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  1. #41
    Stood in the Fire Kals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    i never said they were nerfing self -procing trinkets did i. actually i said exactly what blizz is doing right?then you come in here telling em to calm down for what?i dont give a shit if they nerf every trinket in game.the only questions i asked was if using two self procing trinkets is now a dps increase over the one use ones,and it is.

    telling someone to calm down does what?did i seem all worked up to you,no.was i calling people names and typing in caps,no.so whats your point for telling me to calm down?god dont you read my posts?i think you need to calm down with telling people to calm down.all your doing is trying to provoke me,so calm down REALLY
    Static DPS increase? Sure.

    Overall help in PvP/Arena? Not really.
    If you play a class that can cast dispellable buffs (Fort, MotW, Kings/Might, ect) that trinket can proc off those casts, making you suffer the 45s ICD. It also doesn't allow for the on-demand damage players need it for with their cooldowns. So while it would technically be a DPS increase if this were like PvE, not being able to control when you have the damage (it could proc off a dot while you're in a full poly for example) makes them still less wanted than the on-uses for most classes.

  2. #42
    they need to deal with the mechanics of the abilities that are scaling way way waaaaay to well with cd stacking, not just the cds themselves.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  3. #43
    As a moonkin I rely on incarnation/nature's vigil to get kills (3 minute cooldowns, pretty terrible damage outside of that), this is a terrible change for us... I don't know why they keep nerfing abilities that affect classes that aren't overpowered in pvp. It's sad to see how directionless wow pvp seems to be. These changes should be and should have been tested on the ptr, hotfixes should not be major changes like this. In the same vein fire mages and mistweaver monk hotfixes should have been on the ptr too. Sad.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Kezuma View Post
    ^ This , mages with trinket every freeze my rogue saiz hi , going to pve til 5.2;D
    this is actually really true. i was thinking about this yesterday while swapping between feral/mage and lock. classes that do extremely well in the game atm are classes that can mini burst frequently and force cds...imo. any class can force defensives and trinks with everything popped.. but if you can do so without using much you've just won the game.

    EI - feral - tiger's fury[30sec] / trink [60sec] and lets say Nature's Vigil[2mins..maybe 3 i cant remember] - i think thats around 40% more physical dmg + X for trink [~5,200 agil but now like 3,000 or whatever it works out to mael trink]. thats enough to do serious hurt. and 1 min later with you healer's trink down you're going die if you cant peel him off you ( which is so fkn easy with a feral :| ) when he pops trink AGAIN and TF + berserk and Incarn no matter what his partner is doing. gg.

    similar thoughts for mage.. ESP human mages.. no one's brought up how nasty the potential for double on use is going to be with humans, it's even more dangerous.

    Conversely, my lock is really only threatening with dark soul up.. thats 2 mins.. 1 min trink makes less of an impact for me. i'll probably just run aff + double on use and max my uptime.

    TLR - i dont like that this change seems to favor classes already doing well. guess we'll see what happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Lulbalance View Post
    this is actually really true. i was thinking about this yesterday while swapping between feral/mage and lock. classes that do extremely well in the game atm are classes that can mini burst frequently and force cds...imo. any class can force defensives and trinks with everything popped.. but if you can do so without using much you've just won the game.

    EI - feral - tiger's fury[30sec] / trink [60sec] and lets say Nature's Vigil[2mins..maybe 3 i cant remember] - i think thats around 40% more physical dmg + X for trink [~5,200 agil but now like 3,000 or whatever it works out to mael trink]. thats enough to do serious hurt. and 1 min later with you healer's trink down you're going die if you cant peel him off you ( which is so fkn easy with a feral :| ) when he pops trink AGAIN and TF + berserk and Incarn no matter what his partner is doing. gg.

    similar thoughts for mage.. ESP human mages.. no one's brought up how nasty the potential for double on use is going to be with humans, it's even more dangerous.

    Conversely, my lock is really only threatening with dark soul up.. thats 2 mins.. 1 min trink makes less of an impact for me. i'll probably just run aff + double on use and max my uptime.

