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  1. #1

    chaos wave stealth nerfed, frost bomb left alone.

    the bias from blizzard is sickening.

    sure, chaos wave was strong, but a lock needed to use dark soul, and only got this burst window every 2 minutes.

    frost mages have a window to kill a player every 30 seconds, without cooldowns, via deep freeze.

    how is this in ANY way fair or balanced.

  2. #2
    It's not.

    /10chars

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire CoolHwip46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moradim View Post
    frost mages have a window to kill a player every 9 seconds, without cooldowns, via deep freeze.
    fixed that for you.

    for the record, everything has to be popped (both damage trinkets, jade spirit and tailoring enchant) for me to POSSIBLY score a kill inside a deep freeze on an equivalently geared/skilled player. thats assuming neither of his partners are peeling for them or healing them. i can say though that yes, i have scored kills in the first 5 seconds of an arena match just completely catching them off guard and getting all my stuff to proc. is it fair? i think so, its all about reaction timing on their part, they could definitely have reacted and helped themselves/their partner. hell, look at all the close calls venruki/snutz had trying to score kills in the world championship. they would get their opponents low but its not like their target was falling over, there is always something you or your team mates can do to counter you.

    back on topic though, frost bomb damage will be fixed with the hotfix to on use trinkets. at least frost bomb can be stopped and only has the potential to do 50-60% (not saying thats okay by any means, id say it should be good for 30-40% though), chaos wave was just retarded. any lock worth anything, over 2100~, was two shotting people. the abilities would be comparable if mages had an arcane power type ability as frost to increase the damage further.

    id rather see a longer cooldown rather than such a drastic damage reduction to frost bomb. then at least its something to look out for. when youre constantly saving your dispells/interrupts for one specific ability every 9 seconds when you come across an enemy team with a mage, its not very fun.
    Last edited by CoolHwip46; 2012-12-07 at 03:24 AM.
    Why are you putting so much emphasis on the H?
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...n/Ulchi/simple

  4. #4
    nerf frost bomb, buff frostbolt.

    it's the only way to distinguish the good mages from the bads.

    and no, you cant stop frost bomb, not with the fire blast glyph. cant dispel what goes off instantly.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by CoolHwip46 View Post

    for the record, everything has to be popped (both damage trinkets, jade spirit and tailoring enchant) for me to POSSIBLY score a kill inside a deep freeze on an equivalently geared/skilled player.
    Uhh ok... same with chaos wave. Everything has to be popped + damage trinkets/tailoring/jade + sacrifice grimoire + RNG with 10% per wave crit chance + other team not popping any defensive cds to global something with 2 waves.

    The only difference is that chaos wave burst had a 2 minute cooldown and was instant cast. Frost mage has a 1.5 sec cast with a much shorter cooldown.

  6. #6
    frostbomb is just as retardedly strong as chaos wave was.

    and no, the trinket nerf is not a real nerf for mages. many classes can only burst 1 every 2-3 minutes, and deal no dmg outside of that. so burst is reduced for everyone, but while most classes will not realy benefit from the reduced CD on the on use trinkets, mages can now pop a deep freeze frostbomb with on use trinket every 1 minute, humans every 30 sec. pls dont try to defend mages.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Moradim View Post
    nerf frost bomb, buff frostbolt.
    I post this in nearly every thread which has Frost bomb in the title. It's such an easy way out that has no effect on PvE and would increase the skillcap in PvP. Getting a frostbomb cast off in a 3s arena game isn't hard especially if the target is deeped or ringed and the partners are ringed/feared/cloned etc.

    Getting frost bolt casts off would be much harder.

  8. #8
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    shifting dmg from frost bomb / skill lances into frostbolt is obvious move yet blizz still strugles to figure it out...

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by iWolfBanei View Post
    I post this in nearly every thread which has Frost bomb in the title. It's such an easy way out that has no effect on PvE and would increase the skillcap in PvP. Getting a frostbomb cast off in a 3s arena game isn't hard especially if the target is deeped or ringed and the partners are ringed/feared/cloned etc.

