirroring his thoughts, I'm willing to listen. Until then, your argument has no value.
    I think Ghostcrawler has that honor with merit.

    He has been a WoW developer since before D3 was in the works, and would know of the policies from Blizzard HQ itself. That's a design policy, Nerraw, regardless of department. It's well known that Blizzard regarded things like arena being one of their worst mistakes, for example...

    http://wow.joystiq.com/2009/11/13/bl...ere-a-mistake/

    And please don't tell us because Pardo has no bearing on how WoW is made or the design philosophies at Blizzard. -_-
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes.
    They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."


  3. #1003
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    My argument doesn't require anything except to point at the evidence of 8 years of server based pvp.

    Pvp server meant only people from your server for 8 years. You can wave all the policies and blue posts you like - they don't matter. Things were how they were, and people made decisions based on how they were. How things are/were > some concept in a manual no one ever read.
    Not Blizzard's fault no one read it. It's their game, it's their rules. And their rules say that the only constant on PVP realms is being able to hit or be hit by the opposing faction at any time. That was true then, that is true now.

  4. #1004
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Brytryne View Post
    The only thing (well not the only, but one of them) the ToS says is we can change things however we want.
    Which makes the ToS worthless.


    Context. It's a game. If you bring this particular case to court he will smack you in the head with the hammer and say "first world problems" and possibly even send you to jail for wasting everyone's time.
    I already said it was frivolous.

    Principle is sound, however. Take money for providing x for 8 years then stop or radically alter it or provide something else and you won't get away with it. Not even if you point to what is essentuially a blank piece of paper.

  5. #1005
    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    where did you go during woltk and cata?

    you stayed on your own server , oh wait...servers no longer exist and there lies part of the problem, the only reason i mentioned the bg/ rbg thing as because thats what a pvp servver seems to be turning into now a giant uninstanced bg
    I didn't go anywhere, why? Because no other server/servertype had what I was looking for, ie. the potential for finding yourself in a warzone no matter which zone you are in or what level you are. Why do you think there were so many complaints about the lack of world PVP? Because there were no people in the old world zones, not even on the densest populated realms.

  6. #1006
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    No, you're just making things up and pretending that what you imagine has any legal support at all. You may as well claim that WoW owes you a living, breathing, cinder kitten in real life because you totally thought you were buying an actual pet for $5. Making false assumptions does not lend those assumptions any credibility.

    If you're going to claim they AREN'T false assumptions, then source them, with either a blue post or a Blizzard realm policy. I'll even accept a dictionary definition if said definition specifically describes server community exclusivity; if it doesn't, you're inventing that and we're back to "making up false assumptions".
    No mate, this is after the fact.

    Blizzard HAVE provided pvp servers in the sense I mean them for 8 long years. They've taken the money, provided the service. Now they have changed it.

    There is no assumption being made, it's a fact that this occured.

  7. #1007
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    And please don't tell us because Pardo has no bearing on how WoW is made or the design philosophies at Blizzard. -_-
    Class balance issues in PvP became more obvious with the introduction of the arenas and that is something the World of Warcraft development team has acknowledged. I have no reason arguing that. That is still a topic that largely affects competitive PvP and does not in any reasonable way affect world PvP which is not fair and balanced by design.

  8. #1008
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    78,905
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    No mate, this is after the fact.

    Blizzard HAVE provided pvp servers in the sense I mean them for 8 long years.
    That bit in bold is where you make up stuff that has no bearing on anything. It only matters how Blizzard means them and defines them.

    They've taken the money, provided the service. Now they have changed it.

    There is no assumption being made, it's a fact that this occured.
    They have changed nothing about their own definitions of "PvP server". It changed something you assumed, but the stuff you made up is irrelevant.


  9. #1009
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Which makes the ToS worthless.
    Yet you agreed to it. Hm.

    I already said it was frivolous.

    Principle is sound, however. Take money for providing x for 8 years then stop or radically alter it or provide something else and you won't get away with it. Not even if you point to what is essentuially a blank piece of paper.
    You forget or choose to ignore the fact that the game is a different game than it was 8 years ago not just because of CRZ. If anything that's a minor thing compared to other major changes, at least to people who don't get hung up on things that really don't affect them as hard as say a simple class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    No mate, this is after the fact.

    Blizzard HAVE provided pvp servers in the sense I mean them for 8 long years. They've taken the money, provided the service. Now they have changed it.

    There is no assumption being made, it's a fact that this occured.
    I don't think anyone denies that. They change things all the time. Have you even played the game?

  10. #1010
    I am Murloc! Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Basking in the Light
    Posts
    5,198
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Which makes the ToS worthless.
    It is when Blizzard ignores their own ToS, especially with the twink BG exploit. If Blizzard doesn't even follow it, how can players?

    Again it's leading by example, not excusing the law as someone sees fit.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes.
    They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."


