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  1. #1
    Bloodsail Admiral Sturmbringe's Avatar
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    New Rogue PvP nerf: On use trinkets get 50% nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by Blizzard
    After reviewing the data and player feedback, we remain concerned that on-demand burst damage remains too high in PvP. After investigation, we determined that the on-use PvP trinkets are a major contributor to extremely high burst output. As a consequence, in the near future we will be applying hotfixes to smooth out the damage provided by these PvP trinkets. In the case of the Gladiator's Badges this means cutting the amount of primary stat or PvP Power provided, but also cutting their cooldown in half. For the Kor'kron and SI:7 manuals, the cooldown of those trinkets will remain unchanged, but the amount of stats provided will be reduced and the duration of the buff will be increased. The overall damage provided by these trinkets should not be affected; only the burst they are capable of providing.

    For example: The Dreadful Gladiator’s Badge of Victory will shortly provide 2553 Strength once every minute, instead of 5105 Strength every 2 minutes. Please note that due to limitations in hotfix technology, the item tooltips and buffs will still incorrectly display the original stat value of 5105.

    These are the trinkets that are currently slated for adjustment:
    Dreadful Gladiator's Badge of Conquest
    Dreadful Gladiator's Badge of Dominance
    Dreadful Gladiator's Badge of Victory
    Malevolent Gladiator's Badge of Conquest
    Malevolent Gladiator's Badge of Dominance
    Malevolent Gladiator's Badge of Victory
    SI:7 Operative's Manual
    Kor'kron Book of Hurting

    We are aware of the possibility that certain PvE trinkets could become more attractive for PvP in the wake of these hotfixes. While that is somewhat unlikely given that adopting those items would represent a significant loss of PvP Power and Resilience, we will nonetheless keep a close eye on the situation and make adjustments to the appropriate items if necessary. It is also possible that it could become too difficult to land reasonably consistent kills in PvP. If that proves to be the case, then we currently plan to increase the effects of the Battle Fatigue healing debuff to compensate, which is an adjustment that we’ve been considering for some time. On the other hand, if burst damage remains too high after these changes, we are prepared to take additional steps as needed.
    ^^The above means that OP classes/specs such as Warrior, Mage, Retardin and Shadow Priest will continue to have extreme burst, while classes that already had no burst at all, such as Rogues, will have to contend with 50% LESS burst than what little they used to have.

    So what happened is, Blizzard chose to nerf everyone instead of just nerfing FOTM classes/specs.

    The new nerf will probably get Rogue from 1-2% Arena/Rated BG representation to less than 1%. The class that used to be synonymous with "burst" once upon the time, now is the prime example of sustained DPS, thus making the class quite useless in PvP, where burst is king.

    Yet another great move by the pr0s at Blizzard.
    Last edited by Sturmbringe; 2012-12-07 at 02:50 PM.
    NINJA TURTLES as the next playable WoW race/class combo. WoW has got Kung Fu Pandas, Pokemon and recently even Transformers in it, so I don't see how Ninja Turtles would be any less pathetic than current "WoW" is.

  2. #2
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    why making another thread about this? its not aimed at rogues since all trinkets are getting nerfed, and rogs got somebuffs in 5.1 anyways, stop crying >.<

  3. #3
    This has literally nothing to do with rogues. Also consider Trinket is now useable on every shadow dance.

  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral Sturmbringe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluesftw View Post
    and rogs got somebuffs in 5.1 anyways, stop crying >.<
    You mean the buff where Kick went down to 10 energy from 15?
    NINJA TURTLES as the next playable WoW race/class combo. WoW has got Kung Fu Pandas, Pokemon and recently even Transformers in it, so I don't see how Ninja Turtles would be any less pathetic than current "WoW" is.

  5. #5
    Shadow priests have extreme burst? Lol wait what?

  6. #6
    This is a rogue buff, now you'll have on use trinket for every dance. It's also a small buff for mages as well because they'll have an on use trinket for almost every deep freese. RMP is now going to be one of the strongest comps in the game, but nope hurrdurr rogue nerfs.

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer turskanaattori's Avatar
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    Rogue exclusive nerf.

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Sturmbringe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammartime View Post
    This is a rogue buff, now you'll have on use trinket for every dance. It's also a small buff for mages as well because they'll have an on use trinket for almost every deep freese. RMP is now going to be one of the strongest comps in the game, but nope hurrdurr rogue nerfs.
    Almost nobody plays Subletly any more. Sub is about 20% less effective in PvP than Assassination. Even if they did, Rogue is the least mobile class in the game, and so they just get snared in every dance, which negates any advantage of the trinket.

    The fact remains that extremely bursty classes are almost unaffected by this change (Warriors, Mages), while Rogues who had no burst to speak of already get shafted. Case in point.
    NINJA TURTLES as the next playable WoW race/class combo. WoW has got Kung Fu Pandas, Pokemon and recently even Transformers in it, so I don't see how Ninja Turtles would be any less pathetic than current "WoW" is.

  9. #9
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
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    The fact remains that extremely bursty classes are almost unaffected by this change (Warriors, Mages), while Rogues who had no burst to speak of already get shafted. Case in point.
    Your logic is infallible.... except for the part where it makes no sense. Let's nerf every single on use trinket, for every single spec, then call it a nerf for Rogues but nobody else. Usually I would actually try to argue this out with you, but you just have no clue about this game and I feel it would be simply be wasted. This thread will now degenerate into 8+ pages of people telling you how much of an idiot you are for claiming this while you try to stick to your point and look stupid doing it.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 10:28 AM ----------

    Little hint though, half as much Strength or Intellect for your big burst as you previously had is a nerf no matter which way you slice it.

  10. #10
    on use trinket burst nerfed by 50% is your whole burst nerfed by 50%? i'm not good at math. but i can alrdy tell you that the nerf is not 50% of you burst dmg. every class got nerfed not only rogue. so its even.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmbringe View Post
    ^^The above means that OP classes/specs such as Warrior, Mage, Retardin and Shadow Priest will continue to have extreme burst, while classes that already had no burst at all, such as Rogues, will have to contend with 50% LESS burst than what little they used to have.

    So what happened is, Blizzard chose to nerf everyone instead of just nerfing FOTM classes/specs.

    The new nerf will probably get Rogue from 1-2% Arena/Rated BG representation to less than 1%. The class that used to be synonymous with "burst" once upon the time, now is the prime example of sustained DPS, thus making the class quite useless in PvP, where burst is king.

    Yet another great move by the pr0s at Blizzard.
    Please re-read what you quoted. "The overall damage provided by these trinkets should not be affected; only the burst they are capable of providing." Crying over nothing, typical rogue.
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    Oh would you now? It truly is amazing how many heroic people we have wasting their time on internet.

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral Sturmbringe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kildragon View Post
    Your logic is infallible.... except for the part where it makes no sense. Let's nerf every single on use trinket, for every single spec, then call it a nerf for Rogues but nobody else.
    ...

    I will try to put it plain English for such as you. Even you and the likes of you should be able to get it.

    1. Rogues had no burst to speak of. Nerfing what little burst they did have by 50% is quite huge.

    2. Warriors and Mages (for example) on the other had plenty of burst to begin with. Nerfing one of their trinkets by 50% won't affect them much, b/c they were OP to begin with (i.e. their classes inherently possesed a lot of extremely bursty abilities).

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 03:49 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post
    Please re-read what you quoted. "The overall damage provided by these trinkets should not be affected; only the burst they are capable of providing." Crying over nothing, typical rogue.
    Rogues have got almost no burst at all, yet they are good at sustained DPS. Nerfing their almost nonexistent burst by 50% while providing more sustained DPS isn't helping the class much in PvP. PvP is all about burst, not sustained DPS.

    What Blizzard did is nerf specs that had little burst by a large amount, while at the same time leaving Warriors and other OP classes run rampant b/c they have so much burst already that nerfing one of the trinkets they use hardly affects them at all.
    NINJA TURTLES as the next playable WoW race/class combo. WoW has got Kung Fu Pandas, Pokemon and recently even Transformers in it, so I don't see how Ninja Turtles would be any less pathetic than current "WoW" is.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post
    Please re-read what you quoted. "The overall damage provided by these trinkets should not be affected; only the burst they are capable of providing." Crying over nothing, typical rogue.
    It is a nerf, I don't play a rogue or PvP, but from PvE side I know that stacking buffs = higher damage output.

    If you use all your CDs to burst a target, now you get 50% less from the trinket. Shadow Blades and Vendetta are 3 and 2 min CDs, Vendetta lined up perfectly with PvP trinket, now the burst is nerfed.

    There is no way to take down a target as a Rogue with just a simple trinket proc, you need all CDs.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Kildragon View Post
    Your logic is infallible.... except for the part where it makes no sense. Let's nerf every single on use trinket, for every single spec, then call it a nerf for Rogues but nobody else. Usually I would actually try to argue this out with you, but you just have no clue about this game and I feel it would be simply be wasted. This thread will now degenerate into 8+ pages of people telling you how much of an idiot you are for claiming this while you try to stick to your point and look stupid doing it.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 10:28 AM ----------

    Little hint though, half as much Strength or Intellect for your big burst as you previously had is a nerf no matter which way you slice it.
    I'd like to play Devil's Advocate here, actually, and deviate from your predication of "8 pages of retard".
    - He didn't once claim this be a "rogue exclusive nerf" of any sort, that's all you putting words in his mouth
    - The point of "Baseline bursty classes affected to a lesser degree than stat-dependent bursty classes" is a valid one
    - The above happens to be the case for rogues

    It's no secret that rogues scale well with stats, and as such, on-use trinkets increase our burst by a fair margin. That being said, our burst this season/patch is already rather pathetic and any help we can get to increase the numbers on said burst is always welcome; Trinkets were one such help, but now to a diminished degree.

