1. #1

    A lot of points to check - Wall of Text

    What I dislike about WoW:

    Personal information:
    Been playing since World of Wacraft was launched. I have over 450 days played on 1 character (Vaelorian) and some additional time on other characters. You could say that I have played a lot. I am unsure if you could check, but if you could, you could see that I have played less and less over the last few years. I started playing World of Warcraft when I was 25/26 and I am now 33/34. So sure I have changed. Perhaps this isn't the game for me anymore. But I don't buy that, since Blizzard said that this game is more catered towards the casual player. I am now a casual player and I don't really see what Blizzard means.

    I know:
    •I have other priorities in my life then I did before
    •My taste in games has changed a little due to the above (be it forced)
    •I am perhaps more critical due to experiencing such a fine product as World of Warcraft (as it was) and a few other games
    World of Warcraft has strafed from my personal level of enjoyment for a long time. Gradually making the game less enjoying.

    What World of Warcraft had going for itself was the lore that was made before the MMO came along. The lore lasted until about Wrath of the Lich King in terms of a feeling of being immersed in a storyline. Cataclysm was also part of the lore due to Deathwing and other (again resurrected Onyxia, Nefarian and Ragnaros) characters, but far less. Cataclysm was underwhelming as a whole. I loved Cataclysm and the road to Cataclysm until the end of tier 11. I loved the harder dungeons (until the nerfs...). I played a bit until tier 12 then quit and came back later to experience tier 13. The last 2 tiers of that expansion felt empty. It became a game that was no longer epic. For me there was nothing to do. Heroics (5 man) felt like a complete waste of time as opposed to "Vanilla, TBC and WotLK". Yes WotLK dungeons were easy but I could atleast have fun with those without any healers or tanks. Cataclysm sorta ruined my "offraid-time experience". I am not a grinder of materials, daily farmer or pvp-player. I am a dungeoncreeper if you will. I love to play with 5/10/20/25/40 people vs "artificial intelligence". PvP I enjoy rarely. If I do, it is with other people from my own guild or server. I will tackle this further in my post about CRZ etc.

    About the lore. I read a lot of WoW comics and books if not all. So apart from not buying your cardgame or boardgame, I am pretty immersed in WoW and know a lot about the storylines. My hopes for any future expansions would be that we take this war on Azeroth to other planets/realms such as Outland was handled before, but then more close to the Titans/Sargaras. Since there really isn't much lore around anymore apart from vague stories, this is something you should dive in.

    Cross Realm Zones and anything cross realm related (LFR/LFD/PVP):
    You made a budget mistake from my point of view. These cross realm things look like a nice solution but aren't.

    Positives:
    •full zones again like it was in Vanilla
    •more people to play with on the subject you want to play = shorter queues
    This is really what it is all about, good that you tried to fix it.

    What you should have done (and I rarely see this in any forum posts) is MERGE SERVERS. I mean sure you come across a few bumps on the road. But really, if banks can merge (with everchanging flow of money) and move their clients from one holding to another with a different system, then you could too. To be honest it should be simpler even. The only thing that would affect a client in a bad way, could be that their name is not available on the new server. Big bummer but my guess is that people rather would have a more pleasurable game to play then to hold onto a name. To make the transfer more smooth, you could freeze an X number of accounts at a time for a day (concerning players couldn't play that day) from a specific server. Also to make the impact on ranks and progress less; merge servers with a new server or server that is almost completely empty without any real progress guilds (compare rank). You only need to have this new server available once. Cause after the transfers of account, you got perhaps 2/3 empty servers again.

    Suggestion:
    •freeze a number of accounts (players couldn't play) for the day of transfer
    •these players are preferrably all from the same guild
    •Blizzard should investigate what rank the guild has and should transfer all guilds that are above rank X at the same time to avoid progress penalties for transferring guilds
    •give some form of reward to the transferring account (playtime?) for the inconvenience
    But no, instead of merging servers you said that it was not possible at this time. I cannot believe that for one second. It might be more expensive for the compagny, but CRZ and other functionalities you made are basically an insult. Why? It has been said many times in different posts on the forums. I am positive you have read them.


    Unaccountability.
    How many threads have we seen about the community being bad? Have you seen these posts when CRZ and its other features were not available yet? I haven't. I have played League of Legends for a while and was shocked at the level of immaturity there. I was so happy that in my (at that time) favourite game WoW it wasn't the case. No longer... If you merged servers as your clients have been screaming, you wouldn't have this issue. But you would have all the benefits.
    •Recruitment.
    You cannot recruit properly. A lot of players don't want to transfer servers (pay money for it or lose their friends). Don't say that RealID solves this for all players. Some players feel attached to a server and want to see their friends instead of chat. They value that. So as a recruitment-officer, the people you play with are mostly a waste of time to speak to. Sure it is not impossible to get recruits from another server, but it is far less likely. Talking to people ingame isn't the only way to recruit ofcourse. But for me it was the most succesful. Having an empty server makes this less and less easy obviously. But having "fake" people roaming around doesn't make it easier.
    •Economy.
    I don't particularly bother with this, but I can see fuller servers having an impact via CRZ on a emptier server by grinding "their" nodes. Increasing spawnrate won't particularly make this better for emptier servers, but it will affect the fuller servers due to a bigger supply.
    •Sitting in the city.
    Then we have the "sitting in the city and never leaving" culture we got going on. Sure we have dailies now to do... wooptidoo. But we can still queue up and instantly teleport to a dungeon we haven't even visited. I am not saying we should bring back the requirement to first visit the particular dungeon. I am saying to remove the feature of teleporting to the dungeon. More people travelling is better. It would improve worldpvp a bit (the chances would be higher to encounter stuff like this). Perhaps only make the random dungeon queue an instant teleport but when done, you would be outside the dungeon instead of back in the city. And specific dungeons would require you to fly. Would it be annoying? Sure since we are all used to being teleported. But the immersion would be higher.