    Getting frost bolt casts off would be much harder.
    So, you say that Frost Mages should try to kill opponents just with Frostbolts? Then let Warlocks just cast Shadow Bolts, Priests Mind Blasts etc...
    I see people that lack skill to always go to the best and easiest for them solution: "If I can't avoid it it's wrong so remove it or nerf it".
    If you can't react/think fast in arena, If you mess the buttons on your keyboard and freeze on your screen screaming " Oh Jesus, wth, this can't be real", just try to practice and become a better player. It is not the Frost Bomb that is overpowered. It is you or your partner that can't react fast.
    You can escape/avoid/counterspell/dispell almost every single harmful spell in game. You just need to think ahead and fast. Frostbomb has a cast time, you can see it coming. If you are rooted in a Deep Freeze, Trinket it out. If you are caught in a RoF, then it is your fault you stepped into that or it is your fault or your partners' you let the mage cast a RoF.
    Practice makes you better. You don't become better if everyone else is nerfed...

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Alphamage View Post
    It is not the Frost Bomb that is overpowered. It is you or your partner that can't react fast.
    You can escape/avoid/counterspell/dispell almost every single harmful spell in game. You just need to think ahead and fast. Frostbomb has a cast time, you can see it coming. If you are rooted in a Deep Freeze, Trinket it out. If you are caught in a RoF, then it is your fault you stepped into that or it is your fault or your partners' you let the mage cast a RoF.
    Practice makes you better. You don't become better if everyone else is nerfed...
    I'm not complaining because I find it hard to avoid. I'm complaining because I play with a Mage and know how OP it is. Look at my 2s W/L next time you think i'm crying because I've been killed by it.

    Literally, we can analyse a game and how long it will last before gates open. If it's a Resto Druid, we force barkskin with first deep. Trinket with second. Barkskin with third and he'll die on the fourth. Every deep my Mage (or I) kites the healers partner next to the healer. We PoM ring both people, cast frost bomb on the healer and then deep>ffb>icelance spam until he dies. Works every time. I've got NS clone and bash if the partner trinkets.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Alphamage View Post
    I see people that lack skill to always go to the best and easiest for them solution: "If I can't avoid it it's wrong so remove it or nerf it".
    If you can't react/think fast in arena, If you mess the buttons on your keyboard and freeze on your screen screaming " Oh Jesus, wth, this can't be real", just try to practice and become a better player. It is not the Frost Bomb that is overpowered. It is you or your partner that can't react fast.
    You can escape/avoid/counterspell/dispell almost every single harmful spell in game. You just need to think ahead and fast. Frostbomb has a cast time, you can see it coming. If you are rooted in a Deep Freeze, Trinket it out. If you are caught in a RoF, then it is your fault you stepped into that or it is your fault or your partners' you let the mage cast a RoF.
    Practice makes you better. You don't become better if everyone else is nerfed...
    Frostbomb 8s CD (with haste)
    Deep freeze 30s CD

    Trinket 120s CD

    This makes your point invalid. Also, paired with something that gives the 5% spell haste buff frostbomb CD < dispel CD.

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral StaeleAilar's Avatar
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    Well while i agree with the mage stuff, the locks weren't "stealth nerfed". If you fail to read patch notes, that is your own problem.

  13. #13
    DW 180k frost bombs are balanced. Just L2P.

  14. #14
    Seeing as they posted about this nerf, it was not "stealth" deal with it.

  15. #15
    So, as you all claim for Frost Mages being so overpowered with Frost Bomb, I will wait to see a Frost Mage in every Top Ranked Arena team. But I doubt it....

