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  1. #241
    Mechagnome LolretKJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post
    Who I am or what I do is irrelevant. I'm not calling for an 88 year old mans blood. But if you must know I'm a 28 year old IT professional that studies astrophysics as a hobby. I'm a Libra and I like long walks on the beach at sunset. No smokers please.
    You should go out with Ghostcrawler, he likes long walks on the beach as well.

    If you bend that way (assuming you're male)
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    Oh would you now? It truly is amazing how many heroic people we have wasting their time on internet.

  2. #242
    [QUOTE=Mall Security;19358333]
    Quote Originally Posted by madaghmire View Post



    See the problem is you don't know, we don't know he is being asked to answer for his part in what he DID DO. If the evidence shows or finds that he is guilty, you have already made your position as clear as i have, IF he was guilty if he then KNEW what actions he took would lead to what they did, and IF he had a choice not to participate in it, but decided otherwise the based on the weight of his crime, he should be punished accordingly. You however hold the position that, " Oh Well it was soo Long ago", Sorry but that isn't the issue, we don't stop seeking justice because it becomes a matter uncomfortable for the person who commited the crime.
    That's really not my position. If we're going to stick with oversimplifications, my position is essentially that its silly to punish the grunts of a war fought two generations ago. Don't get me wrong, if you can bring me the administrator that facility, or some German officers who actually made decisions, by all means, prosecute away. You bring the rope and I'll find the tree, someone else can bring some whiskey and we can lynch ourselves a nazi. But with the facts on hand this looks more like misplaced aggression.
    Last edited by madaghmire; 2012-12-07 at 07:10 AM.

  3. #243
    Pandaren Monk TheGravemind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post
    Who I am or what I do is irrelevant. I'm not calling for an 88 year old mans blood. But if you must know I'm a 28 year old IT professional that studies astrophysics as a hobby. I'm a Libra and I like long walks on the beach at sunset. No smokers please.
    Who you are or what you do is irrelevant, is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post
    Right except every time I've made a valid point, using facts, you either outright ignore it or throw more patriotic rhetoric at us without ever really addressing it. And you still haven't told us why you're more qualified than some of us to make a judgement against this man.
    Then why were you mentioning qualifications (which confers personal credentials) in the above quote? Cognitive dissonance much?

    Oh, and I'm not calling for anyone's blood either. I'm saying that he shouldn't be able to evade trial.
    This one is machine and nerve, and has its mind concluded.

    There is no victor except Allah.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post
    I realize it's easier to label some as a zealot/fundamentalist/fanatic rather than engaging in substantive debate.
    It is easier, however what you are doing is not a debate, its you shouting constantly "I'M RIGHT, AND YOU ARE WRONG. FOR JUSTICE!!!!" Over and over. Your comment on the nazi scientists cemented that you are blind to reason, and that, since your government allowed these MURDERERS IN, then, by your logic, they can't possibly have commited any fault, because if they did, then what your government did was wrong, and your government can never be wrong, therefore they werent, therefore those scientists were not bad people. See what I mean?

    It is rather despicable to see you label my position (which is mainstream in Germany and most of the United States) as "fanatical" or something.
    if it talks like one, and looks like one.......

    Your grandma lived under Pinochet? You're Chilean? There were a lot of bloody dictators in SA.
    Still are. =(

    I'm venezuelan, but my grandma was from Chile, and lived under the regime of that madman and the zealots that supported him (yes, shockingly, dictators can rally frenzied crows of fanatics, who knew?)

    Today we live under a different madman surrounded by equally overzealous fanatics (Chavez) but that's something for another topic, and doesn't have anything to do with this, so I'll drop it.

    I'll just stop trying to argue with you, as I see I'm not about to make you change your stance, I said my piece, that what is being done to that man isn't right, nor fair, and with that, I take my leave.

    Before I do so, I'll remind you of one thing: You can take monkeys out of the jungle, but you can never take the jungle out of the monkey. Someone who is a killer, and enjoys killing will continue to be a killer. That man was a guard at a concentration camp against his will, and, had he been a killer, chances are he would had continue to do so after moving to a new place, but he chose to live an honest life, as a productive citizen, which speaks far more about him than about other former soldiers who go on to become mercenaries/terrorists/criminals.

