chaos wave stealth nerfed, frost bomb left alone.

[Nemasisx]

My chaos wave still does nice dmg, but nice dmg isnt KILLING dmg, anyways got hit yesterday in a bg for 293k frost bomb, i was shocked since im like 60% resil and and as a warlock i dont tend to die so fast.

again, i was shocked.
either nerf it or do somthing to it, this is unacceptble, you cant nerf some abillities but leave this piece of shit mage out of the clear.

[Deleted]

My chaos wave still does nice dmg, but nice dmg isnt KILLING dmg, anyways got hit yesterday in a bg for 293k frost bomb, i was shocked since im like 60% resil and and as a warlock i dont tend to die so fast.

again, i was shocked.
either nerf it or do somthing to it, this is unacceptble, you cant nerf some abillities but leave this piece of shit mage out of the clear.

This is a frostbomb from probally the best pvp geared mage in the world -
~145k with jade spirit, trinket, lvl 90 talent, mage armor. You sure you got hit twice as hard by some random mage in a bg?


Mage burst obviously needs a nerf, (my guess is a nerf to Frost Burn) - so does few other classes, but some of the numbers ppl claims...

[Deleted]

Chaos wave is not stealthed nerfed if there was a patch note, and a GM talking about how they nerfed the cost and damge with i think it was 20 or 30%

[Ssateneth]

Make health pools bigger. No more burst.

[Magpai]

Well while i agree with the mage stuff, the locks weren't "stealth nerfed". If you fail to read patch notes, that is your own problem.

You're both wrong. It was an announced hotfix, so it wasn't stealthy, but it wasn't in the patch either.

---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 08:05 AM ----------

Uhh ok... same with chaos wave. Everything has to be popped + damage trinkets/tailoring/jade + sacrifice grimoire

Grimoire doesn't enhance chaos wave.

[Moradim]

This is a frostbomb from probally the best pvp geared mage in the world -
~145k with jade spirit, trinket, lvl 90 talent, mage armor. You sure you got hit twice as hard by some random mage in a bg?


Mage burst obviously needs a nerf, (my guess is a nerf to Frost Burn) - so does few other classes, but some of the numbers ppl claims...

200k global on a character with resil, oh, and they still have a frostfire bolt to cast.

seems balanced

[Deleted]

The mages here are either ignorant or don't know how to stack cooldowns. Wait for jadespirit, cloak proc and trinket proc (if you are human which every decent alliance pvp mage is) throw in on use trinket, engineering gloves. That is a shitload of spell power. Throw an incanter's ward (up to 30% spell power) on top of it and you get those numbers. Tried it in duells highest crit was 204k on 62.5% resilience. Also nice were those 42k frost orb ticks

[Darcyn]

The mages here are either ignorant or don't know how to stack cooldowns. Wait for jadespirit, cloak proc and trinket proc (if you are human which every decent alliance pvp mage is) throw in on use trinket, engineering gloves. That is a shitload of spell power. Throw an incanter's ward (up to 30% spell power) on top of it and you get those numbers. Tried it in duells highest crit was 204k on 62.5% resilience. Also nice were those 42k frost orb ticks

Good luck popping on use trinket and snyapse strings in the same moment.

[Myci]

You're both wrong. It was an announced hotfix, so it wasn't stealthy, but it wasn't in the patch either.[COLOR="red"]

---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 08:05 AM ----------

For everyone saying this, it was on live before it was announced for about a day. I was skyping my lock friend as he was figuring thre was about a 30% dmg drop in it. Then it gets announced later. The point is that we just went through this ptr testing and waited how long for changes( warriors) while getting to read patch notes and prepare. Then 2 days after patch they hotfix it ? What was the point... Especially when they dont do the same to warriors and let that fotm go so long. Mages and warriors are still king right now, and imo mages need to be nerfed abit. People saying " it takes time to setup, just dispel frostbomb" are clueless. Dispel frostbomb? jk your teammate not sits a full polly/fear ect. You can try to and dispel it when you know they are going to deep/ burst but most of the time they try to cc the healer when they do . So that 2-3 second window we have to get it before they detonate it is really not that possible.


