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  1. #81
    Dreadlord Wookeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post
    No, you are misinterpreting what he means (if he is a truthful man.) You were conscripted into the Wehrmacht after the Sturmabteilung was dissolved/purged by Hitler (due to Ernst Rohn's increasing power), and if you had the desired eugenics, you could apply to the Schutzstaffel which was considered to be a more "prestigous" branch of Nazi Germany's war machine to work for as well as the fact that it paid better/had better benefits. He was conscripted into the Wehrmacht, but he consciously decided to join the largest group of systematic killers in history.
    Obviously unaware. Plenty of people where forced into the waffen ss, yes, forced. I know a couple that where forced as well, by their families mostly. Others where young and stupid and if you know much about history (which i highly doubt) they didn't exactly advertise "Hey, u hate jews ? Join us, we'll gas em, shoot em and burn em while singing goombaya! Call 1-800-FuckYeah!". People didn't know what they got into and once they got in... there was only one way out. Strange isn't it, that 99% of the people that are alive have a will to survive what ever the means ? Unheard of.

  2. #82
    Pandaren Monk TheGravemind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post
    Yep we're done here. Move along, nothing to see.
    "You disagree with my opinion regarding American Marines and other military personnel in the Pacific theater of war during WW2, so you must be trolling/stupid."

    ^ Essentially what you just said. It's fine, though, if you can not compete in a debate substantively, then I realize that you must stoop to inane tactics such as the one your employing right now.
    This one is machine and nerve, and has its mind concluded.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by orissa View Post
    Would you have?

    Or would you have simply gone along with the regime for fear of your own life?

    I think most people say they'd liberate the camp, but most would simply try to survive. Being a nazi is startlingly not a black and white concept, especially for conscripts.
    There are NO records of anyone ever being forced into service by the Nazi regime to commit atrocities. Not a single one. All of them said it afterwards at the Nuremberg trials or otherwise. Its not a black and white issue, for sure. But there were lots of people who escaped prior, and there are even some people who refused to kill, they were not punished, they had to do the menial shit, like scrub floors and stuff. They were not punished for not killing, they were rewarded for killing. Massive difference.

    No, they didn't fear their own life, they just didn't care for the lives of the people in the camp. Chris Browning's book, Ordinary Men, paints a very clear picture of the classic argument against a "clean Wehrmacht" as well. The people in the service of the Einsatzgruppen were also under the supervision of the Wehrmacht, and they were killing damn near indiscriminately. Also not punished.

    Brainwashing can be very powerful when you have no other methods of getting information.

  4. #84
    Stood in the Fire Galdur's Avatar
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    I find it also funny that many Americans demand his deportation/inprisonment.
    Sure the Nazis did some heavy sh*t but ever since then the USA has taken part in so many wars that could easily match or even supass the victims of the nazis.
    Starting from Vietnam. Korea,the Gulf, Sarajevo and not to mention the latest one wich technically its Americas fault, if they didnt support Afganistan so much when they where waring with Russia maybe things wouldnt be so bad today.
    In short, stop butting in into everyone's bussiness :P

  5. #85
    Titan Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemishunter1 View Post
    Killing unjustly is killing unjustly. Does not matter how it was done. The dead do not care.
    The point I am making. Soldiers did something that the people of America didn't agree with. In Japan they tended to agree and made torture and killings into a little contest.

  6. #86
    Dreadlord Wookeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tric619 View Post
    I find it also funny that many Americans demand his deportation/inprisonment.
    Sure the Nazis did some heavy sh*t but ever since then the USA has taken part in so many wars that could easily match or even supass the victims of the nazis.
    Starting from Vietnam. Korea,the Gulf, Sarajevo and not to mention the latest one wich technically its Americas fault, if they didnt support Afganistan so much when they where waring with Russia maybe things wouldnt be so bad today.
    In short, stop butting in into everyone's bussiness :P
    “History is written by the victors.” ~Winston Churchill.

  7. #87
    The Insane Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post
    "You disagree with my opinion regarding American Marines and other military personnel in the Pacific theater of war during WW2, so you must be trolling/stupid."

    ^ Essentially what you just said. It's fine, though, if you can not compete in a debate substantively, then I realize that you must stoop to inane tactics such as the one your employing right now.