    I can name more, but most of it falls into the catagory of "Unaccountability". If people were from the same server they would be branded as a bad person and no one would play with them until they changed their name and changed their immature ways. The repercussions were enormous beforehand. Now there are next to no repercussions. Even if you could ignore crossrealm players, that would not change those players. They won't feel the pinch. They would go on griefing as always and wouldn't even know they were on someones ignorelist. Reporting them (if this feature becomes viable/available) won't make a difference much either. If they were on their own server, they wouldn't do this or just once....

    So merging servers would solve LOADS without drawbacks apart from perhaps 1 day of no play, the namechanging and losing a few points towards worldrank due to this one day of no play.

    The issue of dailies.
    Many people have complained about dailies on the forum. I too am not in favour of having items that, let's face it, everyone wants (before LFR/normal raids). What was wrong with the way it was before? You had saved up valor, went to a vendor and bought the stuff. If anything you could UP the price of those items or decrease the amount of valor you get per run. As I said before, I love dungeoncreeping. Repeating those dungeons always gives me a new experience (new players = new experience). Doing the same quest over and over and over again, is really annoying. But most annoying is that because I don't play everyday, I cannot do dailies everyday and for me it would take longer then people who can play everyday. This is even the case when I could play 12 hours on saturday vs a guy who can play 1 hour each day. Who puts the more effort in timewise? So in other words, the game has taken a stance that you need to log in everyday to get the items you want. Eventually if I did do the dailies, I could have the items that I wanted. But really by then I would have full raidgear from LFR or other sources. So in other words, I wouldn't need them if I continue to do LFR. Which is fine. The question does arise then... Why are these items in the game then anyway? These items seem to cater to the player that can log on daily. Cause if you cannot log in daily but could still play a good amount of time (one day a week 12 hours) you couldn't go for this gear. By the time it would be available, it wouldn't matter anymore. The other issue I have is the way I could gain reputation. In expansions before, I could just run heroics to my hearts content. In TBC you got corresponding reputation according to what dungeon you were doing. Which was fine. Then came the tabards, which were fine aswell. Why has this feature been removed. It worked well for every party. Hardcore players could run it to infinity and beyond, could be exalted in no time (which is was they wanted). Casual players could just rep. up at their own pace without being forced (yes forced, you know what I mean) to log on everyday. And you could focus your attention on that particular reputation.This changed with the daily gating. You can only do so many dailies a day. And then you have to wait for the reset.

    Now I am not saying that dailies are bad. I think there are a lot of people who like doing dailies. Repetition is good for some people and they might enjoy it. But why gate gear behind it? Mounts/pets/recipees are ok to be gated that way, but only if for example the enchants-recipees are ALL covered by ONE faction. Not spread around on different factions. So people who have a specific profession can just do dailies on that particular faction and be done (unless they want all reputation on exalted). Actually why is gear spread around aswell? If you don't want to change the daily system, atleast make it so that all plate users can go to faction X and all leather users go to faction Y etc. At that rate I would actually have the will do perhaps log in a bit more or atleast know that if I put X amount of time in it, I would still get a pretty good benefit before I get LFR gear.

    Slowing the progressionladder is not an argument. I see this posted as a counterargument every other post. Which is pretty much nonsense. If you can progress without this gear, it is not really slowing you down is it? It is only marginally better then heroic gear, so what is the problem? Either don't have it available at all, or make it available like it used to be.

    LFR lootsystem:
    I did a LFR the other day. Ofcourse as a former hardcore raider I despised it. This is not raiding, the bosses are targetdummies. But the lootsystem really cracked me up. Not only do I get duplicate gear (which I can shard, so it is not a total loss), I got an offhand that is meant for priests/druids! I am a shield-offhand user. As a paladin I have no use for other offhands then a shield. Sure I could use it. But why would I? So I sharded it. I also feel horrid everytime something like this happens. My item could have benefitted someone else. Yet I cannot trade such an item. Why has the trade function been removed?

    Idea:
    •I loot an offhand that is not a shield or a duplicate item that I already have or a better version
    •I trade another player of the raid this type of loot - the player can't trade me gold so all is well
    loot should still be anonymous else you get begging/threatening messages
    So how is this bad? Before you had /rolls and you could need or greed. Discussions would arise that way. Since that is out of the way now, why not allow trade? Guilds could not make bad use of this right? Sure they would trade their items perhaps between eachother but who cares? There is still only 1 player who without needing or greeding got an item. So all is fair imo.

    This lootsystem should also be implemented to regular dungeons and then only for the spec you have learned. You learn 2 specs so if you have a 3rd4th available, you won't get loot for it until you remove another spec - as a paladin I don't have a tankspec learned - so I won't get tankloot until I learn that spec in favour of another.

    25 mans and 10 mans:
    I was GM of my own guild before tier 12. We were a succesful 25 man guild for about 5/6 years. We had our issues ofcourse, but it became harder and harder and harder to recruit people for 25 mans. You cannot possibly come and say that I didn't do enough effort. I took holidays, went home early, called in sick and neglected my real life in order to have recruits. I went through every popular website - bumped my posts an insane amount everyday to stay on the top page while at work. I browsed official, non official recruitmentforums and realmforums to check potential recruits. Went to talk to them on their realms or e-mailing them. All this while managing my guild. But 10 mans were massively more popular then 25 mans. People who would under other circumstances try a 25 man raidingguild, would now rather stay with the select friends they had in their own small guild then hop over. A lot of these potentially good players just weren't about to leave their friends even if they were bad at the game. And who could blame them? If Blizzard makes it viable to raid with a small group of your real friends, wouldn't you stay with them? Instead of going in a boat with 24 total strangers and try to bond a bit? Now I personally back when I was hardcore, would rather go with a good bunch of people that I could become friends with, then stay with my friends that suck. The frustration would be too much for me. But now that I am casual, I would def. stay with my friends. Other then that, everyone and their mom suddenly made a guild. So the playerpool became spread too thin.

    This is perhaps a good thing for people. But to 25 mans it is def. not a good thing. So please, just cut the crap and just disable the 25 man raids. They seem to have lost their place in WoW just as 40 man raids did. And do not try to deny it. Also upgrading a 10 man guild to a 25 man guild is almost not doable. How would you go about this? You cannot ask a potential recruit for the 25 man section to just not raid until we have enough players (rotating isn't an option really either)? And what do these extra players do while you recruit? The only viable way is to make a list of people who would come over to your guild as soon as you have the right amount for the guild. And when it is that time, how many recruits of that list are still interested? You can easily scratch 50%. And then those that said that they will come over, will now have serious issues trusting you to get those recruits that we now lack. Merging with another guild would be an option if you sort out the leadership well. Else it will smack you in the face.

    Transmog:
    I must say that I wanted this feature since 4ever. Perhaps with the addition to COLOUR your own sets. Hell I would pay real cash to be able to do this. I love it to bits. Sadly you Blizzard made a few mistakes. I have a legendary item that I worked very hard for with the guild. It stands as a symbol of accomplishments for our guild. I don't particularly see the point in Blizzards view that everyone and their grandma will walk around with legendary skins. I bet this would be true for the first few weeks. After that everyone will get bored. So why not include them in the transmog? Also the main hand/one hand issues (note I didn't say offhand). I am sure this is due to the skins. Seems weird to me. Blizzard has had ample time to fix every issue in that catagory. So they could fix this too. Then we have the vanilla pvpgear and whatnot. Just make it available guys. You're annoying more people then you are pleasing by witholding these items from everyone. Availability is good.

    Promises:
    Afaik Blizzard promised a lot and delivered a lot of comprises. To name one: itemlevels and pvpgear. People complained (rightly so) that they were sick of seeing people with pvpgear queuing for LFR. So Blizzard said that they would fix that with a lower itemlevel or somesuch. So yes they did make the itemlevel lower. It became 450 for an itemlevel. Which still enables people to use PvP gear to go into LFR. Sure those peoples characters aren't entirely made up of PvP gear anymore but a few pieces here and there and voila, you can queue for LFR. Not to mention heroic 5 man. Now I don't remember Blizzard saying anything about these. But isn't it obvious that PvPgear should only be used in PvP enviroments? You can still make a fresh level 90 and instantly get him 450 gear by going to the AH. Instantly queue for heroic 5 mans. Where is the learning process? And then I am not even talking about how loot is used by people to upgrade their itemlevels. Some guilds even have crafted Epic BoE gear specifically put in their guildbank for guildies to cheat themselves into LFR so they can gear up quicker. As long as it is in their bags they can get away with murder....

    Now by the time of this posting some of this could have already been fixed. But I won't hold my breath. I also want to say that I still even after my rant and believe me I got more, still love playing WoW. It might not seem so but I do. I've played it for so long and still love the players in my group. So I continue my quest. But things would have been a whole lot better if they just MERGED SERVERS. Doing that solves A LOT. In the beginning a lot of people will most likely won't like it or atleast complain about it. But what about new players? New players will find FULL and balanced servers. While the old guys will get used to having a good full server again. LFR/LFD can be serverwide again instead of crossrealm/server. Everything will be as it once was and the community-feeling will grow again.

  2. #2
    "I can't believe I read the whole thing."

    Seriously though, we have a lot in common, in terms of playing history, being the GM of a raiding guild, recruitment issues and RL background/conflicts, and I've been struggling with my attraction to the game lately as well. +1 for wanting to open up the transmog floodgates (I really, really, really want to xmog the level 60 paladin PVP set and be a legit Blood Knight, but that's impossible for now).

    The state of dailies (and amount of them) in MoP is absolutely horrible, and I find myself struggling to hit my VP cap weekly as a casual player these days. I do, however, find the current tier (with the exception of MV, although Spirit Kings is neat) pretty exciting in terms of boss mechanics and fight style, even if I've just done it on LFR thus far.

    I'm of the belief that Cata marked a decided shift in the mindset of Blizzard in how they're going to treat the game going forward, and if the next expansion continues the trend, I'm not so sure if I'll want to stick around for it. It's a tough call.

  3. #3
    Yeah it is a big wall. I posted this to my guildies first. Most of them agree with what I wrote with the exception that they love the instant teleports to the dungeons. Which I like too but I was viewing that angle as something thats for the good of the game in the long run. Perhaps I am wrong.

    Thanks for your reply Vindican. Funny that you are walking around with Hand of A'dal. Which I what I have done until recently. Most other titles can be obtained so easily and without effort.
    Last edited by Vaelorian; 2012-12-06 at 03:54 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    No one has an opinion? Or is it a dead horse?
    I think you managed to hit every overly beaten dead horse on these forums, in a single post no less. Good job on efficiency, but most people have already made their points on these and you didn't really bring anything new to the table.
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    If your guild demands you slip into an elephants butt and force yourself out in a regurgation then you can't blame Blizzard for supplying the elephant.

  5. #5
    Well you are right. I haven't read these forums much lately. Usually only official wowforums. Yes there are a lot of points that may look the same. Hell a lot of points probably are very much the same. But almost no one looks at those points and blames Blizzard for not merging servers. Everyone seems to have jumped on the whole CRZ business (LFR/LFD etc) and just complains about that and how to improve that. I am here simply to say that if they did merge servers, all of these issues would be non existant. I haven't seen any posts about that at all. I have seen posts that suggest to merge servers - but ever since blizzard sorta grew over that by using CRZ and people accepting it.... it seems we are just making more problems ...

  6. #6
    Fluffy Kitten Callei's Avatar
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    The only thing I have much to offer input on is the LFR loot system, since everything else is just a difference in opinion. The idea behind the new system is to remove loot drama that caused a good number of Dragon Soul groups to fall apart when Heroic raiders would queue with a guildie's alt (or a new recruit they're gearing up), spam-need an item, and trade it to the guildie who needed that item, in essence stacking the deck and giving that guildie multiple chances at that piece of loot that the rest of the raid didn't have. Now, you aren't rolling against someone else for one instance of an item; the system checks to see if any of the boss items are flagged for your class, what if any items are flagged for your spec and rolls to see if you won anything, and if so, what you won that fits your spec. It doesn't check to see if you have it already outside Unique-tagged items just like the old system didn't check to see if you had something before letting you roll on it (again, unless it's Unique and you have it already).

    I personally like the new system more than old, because I'd much rather deal with vendoring the occasional duplicate than see a weapon that's wonderful for me, only to lose it to seven people from Guild X Needing on it so they can give it to Dude McDudeson their guildie while they're rocking full H25 gear (or close to it).

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    The only thing I have much to offer input on is the LFR loot system, since everything else is just a difference in opinion. The idea behind the new system is to remove loot drama that caused a good number of Dragon Soul groups to fall apart when Heroic raiders would queue with a guildie's alt (or a new recruit they're gearing up), spam-need an item, and trade it to the guildie who needed that item, in essence stacking the deck and giving that guildie multiple chances at that piece of loot that the rest of the raid didn't have. Now, you aren't rolling against someone else for one instance of an item; the system checks to see if any of the boss items are flagged for your class, what if any items are flagged for your spec and rolls to see if you won anything, and if so, what you won that fits your spec. It doesn't check to see if you have it already outside Unique-tagged items just like the old system didn't check to see if you had something before letting you roll on it (again, unless it's Unique and you have it already).

    I personally like the new system more than old, because I'd much rather deal with vendoring the occasional duplicate than see a weapon that's wonderful for me, only to lose it to seven people from Guild X Needing on it so they can give it to Dude McDudeson their guildie while they're rocking full H25 gear (or close to it).
    Oh totally better system then it used to be. And I know that lets say 10 people from the same guild are in that very same LFR and 9 don't need loot at all apart from that one person - perhaps the system I propose can be abused. Still how is that affecting anyone else in that raid? Who cares if a guild decides to gear up a new recruit or a new main that way? No one else loses loot. Everyone wins imo.

    So sure I am for the current system if they tweak it a lot.

  8. #8
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Hm..you know? I read the whole thing and when I came to "The issue of dailies. ... What was wrong with the way it was before? " it struck me that you just don't care about the reasoning that game designers have already given several times, why reputation gain through dailies is designed as it is.

    Answers from the blues are available to many points. The bluetracker constantly keeps you informed. Fair enough - maybe you only want opinions from the players. In the case of dailies, let me tell you: I love them. Recently got the "10 000 daily quests completed" achievement. To me I disliked the system where rep only came from dungeons. I had to stomach that for 7 years. I hated that it never came from raids. How stupid is that? In TBC I got rep for killing Nagas in the 5 mans, but when I killed nagas in the raids (MUCH HARDER) I got no rep. How stupid.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  9. #9
    Find it strange that having done 'a' (which implies you did it once) LFR you got duplicate loot.
    Find it strange you say 'What you should have done (and I rarely see this in any forum posts) is MERGE SERVERS. ' when I see that so often in forums.

    Otherwise, maybe post it in WoW forum as this is actually MMO and it is more likely to be noticed in WoW where they ask for feedback

  10. #10
    Pit Lord velde046's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    What I dislike about WoW:

    •Sitting in the city.
    Then we have the "sitting in the city and never leaving" culture we got going on. Sure we have dailies now to do... wooptidoo. But we can still queue up and instantly teleport to a dungeon we haven't even visited. I am not saying we should bring back the requirement to first visit the particular dungeon. I am saying to remove the feature of teleporting to the dungeon. More people travelling is better. It would improve worldpvp a bit (the chances would be higher to encounter stuff like this). Perhaps only make the random dungeon queue an instant teleport but when done, you would be outside the dungeon instead of back in the city. And specific dungeons would require you to fly. Would it be annoying? Sure since we are all used to being teleported. But the immersion would be higher.
    I would not care for it really, not because I'm lazy but just because it adds nothing to my experience really, I don't PVP so that is no reason for me and besides that it would be just a waste of time flying around to get to the instance. Oh and then getting back to the situation where only 1 or 2 are actually flying (usually one of them being me while the rest wants a summon. No thanks. Too much immersion for me then. I like this system. ANd neing at the entrance after gfinishing has no use either, since it only takes the use of the hearthstone to get back to where you want....

    Now I am not saying that dailies are bad. I think there are a lot of people who like doing dailies. Repetition is good for some people and they might enjoy it. But why gate gear behind it? Mounts/pets/recipees are ok to be gated that way, but only if for example the enchants-recipees are ALL covered by ONE faction. Not spread around on different factions. So people who have a specific profession can just do dailies on that particular faction and be done (unless they want all reputation on exalted). Actually why is gear spread around aswell? If you don't want to change the daily system, atleast make it so that all plate users can go to faction X and all leather users go to faction Y etc. At that rate I would actually have the will do perhaps log in a bit more or atleast know that if I put X amount of time in it, I would still get a pretty good benefit before I get LFR gear.
    It's not like you have to wear yourself out with the dailies, yes they might when you try to do them all, but you can get some of the good items at honored which hardly takes any time, so I don't feel it's that bad really.

    LFR lootsystem:
    I did a LFR the other day. Ofcourse as a former hardcore raider I despised it. This is not raiding, the bosses are targetdummies. But the lootsystem really cracked me up. Not only do I get duplicate gear (which I can shard, so it is not a total loss), I got an offhand that is meant for priests/druids! I am a shield-offhand user. As a paladin I have no use for other offhands then a shield. Sure I could use it. But why would I? So I sharded it. I also feel horrid everytime something like this happens. My item could have benefitted someone else. Yet I cannot trade such an item. Why has the trade function been removed?
    I think in the back of your minnd you're still seeing the loot as boss drops, but they are not. Everybody has the same chance of winning an item. THe boss has no maximum or minimum amount of loot he hands out. So it's just you getting lucky or not, you don't have to feel for others. And besides, I like the fact you can't trade the stuff anymore. Just hated those sharks that tried ripping of people with items they would Need on, but couldn;t use and then sold for sometimes ridiculous amounts of gold. Nah, there's no more bitcvhing and whining now, which is great. Also no more waiting for loot to be assigned, great. I know you suggest to not being able trade gold, but that won't work. MIght even make situation worse where people demand gold first in a trade and then promise to trade in a second trade for the item.... SOme people would rip off others.... you can count on that.

    Oh and about the PVP gear, I don't see the problem really and I don't really see an argument as to why PVP should not be viable in the PVE environment... THey have stats that are pretty decent, it's not like it's a real loss?

  11. #11
    The big issue with merging servers could be found recently with Bioware's handling of the SWTOR server merges. Even though a fair amount of SWTOR players were WoW players looking for something different, I can't imagine the blowback something like that would cause among the WoW playerbase.

    Personally, I was more a fan of a blend of the TBC model, with limited attunements for raids (nothing quite like the scale of Classic Onyxia attunement, or Karazhan, though), and dailies to provide some non-essential reps with either instance-based or worn-tabard rep grinding. It gives more choice to the players in regard to being able to cram a bunch in when they had time to play, as opposed to arbitrarily gating rep gains based on X amount of available dailies per day (which can be considered as "lost" rep if someone wasn't able to play that day, whereas they could "catch up" by grinding rep out later when they were available).

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by velde046 View Post
    I think in the back of your minnd you're still seeing the loot as boss drops, but they are not. Everybody has the same chance of winning an item. THe boss has no maximum or minimum amount of loot he hands out. So it's just you getting lucky or not, you don't have to feel for others. And besides, I like the fact you can't trade the stuff anymore. Just hated those sharks that tried ripping of people with items they would Need on, but couldn;t use and then sold for sometimes ridiculous amounts of gold. Nah, there's no more bitcvhing and whining now, which is great. Also no more waiting for loot to be assigned, great. I know you suggest to not being able trade gold, but that won't work. MIght even make situation worse where people demand gold first in a trade and then promise to trade in a second trade for the item.... SOme people would rip off others.... you can count on that.