    TLR - i dont like that this change seems to favor classes already doing well. guess we'll see what happens.
    It doesnt do that much for feral tbh. Tigers fury is more of a bleed amplifier than a burst per say. Its 6 seconds( 3-4 gcds depending on energy usage) of 15% more damage. You will use that on making your bleeds better, not bursting. Bursting is all on 3 minute cooldowns for druids.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by saltyharbls View Post
    It doesnt do that much for feral tbh. Tigers fury is more of a bleed amplifier than a burst per say. Its 6 seconds( 3-4 gcds depending on energy usage) of 15% more damage. You will use that on making your bleeds better, not bursting. Bursting is all on 3 minute cooldowns for druids.
    yea no kidding.. thats the point.

    i'm going to edit this to clarify further; burst = burst of damage.. vigil+TF+trink will result in a mini burst of dmg obv. you still have to play the game, but if you use it right and your partner has up time and you land any type of lasting cc on a healer: the result is probably going to be defensive CDs. this is why a shorter trink benefits ferals more than an affliction. that was my point.

    i didnt say pop TF and spam shred.. i said it increased the dmg exponentially when used with trink+X.
    Last edited by Lulbalance; 2012-12-08 at 07:16 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Lulbalance View Post
    yea no kidding.. thats the point.

    i'm going to edit this to clarify further; burst = burst of damage.. vigil+TF+trink will result in a mini burst of dmg obv. you still have to play the game, but if you use it right and your partner has up time and you land any type of lasting cc on a healer: the result is probably going to be defensive CDs. this is why a shorter trink benefits ferals more than an affliction. that was my point.

    i didnt say pop TF and spam shred.. i said it increased the dmg exponentially when used with trink+X.
    However you want to look at it, bleeds will never be burst. Its sustained damage. Sorry!

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by saltyharbls View Post
    However you want to look at it, bleeds will never be burst. Its sustained damage. Sorry!
    listen to yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by saltyharbls View Post
    However you want to look at it, bleeds will never be burst. Its sustained damage. Sorry!
    When 3 different bleed abilities crit at the same time for 30k each that's BURST. However you want to look at it, being crit for 90k within 0.5 seconds is burst regardless of the source of damage.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
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  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    When 3 different bleed abilities crit at the same time for 30k each that's BURST. However you want to look at it, being crit for 90k within 0.5 seconds is burst regardless of the source of damage.
    When 3 different bleeds crit at the same time that is rng-jackpot. Burst is something that is on demand and predictable. Dots are not burst.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-09 at 01:10 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Lulbalance View Post
    listen to yourself.
    Great argument!


    relevant information;

    http://www.wowwiki.com/Burst_damage

    Burst damage is a term used to describe dealing high amounts of damage in a very short period of time. Spells which qualify for burst damage are often mana inefficient. Burst damage may also refer to some PvE encounters in which a boss will inflict a lot of damage in a short time.
    Its main purpose in PvP is to bring an enemy down fast, often combined with Focus Fire, giving enemy healers as little chance as possible to heal the damage inflicted.
    A dot by defenition is not and will never be BURST. Simple as that.
    Last edited by saltyharbls; 2012-12-09 at 12:15 PM.

  11. #51
    10% less burst, sounds good to me

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by saltyharbls View Post
    When 3 different bleeds crit at the same time that is rng-jackpot. Burst is something that is on demand and predictable. Dots are not burst.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-09 at 01:10 PM ----------



    Great argument!


    relevant information;

    http://www.wowwiki.com/Burst_damage



    A dot by defenition is not and will never be BURST. Simple as that.
    you're a really smart guy!

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-09 at 02:19 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    When 3 different bleed abilities crit at the same time for 30k each that's BURST. However you want to look at it, being crit for 90k within 0.5 seconds is burst regardless of the source of damage.
    ^ yes, thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  13. #53
    imagine if you also have engineering while being human race... 50 seconds of uptime on trinkets and tinker and 10 seconds later you can do it again.

  14. #54
    Burst damage is unpredictable damage in a short period of time. A DoT in itself is not a burst, it is a mini burst if crits, it IS a burst if you can ramp up more than usual damage and have it to crit. It the same theory as Living Bomb/ Frost Bomb/ Haunt final tick. Living Bomb in itself is a DoT is the last tick not a burst? I'm sure most will agree it is sort of a burst, now imagine a Tiger's Fury normal DoTs all being considered as Living Bomb final tick you get the meaning of "Burst".

    Denying the fact that it is sort of a burst is just ignorance, your normal rotation our of cooldown can also be considered a "DoT" until you use your CD to ramp up the potential sustained damage, which in turn is termed as "Burst".

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by SnorlaxJeng View Post
    Burst damage is unpredictable damage in a short period of time.
    Really? I hope you meant predictable or it just makes your whole statement look silly.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by saltyharbls View Post
    Really? I hope you meant predictable or it just makes your whole statement look silly.
    It's actually both.

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