So if you're through with the raid content already

[DocQuantum]

Personally, I like "plowing through" the content (we're currently 10/16 heroic) - because once we get everything on farm, our raids go from ~16 hours a week to ~4... which, in turn, means I actually have time to do the "fun" stuff (e.g., pet battles, achievements, leveling alts).

[konway]

No, it's not doubtful, it's a fact.

Sure, if you ignore the fact that bosses are frequently nerfed after progression guilds spend 30+ hours wiping on them and Blizz realizes they're over-tuned. Heroic Zor'Lok anyone?

I'm not sure facts count as facts when you have to ignore other facts to support them. Maybe I'm wrong though...

[Dawnrage]

Is there really a point for this thread to be still be around? I don't see anything productive coming out of this.

[cyqu]

The people who clear content will spend less time raiding on one of there toons each tier then you will spend raiding on one of your toons.

[konway]

The people who clear content will spend less time raiding on one of there toons each tier then you will spend raiding on one of your toons.

Cyqu's Sentence hits Brain for 678,000 (Critical)
Brain has died.

[Kronik85]

Personally, I like "plowing through" the content (we're currently 10/16 heroic) - because once we get everything on farm, our raids go from ~16 hours a week to ~4... which, in turn, means I actually have time to do the "fun" stuff (e.g., pet battles, achievements, leveling alts).

Just to put this into perspective my guild raids 7 hours a week so if progress people are also raiding 16 hours a week and have been since release then you've already spent more time total in this tier than I ever will assuming 5.2 will hit in 2 months as slated by the front page. I'm not sure how far below my guild is on time spent raiding every week but I doubt it's more than 10 hours a week on average, so I'm not quite getting this whole "they spend less time total than you do" argument.

[Halaberiel]

Just to put this into perspective my guild raids 7 hours a week so if progress people are also raiding 16 hours a week and have been since release then you've already spent more time total in this tier than I ever will assuming 5.2 will hit in 2 months as slated by the front page. I'm not sure how far below my guild is on time spent raiding every week but I doubt it's more than 10 hours a week on average, so I'm not quite getting this whole "they spend less time total than you do" argument.

That argument doesn't work for guilds like his, or mine for that matter. I would only make that argument for guilds such as Paragon who clear content in less than 1 week. For us we raid a lot because we enjoy it, so why not? I don't have anything better to do.

[Dubalicious]

Just to put this into perspective my guild raids 7 hours a week so if progress people are also raiding 16 hours a week and have been since release then you've already spent more time total in this tier than I ever will assuming 5.2 will hit in 2 months as slated by the front page. I'm not sure how far below my guild is on time spent raiding every week but I doubt it's more than 10 hours a week on average, so I'm not quite getting this whole "they spend less time total than you do" argument.

Just for comparison's sake, what is your current progress, and do you expect to have completed Heroic content by the next content patch?

[Kronik85]

That argument doesn't work for guilds like his, or mine for that matter. I would only make that argument for guilds such as Paragon who clear content in less than 1 week. For us we raid a lot because we enjoy it, so why not? I don't have anything better to do.

Sorry if you thought I was taking a side swipe here. What works for some and all that jazz, I actually wish my guild would raid a lil harder but since I've been with them since ToC and there's people there who have raided together since BC then we just to do what it takes to keep them all raiding. The older you get the harder it is to find the time but that doesn't exactly mean we don't enjoy it as much.

Just for comparison's sake, what is your current progress, and do you expect to have complete Heroic content by the next content patch?

Hmmmmm, dunno. Probably not but I think we can get most of it. We are about 3 weeks behind in getting the wheels actually moving since the entire guild had quit in January and had been keeping in contact via FoTM MMO's so played some SWTOR/GW2/D3 etc. Came back and people just started coming out of the wood work left and right but we didn't hit the ground running. For our time spent raiding we get shit done, current progress is 6/6 5/6 0/4 with most things going down in >10 wipes with the obvious exceptions, Elegon/Garalon both took 30. We aint world beaters but people don't stand in fire and DPS/Heal/Tank competently.

Thinking bout the logistics over Xmas where we will hit massive down time it's unlikely we will start moving again until January-ish once shit breaks down round the 14th. I think we will certainly get the easier HC's in time and then it will depend on what people actually want to do.

So in short..... no I guess, unless 5.2 drops late. I mean we've never actually bothered to trying to do the super silly end bosses on hc anyway, will quite happily stop progress altogether once we get the easy stuff down. FL's for instance we never once pulled Raggy hc despite having everything else on farm one month in so if any of the bosses are meant to be silly hard then we wouldn't of bothered anyway.

[Anjerith]

I don't think so. It would mean you're expected to clear a 16 boss tier in 4 months. That's pretty much the largest tier ever, rivaled only by T7, which was absolutely trivial. And it'd become useless the day 5.2 hits, unless they figure some way to keep people playing old heroics. Which I doubt.

If that happens, it will be the repeat of ToC - release new instance too early, while lots of people still progress in previous one, killing old tier in the process.

Also, even if that was the case, it should be on PTR already - assuming it's not 5 boss instance and actually decent size raid.

Your basing this on your professional insight into the development process? What exactly makes you think that anything should be on the PTR "already"? The PTR, while a useful place to perfect fight strategies, is rarely used by players for anything else. Since it is a reasonable assumption that more content than just a raid will be in 5.2, they are likely working on that internally while their raid team works on the raid.

Anyway, a raid with no PTR would be the most magnificent raid yet, we'd see which Guilds really have what it takes to compete rather than which guilds can hammer the PTR into unconsciousness the quickest.