    The argument of this nerf hitting rogue-burst harder than, say, a Death Knight burst, is a valid one. Whether it's incredibly game changing or not is up for debate, I suppose, but there's nothing intrinsically wrong with the presented argument.

  15. #15
    Best. thread. ever.

  16. #16
    Brewmaster Phookah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kildragon View Post
    Your logic is infallible.... except for the part where it makes no sense. Let's nerf every single on use trinket, for every single spec, then call it a nerf for Rogues but nobody else. Usually I would actually try to argue this out with you, but you just have no clue about this game and I feel it would be simply be wasted. This thread will now degenerate into 8+ pages of people telling you how much of an idiot you are for claiming this while you try to stick to your point and look stupid doing it.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 10:28 AM ----------

    Little hint though, half as much Strength or Intellect for your big burst as you previously had is a nerf no matter which way you slice it.
    Yeah, you're right... Now that CD fueled TfB stacked Heroic strike will only hit for 280k instead of 300k.
    He wasn't saying no other classes are affected by it, he was saying it doesn't affect them as much.
    What do you get when you have ridiculous numbers and you get your trinket nerfed 50%? Slightly less ridiculous numbers?
    Now what do you get when you take a class that already had hardly any burst to speak of, and nerf the tiny amount of they do have....?

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 05:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post
    Please re-read what you quoted. "The overall damage provided by these trinkets should not be affected; only the burst they are capable of providing." Crying over nothing, typical rogue.
    Reading comprehension r gud 4 u
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    they'd have called the light gay, and plunged the universe back into darkness by squatting their nutsacks over it."

  17. #17
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    There are some points here, but I think the OP is overblowing things... a lot.

    Subtlety spec, (which I believe is still our most popular for PVP) gets an extra 30% agility. This would further increase the on use trinkets ability, and in effect gave us more benefit from this trinket. That's not to say that other classes could not derive some additional ways of benefiting from the trinkets (bonus to attack power among other things).

    Rogues need some buffs, that is true, but I think you're overstating how bad they are right now..

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammartime View Post
    This is a rogue buff, now you'll have on use trinket for every dance. It's also a small buff for mages as well because they'll have an on use trinket for almost every deep freese. RMP is now going to be one of the strongest comps in the game, but nope hurrdurr rogue nerfs.
    It's a nerf, as well as a buff. It used to be that human rogues could stack on use trinkets from separate seasons to have a trinket for every dance. Since the previous season's trinkets now suck, though, that wasn't an option. This brings the option back, but we will have less burst during Shadow Dance.

    Which is, utlimately, still a nerf. Sub rogues won't really do much sustained damage outside their burst window.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 06:11 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmbringe View Post
    Almost nobody plays Subletly any more. Sub is about 20% less effective in PvP than Assassination. Even if they did, Rogue is the least mobile class in the game, and so they just get snared in every dance, which negates any advantage of the trinket.
    I largely agree except that sub can be quite useful in larger format PvP when combining SD and Nerve Strike.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 06:12 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaderas View Post
    There are some points here, but I think the OP is overblowing things... a lot.

    Subtlety spec, (which I believe is still our most popular for PVP) gets an extra 30% agility. This would further increase the on use trinkets ability, and in effect gave us more benefit from this trinket. That's not to say that other classes could not derive some additional ways of benefiting from the trinkets (bonus to attack power among other things).

    Rogues need some buffs, that is true, but I think you're overstating how bad they are right now..
    It's kinda obvious you've no idea about the state of sub in pvp.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 06:13 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post
    Please re-read what you quoted. "The overall damage provided by these trinkets should not be affected; only the burst they are capable of providing." Crying over nothing, typical rogue.
    Do you even PvP?

  19. #19
    Are you people serious...? Rogue burst easily rivals rets, warriors and hunters. I've been dropped by a rogue through defensive stance, shield wall and second wind in under 3 seconds from 70%-0.

    Burst is NOT the problem with rogues. Mobility is. Retarded amount of set up is. Survivability MIGHT be. But NOT burst.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Are you people serious...? Rogue burst easily rivals rets, warriors and hunters. I've been dropped by a rogue through defensive stance, shield wall and second wind in under 3 seconds from 70%-0.

    Burst is NOT the problem with rogues. Mobility is. Retarded amount of set up is. Survivability MIGHT be. But NOT burst.
    If you have a person sit still and let the rogue do his thing he can do some really nice burst, yes. But even in a perfect scenario, it never rivals warrior/mage/hunter/ret burst. Rogues also need so much more set-up then others to do good damage.

    Also as you say our damage isnt the problem, mobility and survivability is. Rogue burst should never be as good as warrior/mage burst, and it never was besides of s11 where it was better then warriors burst. Rogues should have better mobility then a mage and warrior though, as the class description states. Giving us mobility would passively increase our survivability.
    Last edited by Imbashiethz; 2012-12-07 at 06:23 PM.

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