  11. #1011
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    8 years of practice is the agreement. You perform a service for someone in the same way for 8 years and then alter it overnight, that person woud have a decent case in court, ToS style agreements would be ignored.
    So if some company breaks a contract continously for 8 years, it suddenly flies in court?

    Brb, creating shady businesses.

  12. #1012
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    That bit in bold is where you make up stuff that has no bearing on anything. It only matters how Blizzard means them and defines them.
    No, pvp servers in the sense I have defined them on thsi thread are what factually has been delivered for 8 years. Even if blizzard didn't mean to, didn't define them that way and never intended to.

    It's just a fact. Accept it.

    They have changed nothing about their own definitions of "PvP server". It changed something you assumed, but the stuff you made up is irrelevant.
    I didn't assume anything, I simply described the facts of what has already occured for 8 years. You seem to think that a blank piece of paper or your own preferences changes that. It doesn't.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-23 at 07:45 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    So if some company breaks a contract continously for 8 years, it suddenly flies in court?

    Brb, creating shady businesses.
    No, what a company does for 8 years becomes the contract.

  13. #1013
    Quote Originally Posted by Brytryne View Post
    Not to everyone. I made you a picture, please study it.




    Sir, I love you for that picture, but I am afraid I have to implore you to change it from "RP nerds" to "RP elitists" or "RP extremists". I do roleplay, and I'm not like that.

    Thanks for the awesome sig, Lady Amuno.

  14. #1014
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    It is when Blizzard ignores their own ToS, especially with the twink BG exploit. If Blizzard doesn't even follow it, how can players?
    Terms of Service largely exists in order to protect the company and to give it the right to do whatever it sees fit. I would also be surprised if any part of it, however, required Blizzard to take action if no laws are being broken.

    Of course it is not a good practice to let blatant and notable breaches of the ToS go unpunished, but that again I think is another topic altogether.

  15. #1015
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    yes, they chose a pvp server. And ow they aren't getting a pvp server. They are getting the pvp, but not the server.
    I see nothing to prevent you from playing with people on your own realm.

  16. #1016
    I am Murloc! Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Basking in the Light
    Posts
    5,198
    Quote Originally Posted by Brytryne View Post
    I don't think anyone denies that. They change things all the time. Have you even played the game?
    Do you understand how detrimental that is in keeping players, too?

    When Coca-Cola changed it's formula back in the 80s there was an uproar over it. They pigheadedly kept trying to convince customers it's their new product and enjoy it. It got so bad during the cola wars, that Coca-Cola had to bring Coke back (unfortunately with corn syrup making it taste flat). Those who remember it no longer take such an American icon for granted anymore, as their trust was betrayed.

    There's countless other stories of big name companies that upset the apple cart, some out of business due to it, some learning bitter lessons not to anger the customers (Coca-Cola lost a heck of a lot of money trying to toss a tried and true product for "newness").

    Even the addicted can get upset enough.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes.
    They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."


  17. #1017
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    I see nothing to prevent you from playing with people on your own realm.
    I doubt you see much you don't want to, tbh.

  18. #1018
    I am Murloc! Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Basking in the Light
    Posts
    5,198
    Quote Originally Posted by Keoren View Post
    Terms of Service largely exists in order to protect the company and to give it the right to do whatever it sees fit. I would also be surprised if any part of it, however, required Blizzard to take action if no laws are being broken.
    Not by much in court, as a it can be shown that Blizzard ignores their own ToS.

    Rules are made for both the company and customers. When the company ignores their own rules, the courts take a dim view of it (as laws are there as to protect parties).
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes.
    They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."


  19. #1019
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Do you understand how detrimental that is in keeping players, too?

    When Coca-Cola changed it's formula back in the 80s there was an uproar over it. They pigheadedly kept trying to convince customers it's their new product and enjoy it. It got so bad during the cola wars, that Coca-Cola had to bring Coke back (unfortunately with corn syrup making it taste flat). Those who remember it no longer take such an American icon for granted anymore, as their trust was betrayed.

    There's countless other stories of big name companies that upset the apple cart, some out of business due to it, some learning bitter lessons not to anger the customers (Coca-Cola lost a heck of a lot of money trying to toss a tried and true product for "newness").

    Even the addicted can get upset enough.
    People quit over stuff all the time mate. Your "cause" isn't any different and there aren't many of you.
    May I again suggest playing a game you enjoy?

  20. #1020
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    78,905
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    No, pvp servers in the sense I have defined them on thsi thread are what factually has been delivered for 8 years. Even if blizzard didn't mean to, didn't define them that way and never intended to.

    It's just a fact. Accept it.
    No, because you're wrong, and you refuse to provide any sources to back your claims up. It isn't a "fact". It's a figment of your imagination. You'd have as much luck trying to convince me that unicorns are real.

    That's not fair; there's more evidence of unicorns than there is for your argument, here.

    No, what a company does for 8 years becomes the contract.
    That's not even a little bit true. You don't get to change a contract because circumstances not described in the contract remained constant and you decided to include them after the fact.


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •