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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post
    Yeah it's always up to you to choose to follow orders you may or may not agree with, or along with yourself, get your entire family killed for shaming Die Mutterland. It's easy to take the moral highroad in 2012 sitting in a comfortable chair in a home in a democratically "free" society. It's a whole different story when it can cost the lives of both yourself and everyone you love.
    I understand that, And thats why i said its not something easy to do and i would have probably chose to do the same. And who wouldn't? I guess he did but when you go by what was right and wrong, that wasn't right. And in those days it was probably very tempting to do the ( wrong ) thing. In fear of everything you mentioned and more.
    Last edited by Riddles; 2012-12-07 at 07:30 AM.

  2. #262
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Well yes, But forced or not in the end you do still have a choice. I'm not saying i'm perfect maybe i would have done the same even ( I feel a bit weird saying that )
    But fear makes you do a lot of things you normally wouldn't do. But i guess i cannot help feeling that in the end it will always be up to you.
    Yes it's a choice and we all want to be moral. Heck I really see myself as that and say I would but this is a EXTREME situation, very extreme. I cannot say with a straight face I would do the right thing. I'm very gung-ho on not taking a life personally but I know if I did I'd never forgive myself...especially if I was in this Nazi's position.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron Big fanboy of Yrel now. Love her now

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Waifu View Post
    I understand that, And thats why i said its not something easy to do and i would have probably chose to do the same. And who wouldn't? I guess he did but when you go by what was right and wrong, that wasn't right. And in those days it was probably very tempting to do the ( wrong ) thing.
    So in a space of three posts you go from "he should pay for what he did" to "I would have done the same." So then you would be ok with it if, over 50 years later, having escaped with your life and simply gone about raising a family and being a productive member of society, you should be tried and potentially even executed for doing so?

  4. #264
    Mechagnome Akarui's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post
    Yeah it's always up to you to choose to follow orders you may or may not agree with, or along with yourself, get your entire family killed for shaming Die Mutterland. It's easy to take the moral highroad in 2012 sitting in a comfortable chair in a home in a democratically "free" society. It's a whole different story when it can cost the lives of both yourself and everyone you love.
    Yup, most people only served since there own families were likely to be under suspicion of being traitors since you didn't kill that jew who was running away from the camp. Many soldiers would sell each other out for a pat on the back and put them in the good books, disobeying orders and getting away with it is not possible.

    People who fell under Hitlers 'magic' voice, being encouraged to abuse minorities and raid there homes are much worse than some soldier who just did what he was told to avoid death, dishonor, and his own families death of course :P
    “4chan once took on the FBI and won,” a Brony told the New York Observer, “so you might say that My Little Pony is more powerful than the FBI.” Sethisto

  5. #265
    Banned TheGravemind's Avatar
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    Instinct. Altruism is within us from our moment of conscious existence. Regardless of being raised as a sociopath or psychopath, everyone innately knows that massacring innocents is inherently evil and something that should never be done. He should answer for his crimes in an impartial court of justice. Go.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post
    So in a space of three posts you go from "he should pay for what he did" to "I would have done the same." So then you would be ok with it if, over 50 years later, having escaped with your life and simply gone about raising a family and being a productive member of society, you should be tried and potentially even executed for doing so?
    I guess its quite hard to say, But when you do something like that you should atleast be aware of that you might not get away with it. No one likes to be executed, Especially not when you have been gone raising a family and did whatever productive in your life. And i guess it is easy to talk from my chair in todays world but i personally feel like i would have deserved it. But yeah i suppose it isn't something you can just say randomly. I'd have to be in that position to know what and how.
    but for as far as i can say, i feel this way.

    Hope that makes any sense

  7. #267
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post
    Instinct. Altruism is within us from our moment of inception. Regardless of being raised as a sociopath or psychopath, everyone innately knows that massacring innocents is inherently evil and something that should never be done. He should answer for his crimes in an impartial court of justice. Go.


    *Claps* Who cares if he was forced, that shouldn't matter. JUSTICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    You can yell Justice to the heavens, doesn't mean you're right.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron Big fanboy of Yrel now. Love her now

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post
    Instinct. Altruism is within us from our moment of conscious existence. Regardless of being raised as a sociopath or psychopath, everyone innately knows that massacring innocents is inherently evil and something that should never be done. He should answer for his crimes in an impartial court of justice. Go.
    Which is why rule number one of the propaganda game is to "paint the enemy as something less than human." This is why so many works of propaganda feature caricatures rather than portraits, and dehumanizing language describing the enemy as "filth" or "monsters" or "mongrels". It's a whole lot easier to murder innocents when you've been indoctrinated to view them as sub-human. And before you climb up on your moral high horse, as you are wont to do, you should know that the U.S. engaged in propaganda programs extensively during WWI and WWII, featuring such things as the Japanese Emperor being little more than a pair of glasses over slanted eyes, gigantic ears, and big buck teeth.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by LolretKJ View Post
    The United States nuked Japan twice.....
    There was no "we meant to only hit military hubs" when dropping nuclear bombs.
    People really need to change the track, since this is apperently the ONLY responce I'm seeing lately.

    If the only responce you have to evil is 'someone else did evil stuff too!' then you need to go get educated on proper rebuttals.

    Yes, and the US slaughtered the vast majority of the Native population as well. Does that excuse everyone else's murdering?

    NO.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post
    Right, and your point would be valid if it considered that Allied bomber pilots did not intentionally target civilians, but rather targeted military hubs and civilians were collateral damage as a result. But sure, civilians are dead either way, true, but if you live near a military hub during a time of war, then you're acting as a human shield for it. It's partially your fault for being hit with napalm or whatever munitions were used.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 05:24 AM ----------



    I believe I have already stated what I would have done.
    The hell you on about Germany was carpet bombed. There's HUNDRED of cases of civilian targeting. Check the greatest marine disaster in history. The GUSTLOFF.

