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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post
    I believe I'll be saying this for the 4th time now: LIBERATE THE CAMP OR DIE TRYING
    See, this isn't fair. You can't expect that of someone. You can't say "attempt this impossible task that will kill you or else you're evil".

    What he should have done is run the fuck away. It would be scary and it would be difficult and it would be dangerous, but it is the easiest alternative to being an accessory to such evil.

  2. #162
    Titan Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    No, he should face justice like a man, and explain himself like everybody else, the victims and the legacy of that tragic event demands it. This isn't a sure fire death sentence or something, he will be given a FAIR trial, which is far more than he ever gave to any of those millions he helped to murder.
    He probably didn't help to murder "millions"

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by madaghmire View Post
    Also, several posters have mentioned bombing actions taken by the US as being somehow or someway comparable to the concentration camps. This whole line of reasoning is patently absurd. The point of war is to destroy your opponents ability to wage it, and killing their mans is part of that. Civilians are a resource. They work in factories, they grow food, they grow and take up weapons and stop being civilians. Yes, this leads to some pretty horrific stuff. Lives destroyed, families and communities decimated, that sort of thing. War is horrible folks. It should be avoided at all costs. But there is a huge, huge difference in the horrors perpetrated by two sides at war, and the horrors perpetrated when the Nazi party rounded up any of its own citizens didn't fit the right racial, religious or health profile and systematically put them to death.
    But when Israel does it it's A-OK, right?


    Infracted.

    Don't make quotes as big as this one when replying to someone.


    Edit: Cut out the unnecessary bits per Mods.
    Last edited by Priestiality; 2012-12-07 at 03:56 PM.

  4. #164
    Banned TheGravemind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post
    So, all those V2 rockets and not a single person was killed with them? So THAT'S why we took in Von Braun, not because he could get us to the moon before the Russians.
    V2 rockets were being manufactured for primarily military reasons, not for reasons of "yo, let's kill as many innocent people as we can," which is an adequate summary of the Final Solution. Hitler and Stalin's guilt is not congruent to what you associate with those scientists at all.

    Besides, those scientists redeemed themselves by spending the rest of their lives working to further the cause of humanity anyway.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 06:34 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Vuljatar View Post
    See, this isn't fair. You can't expect that of someone. You can't say "attempt this impossible task that will kill you or else you're evil".

    What he should have done is run the fuck away. It would be scary and it would be difficult and it would be dangerous, but it is the easiest alternative to being an accessory to such evil.
    That would have worked, too, and as I said earlier: there were literally dozens of options available to him. You and I merely listed ~3.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post
    All must answer of their crimes; if you commit a murder 60 years ago, you can still be charged for it today, so of course this man (who was at the very least an accessory to many murders 50 years ago) should be deported and charged for his crimes.

    There is no "forgiving" to be done here. Tough luck; should've thought twice before killing those innocent people, against your will or not.
    >Texas

    Don't ban me, its true.

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Majad; 2012-12-07 at 03:26 PM.

  6. #166
    Epic! Mall Security's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madaghmire View Post
    Personally, I feel like at this point any action taken against some 80 something year old man is at best punitive. It's closer to revenge then the pursuit of justice. I'm not saying that particularly bothers me, given my own family background, but I don't think we should lie to ourselves and get self-righteous about it.

    Also, several posters have mentioned bombing actions taken by the US as being somehow or someway comparable to the concentration camps. This whole line of reasoning is patently absurd. The point of war is to destroy your opponents ability to wage it, and killing their mans is part of that. Civilians are a resource. They work in factories, they grow food, they grow and take up weapons and stop being civilians. Yes, this leads to some pretty horrific stuff. Lives destroyed, families and communities decimated, that sort of thing. War is horrible folks. It should be avoided at all costs. But there is a huge, huge difference in the horrors perpetrated by two sides at war, and the horrors perpetrated when the Nazi party rounded up any of its own citizens didn't fit the right racial, religious or health profile and systematically put them to death.