    Let that sink in.

    Por que odiar si amar es mas dulce? (*^_^*)

  5. #245
    Mechagnome LolretKJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post
    Who you are or what you do is irrelevant, is it?



    Then why were you mentioning qualifications (which confers personal credentials) in the above quote? Cognitive dissonance much?

    Oh, and I'm not calling for anyone's blood either. I'm saying that he shouldn't be able to evade trial.
    Good god man, did you forget what you typed at the beginning of this post?
    You were totally out for his blood and JUSTICE OOORAH JUSTICE OOORAH MERIKA FUCK YEAH and now you're changing your statement to, "he shouldn't be able to dodge trial"
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    Oh would you now? It truly is amazing how many heroic people we have wasting their time on internet.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Derah View Post
    It is easier, however what you are doing is not a debate, its you shouting constantly "I'M RIGHT, AND YOU ARE WRONG. FOR JUSTICE!!!!" Over and over. Your comment on the nazi scientists cemented that you are blind to reason, and that, since your government allowed these MURDERERS IN, then, by your logic, they can't possibly have commited any fault, because if they did, then what your government did was wrong, and your government can never be wrong, therefore they werent, therefore those scientists were not bad people. See what I mean?



    if it talks like one, and looks like one.......



    Still are. =(

    I'm venezuelan, but my grandma was from Chile, and lived under the regime of that madman and the zealots that supported him (yes, shockingly, dictators can rally frenzied crows of fanatics, who knew?)

    Today we live under a different madman surrounded by equally overzealous fanatics (Chavez) but that's something for another topic, and doesn't have anything to do with this, so I'll drop it.

    I'll just stop trying to argue with you, as I see I'm not about to make you change your stance, I said my piece, that what is being done to that man isn't right, nor fair, and with that, I take my leave.

    Before I do so, I'll remind you of one thing: You can take monkeys out of the jungle, but you can never take the jungle out of the monkey. Someone who is a killer, and enjoys killing will continue to be a killer. That man was a guard at a concentration camp against his will, and, had he been a killer, chances are he would had continue to do so after moving to a new place, but he chose to live an honest life, as a productive citizen, which speaks far more about him than about other former soldiers who go on to become mercenaries/terrorists/criminals.

    Let that sink in.
    Well said.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post
    Who you are or what you do is irrelevant, is it?



    Then why were you mentioning qualifications (which confers personal credentials) in the above quote? Cognitive dissonance much?
    Again, I'm not judging him, because unlike you, I have an account of history from PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY LIVED IT. Contrary to what the U.S. government would have you believe, Hitler did not rally the people behind him to exterminate Jews until long after he'd been in power. My grandmother fled Germany with her parents due to the Nazi party coming to power. Hitler preyed on his people's fear, and painted a portrait of Germany as a victim in post-WWI Europe. And as has been pointed out to you NUMEROUS times, the Nazi's, upon realizing the scope of the war they were now fighting on 2 fronts, began strictly enforcing the serve or die policy, and it wasn't limited to soldiers, their families would often face retribution as well.

    EDIT: Also, I never claimed to be qualified to judge the man, nor have I made judgements for or against him. I relayed facts about the time period, as most other posters have done, but you refuse to even acknowledge the credibility of their statements because they don't mesh with your distorted personal views on the subject. You, on the other hand, have both judged him, and claimed that you are qualified to do so. I merely want you to explain to us why. You can't. Because you aren't.

    Tell me more about how I'm incapable of debate.
    Last edited by Priestiality; 2012-12-07 at 07:15 AM.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post
    ..... If I was in his boots (and forced to join the SS in 1939 or whenever he joined), I would have tried to liberate the camp myself or die trying. He did not. He traded his life for the life of thousands of people, thus he should face the consequences.[COLOR="red"]
    Says you from your comfortable chair ... You weren't there and you don't know how it was with the forced drafting .

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by epicsasxguy View Post
    >tries to justify america
    >MURICA nukes 2 japanese cities in ww2
    >MURICA killed thousands of kids in vietnam with Napalm bombs and code Orange

    worst part about it is that these soldiers who fought in Vietnam probs killed a lot more than a SS camp guard but the Vietnam soldiers are seen as war hero's.

