---------- Post added 2012-12-16 at 04:41 PM ----------
---------- Post added 2012-12-16 at 04:48 PM ----------
---------- Post added 2012-12-16 at 04:41 PM ----------
---------- Post added 2012-12-16 at 04:48 PM ----------
At this point you're arguing against the very nature of the achievement. This is one of the few achievements in the game that anybody can do (ie: you don't need to be a hardcore raider), but is still prestigious anyway. Nothing about it needs to be changed.
How did Blizzard screw pre-mades, what did I miss
There are two important factors for this to happen. First your team has to be at least somewhat competent and actually try to win and play strategically. Second there can't be even a single human being that can't be considered retarded on the enemy team. One of these is very unlikely to happen. Both of those at the same time, hardly a chance.
"Need" is in quotes because I'm being sarcastic. Apparently that went over your head.Originally Posted by Me
To get perfection, rush the enemy side and cap their flags. I guarantee that--in a random BG--people will give up. As a competent player, if I'm in a random BG and I see that the other team has all 4 bases capped while we have 0 points, I give up right then and there. I'd rather lose in 2 minutes and re-queue than fight an uphill battle against an apparently organized opponent.
Obviously, that can't happen every game. Sometimes you'll play an EotS where the other team has 10 people sitting at Mage Tower to start the game. You'll probably win because your opponents are retarded, but you won't get perfection. But guess what? These achieves take time for a reason.
The problem is achievements like Not Even a Scratch which have been at times literally impossible unless the entire opposing team is made of bots or people who play like bots (eg they queued in it for the first time ever). At various points in previous expansions we've gotten so geared that just 1 person will easily nuke down the unoccupied demo on the beach before the other team can even leave their starting areas. All you need is one guy out of 15 on the opposing team who has been to SotA before and your achievement is impossible - and once the gear level is badly enough out of sync with demo health you don't even need that, even bots and newbies in their first bg will accidentally kill some. (I have this achievement multiple times, so this isn't some QQ, just recognition that it's extremely bad design. More bad design of the bg than the achievement, though.) If they ever make that bot program attack the demos properly, this will be literally impossible forever.
Another example is how Perfect Storm is probably impossible to do now that battlegrounds tend to have half bots (at least during my play hours, usually worse than half bots). The problem is those bots are programmed to go cap a base at start (always Blood Elf at start for horde bots, MT for ally...) and with half the enemy team of bots plus whatever humans went that way the base gets capped fast. Would be no problem at all if you could queue with a full premade and you could afford to send a well prepared strike team to take out the bots and the humans hiding in them but you can't. Basically the only likely way to get this achievement now is to luck out on on a very late night game that starts extremely severely undermanned on the opposing side or to cheese it with a 5 man premade during the holiday event.
---------- Post added 2012-12-17 at 03:06 AM ----------
Again, as far as I can tell Perfect Storm is impossible to get now unless you end up in a game with a severely screwed up queue and no opposing players. I don't really play at prime time so I can't tell if you can find games without so many bots now but on my play times you're guaranteed to start with over half the enemy team at MT/BET because that's what the popular bot is programmed to do.You'll probably win because your opponents are retarded, but you won't get perfection. But guess what? These achieves take time for a reason.
If the other team really, really doesn't want you to get that achievment you simply wont. Especially since the nerfed Paladin auras they will have capped a base and killed your perfection if even a decent number of them moves to one of the base in EOTS. The only way to get it is when the majority goes for the middle right away and thus they can't cap a base fast enough, which only ever happens during childrends week.
As for Arathi. Got that one aswell. Chances to get it are very, very low and requires the enemy team to be utterly incompetend at about anything AND to leave their first base undefended because a single player can easily hold out for the few seconds you have to cap the base before it scores.
The problem with this is the removal of Paladin auras. That way it takes longer for your team to actually reach the enemy's bases and you have to reach both of them in time overrunning the defenders. Most of the time there'll be enough people to cap a base before you even reach it and often some of them will actually ride into your direction to stop you from ever reaching said base or at least slowing you down.To get perfection, rush the enemy side and cap their flags. I guarantee that--in a random BG--people will give up. As a competent player, if I'm in a random BG and I see that the other team has all 4 bases capped while we have 0 points, I give up right then and there. I'd rather lose in 2 minutes and re-queue than fight an uphill battle against an apparently organized opponent.
Getting perfection on both Arathi and Eots doesn't mean your team played very well, it means that you just had the luck to face one of the worst groups out there made up by a complete bunch of morons.