    If you feel a need to compare the camps to something the US has done, the best analogy is the Japanese Internment Camps we set up. The conditions were only marginally, if at all better then the German ones, although at least we didn't start executing prisoners...well, en masse anyway. These were Japanese americans, often CITIZENS, whose property, business and assets were seized while they were sent to work camps.

    You know, lots of folks died there too. Should we start rounding up any American soldiers who worked there? Maybe we can find some Justice in that.

    While we're looking.

    This man served in the S.S and tried to hide that fact, by taking on another life, rather than answer for any crimes he commited, that has nothing to do with anybody elses but himself. The fact he is 80 doesn't exuse his actions either.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    There is a such thing as self preservation. If I was in that time and I was forced to join the Nazi's and I was in charge of a camp. I would feel horrible everyday, but I wouldn't want to lay down my life.
    Indeed, it is easy to say something while you're in your heated dorm at college on your keyboard, but then they will actually kill you and your family, it becomes a whole different story.

  8. #168
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    This man served in the S.S and tried to hide that fact, by taking on another life, rather than answer for any crimes he commited, that has nothing to do with anybody elses but himself. The fact he is 80 doesn't exuse his actions either.

    Has he really tried to hide it? Perhaps he's ashamed of it? Considering how "OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!" mentality posters are here I understand why.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple

  9. #169
    Mechagnome LolretKJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methanar View Post
    >Texas

    Don't ban me, its true.
    Oh god, I laughed way to long at that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    Oh would you now? It truly is amazing how many heroic people we have wasting their time on internet.

  10. #170
    Epic! Mall Security's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    He probably didn't help to murder "millions"

    How do you know that? Or is that wishful thinking?


    That is why he will be facing a trial, and given a chance to defend himself, the fact is more likely based on the positon he held, and the fact he fled justice rather than stand up and explain himself, suggest otherwise.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post
    V2 rockets were being manufactured for primarily military reasons, not for reasons of "yo, let's kill as many innocent people as we can," which is an adequate summary of the Final Solution. Hitler and Stalin's guilt is not congruent to what you associate with those scientists at all.

    Besides, those scientists redeemed themselves by spending the rest of their lives working to further the cause of humanity anyway.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 06:34 AM ----------



    That would have worked, too, and as I said earlier: there were literally dozens of options available to him. You and I merely listed ~3.
    Oh so just because the rockets were aimed at military installations (they weren't always, but I'm humoring you since you have a severely white-washed view of history) it's ok if a few hundred civilians die because they weren't the PRIMARY target, they just happened to be there. Your hypocrisy makes me sick. You're a disgusting human being and I pray one day you realize what the world was REALLY like then, and what it's REALLY like now.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post
    Yes, I said that Hitler and Stalin never actually killed anyone directly themselves, but were still guilty for it BECAUSE THEY ENDORSED/AIDED/ABETTED the killing of the innocent.

    ^ This is NOT true of the scientists that the United States took in following the war as they did NOT ENDORSE/AID/ABET the killing of innocent people.
    /rolls-eyes

    its very obvious (even your sig hints it) that you are a brain-washed drone, so I'm not gonna bother trying to have a decent argument with you.

    /sarcasm mode.

    Yes honey, those poor sweet scientists are completely innocent, and absolutely NONE of their contributiosn for the Fürher ever EVER was used to harm anything in this good earth, after all, we know how much Hitler loved to hire scientists to investigate how to make bunnies fluffier, how to make cotton sweeter, and how to make sparkles sparkier.

    Therefore, there is absolutely nothing wrong with offering asylum and pardon to those poor tortured souls who absolutely never harmed a fly in their entire lives

    /end sarcasm.

    if you truly believe that, then there is no point in this conversation continuing.

    Live happy on your fantasy land.

    Por que odiar si amar es mas dulce? (*^_^*)

  13. #173
    War such a grey area... So funny to see so many people play the moralist in a dilemma far exceeding the capacity and knowledge one can have unless being in that situation. Sure morally wrong. But so are many things we today and support our government in doing.