    Oh and about the PVP gear, I don't see the problem really and I don't really see an argument as to why PVP should not be viable in the PVE environment... THey have stats that are pretty decent, it's not like it's a real loss?
    You are right I do see the boss with a set amount of loot. And I know its not true anymore. But as long as I get loot that I wouldn't need, I feel bad. So either they should fix the way loot is being given by only letting me get loot required for my trained SPECS (=2x) or if it continues like it is now - give me the ability to be nice to my fellow players. No one knows if I won an weird item or not, so I can ask people if they want X from me. Voila niceness can be spread around.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Cataclysm was underwhelming as a whole. I loved Cataclysm and the road to Cataclysm until the end of tier 11.
    One of the few.

    I loved the harder dungeons (until the nerfs...).
    I didn't. I didn't mind the difficulty. I minded that difficulty appeared to be synomym for "it takes longer to kill". Blizzard made things difficulty by addinf in a lot of trash, and made that trash take a long time to die without actually making it enough of a challenge to actually be fun. There were aspects that showed how good thsoe dungeons could have been, such as with the increased emphasis on CC, but overall (and this is a personal opinion) they just didn't gel for me.

    For me there was nothing to do.
    Cata in a nutshell.

    Cross Realm Zones and anything cross realm related (LFR/LFD/PVP):
    You made a budget mistake from my point of view. These cross realm things look like a nice solution but aren't.
    Business wise - it makes sense. Merging servers is too often seen as a sign the game is dying, even when it is just doing what every good business should. And it would lead to a loss of subs as a result of that disruption. Further, CRZ tech has a lot of potential in what can be done (eventually) with the tech. Blizzards implementation of the technology to date has been imperfectly implemented but CRZ technology will, I think, have a huge impact on how the game develops. It would (or should) allow home servers to be de-emphasised and may eventually allow for the rapid creation and setup of virtual realms with players balanced according to faction, level and PvP/PvE preference.

    That's not to underrate the problems Blizzard and players have had, but overall CRZ tech is something that will likely have a huge and beneficial impact on the game.

    Unaccountability.
    How many threads have we seen about the community being bad? Have you seen these posts when CRZ and its other features were not available yet? I haven't. I have played League of Legends for a while and was shocked at the level of immaturity there. I was so happy that in my (at that time) favourite game WoW it wasn't the case. No longer... If you merged servers as your clients have been screaming, you wouldn't have this issue. But you would have all the benefits.
    Seriously? Really...seriously? Complaints about the community going "bad" go back years.

    •Recruitment.
    You cannot recruit properly.
    A major downside of a low pop server. I'd like to see CRZ guilds open up so guildss can take advantage of the expanded population.

    •Sitting in the city.
    Then we have the "sitting in the city and never leaving" culture we got going on. Sure we have dailies now to do... wooptidoo. But we can still queue up and instantly teleport to a dungeon we haven't even visited. I am not saying we should bring back the requirement to first visit the particular dungeon. I am saying to remove the feature of teleporting to the dungeon. More people travelling is better. It would improve worldpvp a bit (the chances would be higher to encounter stuff like this). Perhaps only make the random dungeon queue an instant teleport but when done, you would be outside the dungeon instead of back in the city. And specific dungeons would require you to fly. Would it be annoying? Sure since we are all used to being teleported. But the immersion would be higher.
    And it would never work. The teleport is necessary because players WON'T go the dungeon, they won't wait for a RNG group, it'd be too easy to troll the system, you'll simply have players wait for someone else to arrange a port and so on. All those nice little aspects that we saw in Vanilla and TBC.


    I can name more, but most of it falls into the catagory of "Unaccountability". If people were from the same server they would be branded as a bad person and no one would play with them until they changed their name and changed their immature ways. The repercussions were enormous beforehand. Now there are next to no repercussions. Even if you could ignore crossrealm players, that would not change those players. They won't feel the pinch. They would go on griefing as always and wouldn't even know they were on someones ignorelist. Reporting them (if this feature becomes viable/available) won't make a difference much either. If they were on their own server, they wouldn't do this or just once....
    I seem to recall a fair number of jerks and trolls and so on during my runs in Vanilla. Strangely enough, I don't recall any great increase recently and indeed, I've been in many runs with great groups. At the same time, yes, there are a great many jerks in this game. But there always have been. The question is what to do with them.


    The issue of dailies.
    Many people have complained about dailies on the forum. I too am not in favour of having items that, let's face it, everyone wants (before LFR/normal raids). What was wrong with the way it was before? You had saved up valor, went to a vendor and bought the stuff. If anything you could UP the price of those items or decrease the amount of valor you get per run.
    The VP reward is already arguably too low. Players want their VP cap every week, but the rewards are set at a level where players aren't really caring about any one particular run. The VP rewards being rep locked made rep gain something nice and made gaining rep soemthing for players to do.

    The problem is that it also turned the rep gain into a mandatory aspect of the game for too many, turning what should have been fun content into a daily chore. What also makes things worse is that there isn't any need for it You spend 5 weeks getting the VP to buy the gear from vendors which will take 5 weks to get rep with.