    You're overzealous


    In short, stop butting in into everyone's bussiness :P

    Then don't bitch at us when we help.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple

  8. #88
    Pandaren Monk TheGravemind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LolretKJ View Post
    JUSTICE, JUSTICE, JUSTICE. It's all i see you typing about. I assume that since you're such a strong believer in justice that we should trial George W. Bush should for his war crimes in Iraq? Also do you believe that Casey Anthony really got a fair trial based on the fact that she was guilty before proven innocent? I also suppose you believe that in this case, we should hunt down every single person in this country who has ever committed a crime no matter the scale, and bring them all to your beloved "Justice?"
    This has to be the largest strawman I've seen on MMO-C in years. If we're in a practical position to bring a murderer, any murderer, to justice (which we are right now), I am without a shred of doubt in favor of doing so. Nothing in your argument is analogous to my actual expressed position.
    This one is machine and nerve, and has its mind concluded.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by LolretKJ View Post
    JUSTICE, JUSTICE, JUSTICE. It's all i see you typing about. I assume that since you're such a strong believer in justice that we should trial George W. Bush should for his war crimes in Iraq? Also do you believe that Casey Anthony really got a fair trial based on the fact that she was guilty before proven innocent? I also suppose you believe that in this case, we should hunt down every single person in this country who has ever committed a crime no matter the scale, and bring them all to your beloved "Justice?"
    Ok, what will be the warcrimes there? He did not authorize massacre of civilians, he only started the wars based on inaccurate intel. He is incompetent leader but not war criminal. Casey Anthony was found not guilty. Yes, we should, but we can not because lack of resources, so we focus on the big crimes.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 01:04 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post
    He was prepared to shoot anyone who wanted to escape certain death at the hands of his despicable comrades, from little kids to elderly mothers to the sick to the disabled to anyone else.
    He did not sign up for the job, no choice at his hands. Job included that, so he did. He won't be much of a guard, if he allows people to escape.

  10. #90
    Mechagnome LolretKJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    So in America we had newspaper stories saying "Our great American soldiers today are racing to 100. Who can shoot 100 women in the head first! Morgan vs Fitzgerald! Who will win! Kill those bitches!"

    My title is a little over the top but let us remember Japan knew full well what was happening in china and their soldiers had their support. Unlike the vets of the Vietnam war who returned to a country that despised them.

    "Contest to cut down 100 people" you know beheading with Katanas. America didn't have shit like that in their papers.
    I would google to see if this was true or not but I'm to lazy. Not to just google the issue, but because if you ask a Japanese person who was taught standard Japanese history about what happened in China during WW2 he would not have a clue in the world what you were talking about if you brought up Nanking.

    Not to mention, Japan did everything in their power to erase any evidence of what happened, and still don't acknowledge it.

    I'm going to leave off with this. I wasn't there, and I'm not fortunate enough to have a grandparent or relative who was alive during the time to tell me about what they saw.

    I think it's safe to say that none of us were there first hand, and so almost everything in this thread is speculation, which I'm pretty sure can go without saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    Oh would you now? It truly is amazing how many heroic people we have wasting their time on internet.

  11. #91
    The Insane Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    The bush thing...well he said there was WMD's in Iraq...and there wasn't and it was one of the big reasons we went there. There wasn't any...so....yah
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple

  12. #92
    Moderator Remilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wookeh View Post
    “History is written by the victors.” ~Winston Churchill.
    and history is full of liars.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post
    All must answer of their crimes; if you commit a murder 60 years ago, you can still be charged for it today, so of course this man (who was at the very least an accessory to many murders 50 years ago) should be deported and charged for his crimes.

    There is no "forgiving" to be done here. Tough luck; should've thought twice before killing those innocent people, against your will or not.
    We should be trying a lot of allied soldiers for the same exact crimes then.
    What about the millions of Christians that the Russians killed and lumped into mass graves(...that were actually found *cough*)

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post
    "You disagree with my opinion regarding American Marines and other military personnel in the Pacific theater of war during WW2, so you must be trolling/stupid."