Also GSac does increase dmg of chaos wave by 30%. http://www.wowhead.com/spell=108503#comments
hand of guldan dmg is increased ( chaos wave in meta)

[Psilar]

I asked a buddy the other day.... "Hey remember when hunters and casters actually had to stop moving to do anything in PvP?"

Yeah...how about those days.

Right now PvP is pretty fucked, and I think this is the main reason. To see every class now, running around like an idiot makes WoW PvP pretty terribad. Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling for nerfs to instants and such because to balance that, it would require massive changes to CC and dispelling. I'm merely pointing our the absurdity.

As for Frost Bomb, It does seem to hit insanely hard. If you have one on you and get hit with deep freeze shortly after, without a dispell or trinket you should probably be dead. The point being, dispellable abilities should hit harder. I am a fan of buffing frostbolt, nerfing frost bomb, and perhaps making it undispellable.

---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 11:05 AM ----------

Make health pools bigger. No more burst.

I agree, with the huge increase in Cata...I was expecting 500k baseline, with tanks up higher. We'll get there by the end of the expac - hopefully resilience stacking can help drop burst down a bit.

[Gangresnake]

This is a frostbomb from probally the best pvp geared mage in the world -http://i.imgur.com/k6MEy.jpg
~145k with jade spirit, trinket, lvl 90 talent, mage armor. You sure you got hit twice as hard by some random mage in a bg?


Mage burst obviously needs a nerf, (my guess is a nerf to Frost Burn) - so does few other classes, but some of the numbers ppl claims...

My mage mate is geared in full resi and hit harder than that

[bigjohnburger]

So, you say that Frost Mages should try to kill opponents just with Frostbolts? Then let Warlocks just cast Shadow Bolts, Priests Mind Blasts etc...
I see people that lack skill to always go to the best and easiest for them solution: "If I can't avoid it it's wrong so remove it or nerf it".
If you can't react/think fast in arena, If you mess the buttons on your keyboard and freeze on your screen screaming " Oh Jesus, wth, this can't be real", just try to practice and become a better player. It is not the Frost Bomb that is overpowered. It is you or your partner that can't react fast.
You can escape/avoid/counterspell/dispell almost every single harmful spell in game. You just need to think ahead and fast. Frostbomb has a cast time, you can see it coming. If you are rooted in a Deep Freeze, Trinket it out. If you are caught in a RoF, then it is your fault you stepped into that or it is your fault or your partners' you let the mage cast a RoF.
Practice makes you better. You don't become better if everyone else is nerfed...

Why is it people who don't know what they're talking about put words into other peoples mouths thinking that will make their argument stronger? He said buff frost bolt not make it the only move they can use.

[Purpleisbetter]

I dunno why it should be treated differently then Devouring Plague, 5xTfB war burst, Chaos waves, chaos bolts... Why should it be different?

[Flaks]

This is a frostbomb from probally the best pvp geared mage in the world -http://i.imgur.com/k6MEy.jpg
~145k with jade spirit, trinket, lvl 90 talent, mage armor. You sure you got hit twice as hard by some random mage in a bg?


Mage burst obviously needs a nerf, (my guess is a nerf to Frost Burn) - so does few other classes, but some of the numbers ppl claims...

A frost bomb is the biggest part of a shatter. A shatter usually includes a few other abilities in it's time. The combined damage in a single ACTUAL GCD usually adds up to more than 200k damage. By the next gcd, that mage is also going to get off an ffb which will itself crit for upwards of 80k. That's more damage in 2 gcds than most classes can do in 5 with all cds popped. And on top of this they have ANOTHER GCD to work with during deep freeze.

---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 06:49 PM ----------

My mage mate is geared in full resi and hit harder than that

Two opponents both in full malevolent gear with t2 weapons will hit each other harder than if they both had full dreadful without a pvp weapon AND had resilience in all of their slots.

PvP power scales (especially for humans with double trinkets) so that by the time someone has full malevolent gear, they'll have ~60% pvp resilience with ~%50 pvp power compared to no pvp gear where there's 40% pvp resilience and no pvp power.