    Get your fact straight, wars were different back then.
    It's been 70 years now, and he wasn't a crucial part of it.
    It would be crazy to pursue him.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    The hell you on about Germany was carpet bombed. There's HUNDRED of cases of civilian targeting. Check the greatest marine disaster in history. The GUSTLOFF.

    Get your fact straight, wars were different back then.
    It's been 70 years now, and he wasn't a crucial part of it.
    It would be crazy to pursue him.
    Well speak of the devil, I was just saying a bit ago how you should be involved in this thread!

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron View Post
    *Claps* Who cares if he was forced, that shouldn't matter. JUSTICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    You can yell Justice to the heavens, doesn't mean you're right.
    Yep. Some people would have put every single German and Japanese person on trial for war crimes if they could. I guess the whole concept of being forced to do something or being shot and having your family shot is completely alien to them. Which they should be thankful for.

    All that's said and done, he was merely a guard. If he claims not to have killed anyone, fair enough - many soldiers kill and don't have to face any form of justice. I don't see him as having done anything wrong.

    Oh, as for the whole SS thing. Do you think the recruitment posters mentioned the evil things they did? No. They were special forces, and it was seen as an honour to join them. Most SS would have been ignorant to what the rest of the organisation were up to. Its not as if he was even an officer.

  13. #273
    Pit Lord Skorpionss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zuckas View Post
    Well, guess it's time to start bringing up all American soldiers that ever fought in the Iraq war up on charges for crimes against humanity considering the thousands upon thousands of innocent civilians they killed. Hell, there's even a video of a helicopter crew purposefully killing a group of unarmed civilians and celebrating it. Not too mention all the guards at Guantanamo for the torture that is _ONGOING_ there. The law has to be applied to everyone not just the winner's.
    nah brah... the US is WORLD POLIZ and they no do any injustice... they just want every1 to play nice...

    on a more serious note, while I still think that some of the things they do actually help... they are ALWAYS in for themselves and their profit... that's how it has always been since the country was founded and that's how it'll always be...

    OT... I really don't give a shit man... guy's 88 what the fuck... let the man die in peace... u had 60+years to punish him wtf were u waiting for ?

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Skorpionss View Post
    u had 60+years to punish him wtf were u waiting for ?
    Arent they hard to find though? Some time ago there was a thread on another Former Nazi something too and if i remember it correctly they thought he was dead for all this time.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Waifu View Post
    Arent they hard to find though? Some time ago there was a thread on another Former Nazi something too and if i remember it correctly they thought he was dead for all this time.
    There's literally an entire village of them in Argentina. Some in Costa Rica as well. They aren't looking THAT hard.

  16. #276
    Immortal Quetzl's Avatar
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    WWII is over last I checked. Let the man live out his last 1.5 years in peace.

    If we're going to persecute guards of prison camps who didn't kill anyone, maybe we should start with the Americans who guarded the Japanese camps...

  17. #277
    Banned TheGravemind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skorpionss View Post
    nah brah... the US is WORLD POLIZ and they no do any injustice... they just want every1 to play nice...

    on a more serious note, while I still think that some of the things they do actually help... they are ALWAYS in for themselves and their profit... that's how it has always been since the country was founded and that's how it'll always be...

    OT... I really don't give a shit man... guy's 88 what the fuck... let the man die in peace... u had 60+years to punish him wtf were u waiting for ?
    On a tangential note, which country or nation on Earth has liberated even half as many as countries/peoples as the United States of America?

    Let's see who the U.S.A. has liberated:

    1. Nicaragua from the Sandinistas
    2. Panama
    3. Grenada
    4. Iraq
    5. Kosovo
    6. Kuwait
    7. Balkans in general.
    8. Europe in WW1
    9. Europe in WW2.
    10. Pacific theater in WW2.
    11. Attempted to liberate South Vietnam, partially succeeded militarily.
    12. Attempted to liberate all of Korea, succeeded in liberating South Korea.
    13. Liberated much of China from the Japanese.
    14. Liberated Libya.
    15. About to liberate Syria (probably.)
    16. Liberated Sierra Leone.
    17. Tore down apartheid in South Africa by supporting Nelson Mandela, and therefore deserve partial credit for liberating Africa.
    18. Liberated Egypt by not propping up Hosni Mubarak.
    19. Liberated East Timor from Indonesia with the Australians.
    20. Liberated Cuba from the Spanish in the 19th century.
    21. Liberated all of South America due to the implications of the Monroe Doctrine.
    22. Liberated much of the world today due to the implications of the Truman/Eisenhower Doctrines.
    23. Liberated North Africa (Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Egypt) from the Nazi Afrika Korps.

    There you go. 22+ incidents of liberation with over 100 countries/peoples affected. God Bless America.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post
    There's literally an entire village of them in Argentina. Some in Costa Rica as well. They aren't looking THAT hard.
    I guess they arent then =/

  19. #279
    Banned TheGravemind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    WWII is over last I checked. Let the man live out his last 1.5 years in peace.

    If we're going to persecute guards of prison camps who didn't kill anyone, maybe we should start with the Americans who guarded the Japanese camps...
    No one was tortured or massacred within the Japanese internment camps within the U.S.A.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post
    No one was tortured or massacred within the Japanese internment camps within the U.S.A.
    Ok now you're just trolling. Please tell me you aren't that fucking stupid.

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