    Love american logic.
    that's not american logic, it's "winner writes the history"
    how often do you hear stories about the warcrimes russia commited? almost never. just look it up and you'll see what i mean

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post
    All must answer of their crimes; if you commit a murder 60 years ago, you can still be charged for it today, so of course this man (who was at the very least an accessory to many murders 50 years ago) should be deported and charged for his crimes.

    There is no "forgiving" to be done here. Tough luck; should've thought twice before killing those innocent people, against your will or not.

    So its either you kill the person they have asked you to kill or be killed yourself?
    "Prepare for the unknown by studying how others in the past have coped with the unforeseeable and the unpredictable."
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

    General George S Patton

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post
    +1

    If the man truly regrets his past decisions, then that's between him and God (assuming he believes in God) or whatever deity (or lack thereof) he subscribes to.

    That shouldn't change the fact that justice must be delivered. JUSTICE
    Your kind of justice sounds a lot like vengeance.

  12. #252
    Banned This name sucks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypro View Post
    So its either you kill the person they have asked you to kill or be killed yourself?
    And then the other guy dies either way because another soldier will need to do it.

  13. #253
    He should be held responsible for what he did. I don't think age should matter in a case like this.
    He did what he did, You always have a choice i guess he chose the wrong one.

  14. #254
    The Insane Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waifu View Post
    He should be held responsible for what he did. I don't think age should matter in a case like this.
    He did what he did, You always have a choice i guess he chose the wrong one.

    Maybe if he wasn't forced. Yeah it's bad he did what he did, assuming he did that. However if he truly was forced we should take that into account.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waifu View Post
    He should be held responsible for what he did. I don't think age should matter in a case like this.
    He did what he did, You always have a choice i guess he chose the wrong one.
    You're like the 11th person to say this.

    Are people honestly this stupid to think you could just deny a direct order from a fucking nazi in 1940s germany

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Methanar View Post
    You're like the 11th person to say this.

    Are people honestly this stupid to think you could just deny a direct order from a fucking nazi in 1940s germany
    Basically, yes.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyopz View Post
    They were still dropped on military hubs; they were gravity-guided bombs, and they were released directly over military hubs. This is a documented fact for both Nagasaki and Hiroshima. I'm not saying it was justified, I'm stating that it's not analogous to a Nazi facilitating the murder of innocent people.
    It's a US documented fact and no fact that is man made has ever had the truth embellished, right?

  18. #258
    The Lightbringer Whitey's Avatar
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    If the guy was in Wehrmacht sure let him go, but SS? Daymn, makes for a whole bigger argument for deportation.
    I'm having mixed feelings about this, and definitely wouldn't want to be making the judgement on this one.
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  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron View Post
    Maybe if he wasn't forced. Yeah it's bad he did what he did, assuming he did that. However if he truly was forced we should take that into account.
    Well yes, But forced or not in the end you do still have a choice. I'm not saying i'm perfect maybe i would have done the same even ( I feel a bit weird saying that )
    But fear makes you do a lot of things you normally wouldn't do. But i guess i cannot help feeling that in the end it will always be up to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Methanar View Post
    You're like the 11th person to say this.

    Are people honestly this stupid to think you could just deny a direct order from a fucking nazi in 1940s germany
    You can always Deny can't you? You would probably die or be tortured yes. I never said it was easy, Just possible.
    Last edited by Riddles; 2012-12-07 at 07:27 AM.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Waifu View Post
    Well yes, But forced or not in the end you do still have a choice. I'm not saying i'm perfect maybe i would have done the same even ( I feel a bit weird saying that )
    But fear makes you do a lot of things you normally wouldn't do. But i guess i cannot help feeling that in the end it will always be up to you
    Yeah it's always up to you to choose to follow orders you may or may not agree with, or along with yourself, get your entire family killed for shaming Die Mutterland. It's easy to take the moral highroad in 2012 sitting in a comfortable chair in a home in a democratically "free" society. It's a whole different story when it can cost the lives of both yourself and everyone you love.
    Last edited by Priestiality; 2012-12-07 at 07:27 AM.

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