  16. #16
    Scarab Lord Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluesftw View Post
    shifting dmg from frost bomb / skill lances into frostbolt is obvious move yet blizz still strugles to figure it out...
    Yeah, the only problem with frost in PvE is movement, now you want instants to do less damage, and casts to do more damage to hammer the last nail in frost PvE coffin.
    And i want to mind you, that getting rolled by frost mage on BG where you have 0 attention from healer/team is not an issue. And if you can't survive frosts burst in arena you need to try harder, because frost mages requires really low skill to 2-shot people under 1800
    Last edited by Charge me Doctor; 2012-12-07 at 11:52 AM.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Yeah, the only problem with frost in PvE is movement, now you want instants to do less damage, and casts to do more damage to hammer the last nail in frost PvE coffin.
    And i want to mind you, that getting rolled by frost mage on BG where you have 0 attention from healer/team is not an issue. And if you can't survive frosts burst in arena you need to try harder, because frost mages requires really low skill to 2-shot people under 1800
    Which is again, why we need spells to have different base damages depending on if they hit a player or an NPC. WoW will never, ever be balanced for as long as they have to try and balance both PvE and PvP at the same time with the same numbers.

  18. #18
    Warchief Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluesftw View Post
    shifting dmg from frost bomb / skill lances into frostbolt is obvious move yet blizz still strugles to figure it out...
    Quote Originally Posted by Moradim View Post
    nerf frost bomb, buff frostbolt.
    Quote Originally Posted by iWolfBanei View Post
    I post this in nearly every thread which has Frost bomb in the title. It's such an easy way out that has no effect on PvE and would increase the skillcap in PvP. Getting a frostbomb cast off in a 3s arena game isn't hard especially if the target is deeped or ringed and the partners are ringed/feared/cloned etc.

    Getting frost bolt casts off would be much harder.
    Except it does have a fair sized effect on PVE. It's our only bomb choice for large scale AOE, and is very slightly better than the other two bombs for frost single target. Frost bomb shatter combos is one of the only reasons I kept up DPS with the others on challenge mode trash. Even if you made the frostbolt buff a passive part of taking frost bomb, our AOE is screwed. Moving the damage into ice lance? Are you crazy? At least you can interrupt and dispel frost bomb, could you imagine the tears if one of our instants gets buffed? And what of the other two specs? They'd get nothing out of nerfing frost bomb, and they'd never end up using it because it became inferior to the other two.

    Look, it's going to hit hard. That's how the spell works. It's a DoT compressed into one blast. It's got to be worth the GCD spent for damage, so it's going to always have a decently high DPCT because it has to beat just about everything else. It has to be on par, single target PVE damage-wise, with the other two bomb spells. The cooldown and duration almost (brain freeze procs aside) entirely don't matter, because as long as it can be done when deep freeze is up, there will be tears; not to mention that if the cooldown was longer, the damage would be higher to match the overall DPCT of the other bombs in that duration. Even if you were to make deep freeze a 2m CD to match trinket, good mages will start throwing nova or freeze just as it goes off, and the tears will continue just as they are today. Removing it from shatter breaks us in challenge modes and feels clunky to have one spell, a frost one, not benefit from shatter.

    Short of redesigning the spec so the mastery isn't +shatter damage, I honestly don't see a decent solution that works in both PVP and PVE. This isn't as simple as nerfing a spec, this is a talent available to all three mage specs and is quite balanced in relation to the other two choices in single target PVE, and has a place among the three in AOE PVE. Flat out nerfing it hurts all mage specs, and removes a talent from viability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    Which is again, why we need spells to have different base damages depending on if they hit a player or an NPC. WoW will never, ever be balanced for as long as they have to try and balance both PvE and PvP at the same time with the same numbers.
    Agreed entirely. Sadly it seems they want to avoid that at all costs. I can't say I blame them too much, though; it'd be a massive workload to essentially double the spellbook of every player and keep them both updated for each patch.

    Edit: Okay, I lied. They could change frost bomb to 2 single hits, each for half of what it does now. I don't believe that it'd be possible to hit both in the same deep freeze, but it has awkward implications regarding brain freeze.
    Last edited by Kuni Zyrekai; 2012-12-07 at 01:20 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Alphamage View Post
    So, as you all claim for Frost Mages being so overpowered with Frost Bomb, I will wait to see a Frost Mage in every Top Ranked Arena team. But I doubt it....
    Just give it a couple of weeks.

  20. #20
    TLDR; 1500 players whining

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