[ihatepeople]

Those top guilds spend two weeks or less raiding 14hrs a day and then spend the other 6months or so raiding 1-2 days a week for maybe 4hrs a night. The exception to this being Blood Legion I think who runs 5 of each raid, so that number might be a bit larger. But overall the top guilds raid way less than guilds who are progressing for 4 months. That being said, I still would not do the whole "bleeding progression" thing because I would get burnt out personally. Props to the guilds who do it though and succeed.

[Dubalicious]

current progress is 6/6 5/6 0/4

And this is Heroic progress correct?

That is quite impressive on a 7-hour/week schedule. I'm somewhat skeptical tbh, but I'll take your word for it (not sure others will though =p )

[Esubane]

Top notch guilds actually progress-raid the LEAST amount of time of all raiders. They get in, kill it, get out. Repeating something is infinitely easier than doing it first time, so their farm runs take 60-90 min after they clear everything. They also won't do farm runs forever too, just do couple of 5 mains + 20 alts groups to funnel BiS faster and they're done.

While casual player progresses at much slower pace, needs numerous evenings to kill one boss (even normals are challenging in this tier) and in total spends say 5-10 times more hours progressing through the content than leading guilds.

Current tier is huge, it has 16 normals + 16 hard modes to progress in, giving only 6 months for it is kinda wasteful to Blizzard resources. Same situation as Naxx 40-man. Hardly anyone even saw the final boss. Next tier always renders previous one obsolete, nobody will progress in heroic tier 14 when there will be tier 15 out with better gear rewards.

IMO for a FL or DS sized tier 4-5 months would be optimal but for huge tiers like this one it needs at least 8-10 months. Those 8-10 months of still meaningful difficulty of content, not oversized nerfs making 8/8 hc trivial to get. That's my opinion, if we had short, easy, overnerfed and generally shitty tier for 11 months then we now need good, difficult and fun tier for such time period too. I don't want tier 15 within 4 months (when maybe 3-5% of players will be 16/16 HC) that would be Firelands with just seven bosses and nothing to do for large amounts of time. We got a lot to do now, blizzard should use it.

[Dubalicious]

Top notch guilds actually progress-raid the LEAST amount of time of all raiders.

This is 100% false. There are more 'efficient' guilds than the "top" guilds. Essentially, there are guilds that clear content in fewer pulls/attempts/hours then the "top" guilds. Don't get me wrong, these guilds also have things on their side that "top" guilds don't - specifically those guilds strategies/videos/logs/encounter tunings/etc. and likely a little more gear. Oh, and they obviously aren't scoring world/region top 5 kills (at least it's quite unlikely)

Only arguing that little point =)

[PBitt]

I don't care how other people raid. I totally understand the drive to get world firsts and all that, it's just never been my cup of tea to really raid *that* hardcore nor am I quite good enough to do so anyways. The people that go for fast clears of everything know very well that once they burn out the content, that's it for a while. Doesn't really concern anyone else. Additionally, the faster they get full clears, the faster they can obtain BiS pieces and in this case have the 8 item level increase bonus on pretty much everything by the time the next raid tier goes live.

Myself, I just want to progress even a little bit every week with people that about my skill level, which is often not an easy thing to accomplish.

[Keoren]

I prefer to push the content in the beginning and then enjoy a relaxed period of 1-2 days of raiding a week during which I can focus more on things like my studies. I also think that the competition is the most fun part of raiding.

[ZeroAvix]

As has been said already, high tier guilds spent a lot of time at first, then hardly anytime after clearing. My guild right now is 19th US for 25 mans, and we have 1 boss in Heart of Fear, and then work on Terrace. After that, we'll clear everything on heroic in 1-2 days of raiding. Even right now we only raid 5 days a week, for 5 hours. It's not that bad since all I would normally be doing at that time is relaxing after work most of the time. Once progression is over, we clear on tuesday/wednesday, then I get all week to do whatever I want. After FL or DS progression I was only online maybe 5 hours a week in total.

It's really not that bad overall.

[Squirl]

And this is Heroic progress correct?

He doesn't even have H SG down. He linked his armory in another thread.

[fangless]

OP acts like guilds walk into a raiding tier saying we NEED to plow through this in 3 weeks.

You kill bosses as you do, some kill it faster than others. How is it their fault?

Also, why would you raid seriously at a slow pace? Are you purposely wiping to draw the content out?



The sooner you are getting the good gear, the longer you are obtaining it before the next raid, and better shot you have at succeeding. It's just that simple.

[PHsname]

Hey there, thanks for the answers.
I've read everything and there's one point I'd like to pick out in particular: hardcore raiders spend less overall time.
That's exactly what my "problem" with this playstyle is. This sounds like "I have to get done with it as fast as possible so I can enjoy other stuff". By spreading it out over a longer amount of time you can make sure that you have something to aim for for much longer.
I just don't understand why you would want to get to this point when there's no progression anymore as fast as possible.


I didn't really want to come across like this as I don't think that playing a game for a high amount of time has that much to do with being a pathetic loser in real life. Sure there are those who just play to escape reality but looking at most people I met in MMORPGs this only applies to 1% of them or even less.
I can understand where this stereotype is coming from (and that most "normal" people are thinking like that about gamers) but it's just not true.
Even with 7 days of raiding I'm sure there's enough time to lead a healthy social life, so that's not really the point.
Also: WoW is a hobby. I don't even know why it wouldn't be.


Oh please, that has to be one of the most overused phrases I've heard on the Internet in... well, I guess in like ever.

It's not a phrase. A phrase would be something like a saying, or some kind of local colloquialism. I described you with two words. I'm saying you're a judgmental dick and a condescending asshole. Do you understand more clearly now that I added some color to it?