    Blizzard goofed here. Technically, they are right in that the grind isn't mandatory or necessary. However, the same can be said for other aspects of the game which ARE seen as necessary and mandatory, and for the same reasons these dailies are.

    LFR lootsystem:
    I did a LFR the other day. Ofcourse as a former hardcore raider I despised it. This is not raiding, the bosses are targetdummies.
    If you know what you are doing....if you are in a coordinated group....yes. Truthfully? A lot of LFR groups don't appear to be at that level.

    But the lootsystem really cracked me up. Not only do I get duplicate gear (which I can shard, so it is not a total loss), I got an offhand that is meant for priests/druids! I am a shield-offhand user. As a paladin I have no use for other offhands then a shield. Sure I could use it. But why would I?
    Because you CAN use it. No - it isn't optimal. No - it isn't ideal. No - it doesn't fit in with the Paladin standard of a shield. But you CAN use it. And for many Paladins, aesthetics aside, it would still be an upgrade.

    So I sharded it. I also feel horrid everytime something like this happens. My item could have benefitted someone else. Yet I cannot trade such an item. Why has the trade function been removed?
    To prevent players trading gear and to stop the abuses that came along with that functionality. I don't like it myself, I'd like to be able to trade the items and with the current system I woulgn't be affecting anyone else's odds but I can see why they felt it necessary.

    This lootsystem should also be implemented to regular dungeons and then only for the spec you have learned.
    So - you'd prefer players to be undergeared and kicked when learning a new role?

    25 mans and 10 mans:
    You cannot possibly come and say that I didn't do enough effort. I took holidays, went home early, called in sick and neglected my real life in order to have recruits.
    Risking unemployment and subsequent homelessness for a game. That's dedication for you.

    People who would under other circumstances try a 25 man raidingguild, would now rather stay with the select friends they had in their own small guild then hop over. A lot of these potentially good players just weren't about to leave their friends even if they were bad at the game. And who could blame them?
    You'd be surprised.

    Transmog:
    I must say that I wanted this feature since 4ever. Perhaps with the addition to COLOUR your own sets. Hell I would pay real cash to be able to do this. I love it to bits. Sadly you Blizzard made a few mistakes. I have a legendary item that I worked very hard for with the guild. It stands as a symbol of accomplishments for our guild. I don't particularly see the point in Blizzards view that everyone and their grandma will walk around with legendary skins. I bet this would be true for the first few weeks. After that everyone will get bored. So why not include them in the transmog?
    Because everyone would walk around with them. Personally, I agree. Transmog restrictions are too tight. And we definitely need some way to alter the coloration.

    IF Blizzard are afraid that players will walk around with Legendary transmg, then I'd prefer they simply state Legendary transmogs require an item obtained through a: a game at Darkmoon Faire b: a difficult quest c: via the BMAH and then tune the system so that the acquistion rate was low.

    Availability is good.
    In some cases. Vanilla PvP gear had to be earned with blood, sweat and tears. I'm undecided whether making it available to everyone is worth the loss of it being special. The fact this only affect few isn't really a consideration.

    Promises:
    Afaik Blizzard promised a lot and delivered a lot of comprises. To name one: itemlevels and pvpgear. People complained (rightly so) that they were sick of seeing people with pvpgear queuing for LFR. So Blizzard said that they would fix that with a lower itemlevel or somesuch. So yes they did make the itemlevel lower. It became 450 for an itemlevel. Which still enables people to use PvP gear to go into LFR.
    And if the gear is as good as PvE iLevel 450, whats the issue? That it has a PvP tag?

    But isn't it obvious that PvPgear should only be used in PvP enviroments?
    No, it isn't. Personally I disagree with the entire notion of PvP gear but the question here is...how much of a disadvantage is PvP gear in the dungeons? Is it as good as or better than the 435 gear you would need to enter the dungeons?

    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Hm..you know? I read the whole thing and when I came to "The issue of dailies. ... What was wrong with the way it was before? " it struck me that you just don't care about the reasoning that game designers have already given several times, why reputation gain through dailies is designed as it is.
    Rep gain through dailies is a good thing.

    ONLY getting rep gain through dailies? Bad.
    Locking VP gear behind rep? Bad.

    Not everyone likes dailies, so alternate paths to acquire rep, charms, etc would have been beneficial. The odd dungeon/boss/MoB drop, or repeatable quest, or the ability to grind mobs, or a daily dungeon quest. There is some already there, but not really enough to be a viable option. And the VP gating was discussed above.

    EJL
    Last edited by Talen; 2012-12-06 at 11:07 PM.

  14. #14
    [/COLOR]
    Quote Originally Posted by Saffa View Post
    Find it strange that having done 'a' (which implies you did it once) LFR you got duplicate loot.
    Find it strange you say 'What you should have done (and I rarely see this in any forum posts) is MERGE SERVERS. ' when I see that so often in forums.

    Otherwise, maybe post it in WoW forum as this is actually MMO and it is more likely to be noticed in WoW where they ask for feedback
    I think I already explained what is so special about my post towards merging servers. It has been posted before on these servers, but ever since the blues said that this was not an option, everyone seems to have forgotten about it and helps with bandaging the flaws CRZ and stuff make happen.