    ^ Essentially what you just said. It's fine, though, if you can not compete in a debate substantively, then I realize that you must stoop to inane tactics such as the one your employing right now.
    orly? Go see every thread on this board having to do with the current situation regarding Palestinian statehood and you will see I'm fully capable of debate. The thing about debate is, it requires an open mind. I can tell you all about how during the Vietnam War U.S. citizens were FORCED to fight a war they didn't even believe in. The penalty for refusing to fight was prison. In Nazi Germany, the penalty was DEATH. And as far as the U.S. being benevolent, we aren't. The U.S. has committed just as many war crimes as any other nation on this planet, the only difference is THEY write the history books, THEY write the news, so it's something you don't hear about.

  15. #95
    Pandaren Monk TheGravemind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemishunter1 View Post
    Ok, what will be the warcrimes there? He did not authorize massacre of civilians, he only started the wars based on inaccurate intel. He is incompetent leader but not war criminal. Casey Anthony was found not guilty. Yes, we should, but we can not because lack of resources, so we focus on the big crimes.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 01:04 AM ----------



    He did not sign up for the job, no choice at his hands. Job included that, so he did. He won't be much of a guard, if he allows people to escape.
    Then he traded his humanity and morality for being a good guard for a murderous regime, and now he gets to deal with the consequences of his self-centered and disgusting actions. JUSTICE
    This one is machine and nerve, and has its mind concluded.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post
    Then he traded his humanity and morality for being a good guard for a murderous regime, and now he gets to deal with the consequences of his self-centered and disgusting actions. JUSTICE
    Who are you to decide what is justice? And no that isn't rhetorical, I genuinely want to know who the fuck you think you are that you can judge this man as guilty without even knowing the circumstances.

  17. #97
    Mechagnome LolretKJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post
    This has to be the largest strawman I've seen on MMO-C in years. If we're in a practical position to bring a murderer, any murderer, to justice (which we are right now), I am without a shred of doubt in favor of doing so. Nothing in your argument is analogous to my actual expressed position.
    Ah but you're talking about murder, when I simply said any crime of any scale anywhere.

    Now we have to look at what your definition of Justice is.

    http://www.amazon.com/Prosecution-Ge.../dp/B001IWO88O

    And read that book if you want to know what I'm talking about with George Bush.
    In case you don't know, Vincent Bugliosi was the man who won the court case sentencing Charles Manson to life in prison.

    Now back to the Justice thing.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Justice?s=t

    I think the 5th definition best suits the examples we have been discussing here.
    5. the administering of deserved punishment or reward.

    If so, then should we all rise for judge Psyopz to administer the proper justice for all the petty thieves and major felons?
    Last edited by LolretKJ; 2012-12-07 at 06:10 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    Oh would you now? It truly is amazing how many heroic people we have wasting their time on internet.

  18. #98
    Pandaren Monk TheGravemind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post
    orly? Go see every thread on this board having to do with the current situation regarding Palestinian statehood and you will see I'm fully capable of debate. The thing about debate is, it requires an open mind. I can tell you all about how during the Vietnam War U.S. citizens were FORCED to fight a war they didn't even believe in. The penalty for refusing to fight was prison. In Nazi Germany, the penalty was DEATH. And as far as the U.S. being benevolent, we aren't. The U.S. has committed just as many war crimes as any other nation on this planet, the only difference is THEY write the history books, THEY write the news, so it's something you don't hear about.
    You do not need an open mind for debate, you just have to be rational. I am rational and my mind is concluded with ideas that are an amalgamation of rationality and reason, as per my signature.
    This one is machine and nerve, and has its mind concluded.

  19. #99
    Dreadlord Wookeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemishunter1 View Post
    Ok, what will be the warcrimes there? He did not authorize massacre of civilians, he only started the wars based on inaccurate intel. He is incompetent leader but not war criminal. Casey Anthony was found not guilty. Yes, we should, but we can not because lack of resources, so we focus on the big crimes.
    He did that the second he ordered te bombing of Baghdad.

  20. #100
    Pandaren Monk Fred Rupprecht's Avatar
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    What about the war crimes the United States has committed over the years? When is action going to be taken to these guys? It's not going to happen, because of the good ol' American double standard.

    Also, I'm German-American. Perhaps I should be deported to for because my parents are German, huh?

    And here's some statistical evidence for showing that Hitler wasn't the worst dictator. I'm not defending him, I'm just saying that people need to grow up and move on. That's what this guy did.

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