You can play indefinitely without getting lucky. I do have those achievment and it has nothing whatsoever to do with skill, knowledge or deserving this achievment but with getting lucky, extremly lucky if you're not running a premade. I've got mine random but I played several hundreds of each battleground across my characters.Obviously, that can't happen every game. Sometimes you'll play an EotS where the other team has 10 people sitting at Mage Tower to start the game. You'll probably win because your opponents are retarded, but you won't get perfection. But guess what? These achieves take time for a reason.
@Jaakeli, think about Isle of Conquest and the achievment where you have to controll all the bases and then win. You can be sure as hell that at least one person out of those 40 doesn't want you to get said achievment. I for example will try to recap and defend a base to the death just so the other team wont get it if there's even a remote chance for it to happen.
Achievment is pretty much BS to begin with. You have to try to get it when the other team doesn't need the bases anymore, when they're in your base already and by then you often wont have enough time to cap thoses bases.
I got lucky during the 85-90 leveling phase, when leveling my rogue alt. I, an feral and two other rogues worked together to cap those bases and the Alliance wiped thrice at our boss (party because the siege engine was killing large parts of their respawn while ours zerged down their boss).
I finished it a few months into wrath que'ing by myself I'm pretty sure you can do it with 5.
This post is so dumb. You can complete EVERY single Battlemaster achievement without having to f'ing roflstomp pugs in "rated battlegrounds". So seriously stop crying like a baby and go show your skill against skill. Getting achievements against uncoordinated teams... That's for n00bs, are you a n00b?
I don't have time to refute both of those posts individually, but you two have two arguments:
1) It's too hard with bots
Your problem is with the bots, not these achievements. Make a thread about bots.
2) There's too much luck involved
Well, there's no way to make PvP achieves without luck involved.
You were not fully aware of what I wrote, and if you were, then you purposefully misquoted me. I never said those achievements are impossible. I said the exact opposite.Originally Posted by Deleth
Last edited by Neazy; 2012-12-17 at 03:45 AM.
The whole question is a) how much luck does an achievement require and b) how much can you influence your odds with your own effort. As it is, there are a ton of achievements that take a lot of luck without giving the player ANY WAY AT ALL towards working for the achievement without a premade. Completing something like Ironman requires a good bit of luck (not just with the enemy but with no one in your team capping the flag) and a good bit of effort. I'd say pretty much everyone that does battlegrounds would agree that Ironman is a good, fun achievement that's reasonably exciting to work for, even though you need a fair bit of luck to get the circumstances right for it. Achievements that require a ton of luck while giving no way for the player to actively work towards them are the ones that no one likes (besides some people that lucked out and got them already). There *used* to be a way to work towards perfections (start a premade) but now that it's gone they should just nerf the hell out of those achievements.
And for the record, I'm only missing victory/flag defense grind type achievements that I would automatically get just by grinding battlegrounds a lot but I doubt I'll ever actually get Battlemaster now with the blacklist feature (looking forward to never, ever doing another SotA again, even when all I need for the meta is a few more victories). I don't care that much for the title and I doubt I'll ever have it (unless they nerf the victory requirement so I can have SotA without doing more of them...).
Originally Posted by NeazyYour problem is with bots. Take away the bots and five competent players will be more than enough to get EotS perfection in a couple tries.Originally Posted by jaakkeli
I've done all but 2 of these solo.
Arathi Basin Perfection
The Perfect Storm (Any advice for these 2 would be welcomed).
I got Iron Man (not the dvd) during the last weekend.
Battle master is a pretty tough achievement. Most of the time you need a great group and for the stars align in your favour!
The Perfect storm - Immediatly rush one of the two bases, pray enough people will come with you and enough of your team will rush the other side. Hope that the other team doesn't have the same idea and about 90-95% of them are going for middle. If you managed to get all 4 bases, try to get the flag and score before these 14-15 people can overrun one of your bases.
Only ever happens during children week and with account wide achievments even this becomes far more unlikely.
You can still queue a pre-made using the countdown method. The only difference between countdown and add-ons like preform AV enabler is the leader does all the queuing with the addon - with countdown everyone is responsible for queuing themselves at the correct time. There is no guarantee of everyone getting the same "pop" with an add-on. I rarely used the addons anyway, and if you have a full vent room all queuing, the chances are good that you can get at least 80% of the group into the same BG instance. Dont need no stinking addons.
As for the achievs, yes there are some where you really do want a solid premade group. However, they should all be possible even in a random pug, I've picked up a few along the way just because I was trying for them from the time the gates opened.