    <--- served 3 tours in Afghanistan as Infantry.

    I say let the old man be and to all the burn the man at the stakers here. You will never ever ever ever know what you would do in that situation. There is no right or wrong only shades of grey in war.

  14. #174
    Epic! Mall Security's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron View Post
    Has he really tried to hide it? Perhaps he's ashamed of it? Considering how "OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!" mentality posters are here I understand why.

    Yes, and like him you would diminish the actual fact of the crimes he maybe guilty of, and to suggest that it isn't even prudent to ask is both obnoxious, and telling of your bias as is his.



    Of course explaining himself will be difficult, but if he is innocent, and as a man regardless to what he has done, or didn't do at the very least if he was sorry for what he had done, he would do the right thing and stand trial.

  15. #175
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    How do you know that? Or is that wishful thinking?


    That is why he will be facing a trial, and given a chance to defend himself, the fact is more likely based on the positon he held, and the fact he fled justice rather than stand up and explain himself, suggest otherwise.

    How do we know he did help murder millions? It's a two-way street. Look I despise nazis as much as the next person but...we need to be fair here.


    Yes, and like him you would diminish the actual fact of the crimes he maybe guilty of, and to suggest that it isn't even prudent to ask is both obnoxious, and telling of your bias as is his.



    Of course explaining himself will be difficult, but if he is innocent, and as a man regardless to what he has done, or didn't do at the very least if he was sorry for what he had done, he would do the right thing and stand trial.
    Slow down there Judge Judy. I'm not bias at all. Seriously you and Psy need to calm down.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple

  16. #176
    Banned TheGravemind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methanar View Post
    >Texas

    Don't ban me, its true.
    Unfortunately for you, I live in California ROFL.

  17. #177
    Mechagnome LolretKJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derah View Post
    /rolls-eyes

    its very obvious (even your sig hints it) that you are a brain-washed drone, so I'm not gonna bother trying to have a decent argument with you.

    /sarcasm mode.

    Yes honey, those poor sweet scientists are completely innocent, and absolutely NONE of their contributiosn for the Fürher ever EVER was used to harm anything in this good earth, after all, we know how much Hitler loved to hire scientists to investigate how to make bunnies fluffier, how to make cotton sweeter, and how to make sparkles sparkier.

    Therefore, there is absolutely nothing wrong with offering asylum and pardon to those poor tortured souls who absolutely never harmed a fly in their entire lives

    /end sarcasm.

    if you truly believe that, then there is no point in this conversation continuing.

    Live happy on your fantasy land.
    Well put sir, I might have to use that last sentence in my signature.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    Oh would you now? It truly is amazing how many heroic people we have wasting their time on internet.

  18. #178
    The Lightbringer Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post
    Amen!

    The blood of the innocent demands justice.

    JUSTICE

    JUSTICE...
    You dont know what justice is junior, truly. You think you know how you'd react, but you dont really know. And if you say you are absolutely certain you know how you'd act in any given situation then you are just lying to yourself and to the rest of us. Until you've seen the evidence or lived his life then you really have no business judging him, or anyone else.

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    I come from a time and a place where I judge people by the content of their character; I don't give a damn if you are tall or short; gay or straight; Jew or Gentile; White, Black, Brown or Green; Conservative or Liberal.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    How do you know that? Or is that wishful thinking?


    That is why he will be facing a trial, and given a chance to defend himself, the fact is more likely based on the positon he held, and the fact he fled justice rather than stand up and explain himself, suggest otherwise.
    He was a guard at 2 different camps. The Nazi's had over 15,000 camps throughout Europe during WWII. During this time ~6,000,000 Jews were put to death in those camps. Based on those numbers it's physically impossible for him to have helped murder millions of people unless he's capable of existing in multiple places at the same time.

  20. #180
    Mechagnome LolretKJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psyopz View Post
    unfortunately for you, i live in california rofl.
    oh good god, i'm hiding.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    Oh would you now? It truly is amazing how many heroic people we have wasting their time on internet.

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