    I think we should take a stand on the merging.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 09:47 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Hm..you know? I read the whole thing and when I came to "The issue of dailies. ... What was wrong with the way it was before? " it struck me that you just don't care about the reasoning that game designers have already given several times, why reputation gain through dailies is designed as it is.

    Answers from the blues are available to many points. The bluetracker constantly keeps you informed. Fair enough - maybe you only want opinions from the players. In the case of dailies, let me tell you: I love them. Recently got the "10 000 daily quests completed" achievement. To me I disliked the system where rep only came from dungeons. I had to stomach that for 7 years. I hated that it never came from raids. How stupid is that? In TBC I got rep for killing Nagas in the 5 mans, but when I killed nagas in the raids (MUCH HARDER) I got no rep. How stupid.
    I understand you like dailies. And tbh there is nothing much wrong with dailies. The beef I have with dailies is that you have to log on daily to do them to gain your daily reputation. If they would only make this a weekly venture, I would not complain at all. Atleast not when there would also be other ways to gain reputation. Like I believe I said: I can only play one day a week. So how can I gain proper rep? And yes I know the answer is: slow, very slow. Thats with current stuff. What I want is for them to change this to a weekly earning/cap. How they would go about this? Well there is this dungeon thing, usually this dungeon is in the same territory as the reputation faction that you need. So going back to a TBC system would be nice. Or other ways. Hell from where I am standing the dailies could be superior towards how fast a player can get reputation or even gold. I am sure Blizzard could come up with a system where I could gain reputation without having to log in every day.
    Last edited by Vaelorian; 2012-12-07 at 08:41 AM.

  15. #15
    As someone who's been playing since classic, the concept of even more quests, and being required to do them, eventually boils down to feeling like you're always leveling. Sure, you're at level cap, but you end up doing 35+ quests each night in order to maximize rep gains.

    I don't know about you guys, but after all these years, I have to be in a weird particular mindset to be able to stand leveling/quests. It was like pulling teeth for me to get to 90 (and that may have something to do with me just plain starting to get tired of the game/playing situation I was in), and the thought of MORE QUESTS OMG SO MANY QUESTS isn't enticing at all.

    I was in one of those mindsets last week, and tore through Klaxxi, Golden Lotus, Cloud Serpent, Tillers, and Darkmoon. The thought of having Shado-Pan and August Celestials to "look forward" to, not to mention the Offensive, honestly makes me cringe.

    I know I'll get through it, but it's excruciating to me now.

    Meanwhile, I had Huojin Pandaren repped up in a couple days through spam-tanking instances while wearing a tabard. This is my dilemma.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Unaccountability.
    How many threads have we seen about the community being bad? Have you seen these posts when CRZ and its other features were not available yet? I haven't.
    I was going to read the whole thing, but then I came to this and I noticed you have absolutely no clue whatsoever. These posts started with LFD, years ago, and if you never noticed that, I have to wonder what else you missed. Go play another game, that's all I can say.
    Arguing with a troll is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what you do or say, he will just knock over the pieces, take a shit on the board and strut around like he won the whole damn thing.

  17. #17
    Sure we have dailies now to do... wooptidoo ... I am saying to remove the feature of teleporting to the dungeon.
    So you think going to an instance portal is a means to get people out but daily quests aren't? That makes 0 sense at all. Dailies get people out in the world and competing over resources which on a pvp server can mean fighting each other as well, going to an instance portal won't mean crap. People are going there to do their instance and nothing more.

    As a paladin I have no use for other offhands then a shield. Sure I could use it. But why would I?
    Because if it's better stats than your shield you'd be stupid not to? Where'd you get this idea holy paladins can only use shields as their OH? You don't need the extra armour as holy so you'd be a fool not to use a better OH just cause it's not a shield. If you were only intended to use shields then non-shield OHs wouldn't be equippable.

    So I sharded it. I also feel horrid everytime something like this happens. My item could have benefitted someone else. Yet I cannot trade such an item. Why has the trade function been removed?
    Your altruism is not the case for the LFR loot system of DS which is why this is in place. You won an OH you claim you can't use. No one else knows you won it, no one cares either way, so there is no reason to feel bad.

    But isn't it obvious that PvPgear should only be used in PvP enviroments?
    So you want world pvp but you don't want pvp gear to be used in world pvp? Okay.

    25 mans and 10 mans:
    You cannot possibly come and say that I didn't do enough effort. I took holidays, went home early, called in sick and neglected my real life in order to have recruits.
    And that's the problem. Which is why they fixed it.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 07:10 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindican View Post
    I was in one of those mindsets last week, and tore through Klaxxi, Golden Lotus, Cloud Serpent, Tillers, and Darkmoon. The thought of having Shado-Pan and August Celestials to "look forward" to, not to mention the Offensive, honestly makes me cringe.

    I know I'll get through it, but it's excruciating to me now.

    Meanwhile, I had Huojin Pandaren repped up in a couple days through spam-tanking instances while wearing a tabard. This is my dilemma.
    So you get rep for one faction up in a couple of days, or you can get rep for all factions up in a few weeks with dailies. I'd say 3 weeks to get every pandaria faction to exalted at the same time beats 5 days of instance spamming per faction with a tabard.

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