[Highmoon7]

So frost bomb is a 1.5 second cast with a 8 second cd (with haste) and does 140k auto crit. Hmm as a shadow priest I also have a 1.5 second cast with a 8 second cd. It's called mind blast and hits for 33k with a 8% chance to crit for 66k! Balanced.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

I know you already have Living Bomb and that could make the spell too much alike, but I don't see much exits out of this.

Flavour. That's seriously the only reason they haven't changed it to be a DoT. That said, I do like the idea and would love if it was an actual DoT. It'd let our best AOE bomb benefit from the bloody DoT triggered trinket from elegon. I still stand that it could work as a 2 explosion DoT, as you could never get both in a single DF. You could freeze someone at the right time, but that's some skill cap the spec could use. It's also not straight up burst, giving you 3ish seconds to heal it up.

Another solution would be lowering the burst damage and move it into castable spells (maybe also raise the AE coefficient for you PvE AE whores).

But you've still lowered the single target damage, which means the other two bomb spells need to be adjusted, and the other spells in a mage's arsenal need to be juggled to maintain spell priority so you want to keep your bomb up.

But I think that the smartest thing to do, is change glyph of fire blast to: Your Fire Blast ... causes Frost bomb to instantly explode for 70%(made up number, maybe higher maybe lower) of it's normal damage. This would reduce the on-demand burst and make mages choose between burst and lower damage or letting things roll and do more damage over-time, draining more mana from the healer (Something I think PvP should focus on more instead of stupid high burst). I know this would be a big change but I think it would be more balanced.

I like it! That's an actual solution that works. This should be posted to the official forums, as this is an actual solution that I don't see any issues with. The bomb goes off when the target dies, so you just don't take that glyph as frost in PVE unless you're LB spreading. It hurts fire's AOE a bit, but they just got their target limit on their DoT cleave increased by 1, so I don't think it'd be too bad.

You could potentially combine both ideas. The DoT will do half of it's damage at the 1 second mark and 6 second marks. Brain freeze only triggers from the second one. Glyph of fireblast consumes the DoT to do 70% of the total damage remaining.

[Gangresnake]

Two opponents both in full malevolent gear with t2 weapons will hit each other harder than if they both had full dreadful without a pvp weapon AND had resilience in all of their slots.

PvP power scales (especially for humans with double trinkets) so that by the time someone has full malevolent gear, they'll have ~60% pvp resilience with ~%50 pvp power compared to no pvp gear where there's 40% pvp resilience and no pvp power.

I'm aware of that, but the pic implied that it was the damage of Frost bomb available with the best gear available, my mate have the best gear available, with a few weeks late+A heavy resil gemming and hit harder than that, so 145k on FB isnt very representative

[Iso]

Blizzard screwed up having frost rely on bombs for AoE damage in PvE. If anything, buff bolt, nerf bomb, buff blizzard, or make it non channel. Like destro locks have rain of fire.

[Deleted]

My entire point was QQing about it and raging about it HERE is POINTLESS. Write a well thoughtout post, offer solid information, and THEN, if you post it to the right place Blizzard will eventually look at it...

Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

EDIT: YES, I think mages need to be reviewed, BUT, tantrums dont accomplish that.

I agree, but thats the purpose of MMO forums. I agree though that we are talking about Chaos wave dmg, but its hard to stay on topic when warlocks seem to be targeted as nerf targets whereas other classes probably have abilities that are more op. Still gonna play demo though, cause even if i do shit dmg my fegaurd will still rape

[Deleted]

But I think that the smartest thing to do, is change glyph of fire blast to: Your Fire Blast ... causes Frost bomb to instantly explode for 70%(made up number, maybe higher maybe lower) of it's normal damage. This would reduce the on-demand burst and make mages choose between burst and lower damage or letting things roll and do more damage over-time, draining more mana from the healer (Something I think PvP should focus on more instead of stupid high burst). I know this would be a big change but I think it would be more balanced.

Looks like they went for something like that. Allthough they decided for a 50% nerf to Frostbomb if detonated prematurely.