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  1. #1
    Banned sandmoth12's Avatar
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    Exclamation The Core Problem with World of Warcraft Currently

    World of Warcraft's classes, abilities, and content is continually evolving. This is to be expected because everything is subject to change over time; however, the problem is that the design philosophies that the game rests upon are not changing with the rest of the game. There is only one reason possible that design philosophies have not evolved with the rest of the game, and that reason is because the developers of World of Warcraft are simple too stubborn to admit that the old ideas that they are designing the game around are out of date.

    An example is pvp. Pvp requires different ways of balancing, and frequently runs contrary to pve resulting in neither side being happy. Pve favors more complicated rotations so that skill may stand out when scoring dps charts. Pvp favors slower and more simplistic rotations because in pvp a player must pay much more attention to utility abilities. Thus if the two different aspects of game (pve and pvp) share the same rotations, then either only one side will be happy or neither side will be happy.

    Another example of faulty design logic/philosophy is balancing pvp around 3v3. Balancing pvp around 3v3 is good for 3v3 only; furthermore, balancing pvp around 3v3 does not equate to good balance in 1v1, 2v2, 5v5, RBG's, and random BG's. The problem is that participants in 1v1, 2v2, 5v5, RBG's, and random BG's combined together far outweigh the participants in just 3v3 alone. This leads to a much larger portion of the player base being unhappy with class balance.

    I have given two good examples of flawed design logic/philosophy. Now I will explain the ways in which to fix these philosophies/logics so that they better fit the modern gaming platform. In the first example it is clear pvp rotations need to be separated from pve rotations. This may be done be the adding of a forth spec to every class that is strictly for pvp only. This spec would have a different rotation that is designed to fit pvp requirements rather than pve requirements.

    Next the view of balancing pvp strictly around 3v3 needs to change. Pvp must be balanced separately for each bracket. This means all spell effects must have different timers, damage, and diminishing returns for each bracket. There is no need to change every spell effect just how long the effect lasts, how much damage it does, and how many other abilities it shares diminishing returns with.

    I realize these design logics/philosophies require a lot of work. However, there is a monumental difference of outcome when you take the time to do things right the first time rather than do them quickly.

    I will not post a TLDR version; this thread is meant for players that are actually going to take the time to read closely and respond.
    Last edited by sandmoth12; 2012-12-07 at 07:07 PM.

  2. #2
    The TL;DR version is useful because you're lucky number 136,736 this month who has posted their sweeping ideas of why the games bad, and frankly it's repetitive and boring to read.

    Yeah you have some valid points, but really isn't there a moment in that post where you thought "Whats the point?"

    I don't know, I'll probably get a modslap for it, but while my post isn't particularly helpful of necessary - Neither is the OP.

  3. #3
    High Overlord OMGitsAzyure's Avatar
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    Having 1 dedicated PvP spec per class would never bring balance, unless that spec included, lets say for hybrid classes, a healing tree/tank tree/dps tree. The only way to achieve balance in PvP is to take away classes (in that case, see: First Person Shooter), because a rogue will always do less damage against a plate wearer vs a clothie, or a ret pally will always be able to heal thru disc priest damage. I agree that arenas are incredibly unbalanced, and have been for a while. But the point of PvP is skill and experience. Knowing and understanding the other classes you are fighting against, and knowing when you can and can not win, or how you can and can not win. PvE has bosses balanced around the class rotations, PvP is balanced around the other class specs. They are not balanced around the same thing, so im not sure its a design logic flaw. The point is you can give PvE'rs any spells, and balance NPCs around them. But you have to give PvP'ers certain spells and utilities that balance around each other.

  4. #4
    Banned sandmoth12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugdoctor View Post
    The TL;DR version is useful because you're lucky number 136,736 this month who has posted their sweeping ideas of why the games bad, and frankly it's repetitive and boring to read.

    Yeah you have some valid points, but really isn't there a moment in that post where you thought "Whats the point?"

    I don't know, I'll probably get a modslap for it, but while my post isn't particularly helpful of necessary - Neither is the OP.
    Then I do not care; I have did my part for game feedback. I have posted a thread explaining issues to the best of my ability with as correct grammar as I could. My job is finished.

  5. #5
    So your fix for PvP is to have each class only have one PvP spec and for spells to work differently depending on what bracket/BG?

  6. #6
    High Overlord Jaling's Avatar
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    Or maybe it's as simple as, you don't rock the core of a wildly successful product. It amazes me how many folks complain about this game and genuinely have no focus on the fact that it's a business, and a very profitable one at that. The people that run this business would be stupid to rock its foundation to cater to the whims of it's players. You'll say that if they don't there will be no business, but you're all still here aren't you? The people who have sustained this game (business) over the last 8 years aren't stupid.

  7. #7
    Mechagnome Dragore's Avatar
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    So you want Blizzard to force everyone to play 1 PvP spec instead of deciding for themselves. Not going to fly. It cannot see the possibility of balancing for all brackets. The game is to dynamic to do something like that. I'm more then happy with the progress that blizzard has taken in trying to create "balance" in the past 8 years.

    How is PvP the core problem in WoW?

  8. #8
    The core problem with World of Warcraft is the players themselves.

  9. #9
    High Overlord Jaling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ugum View Post
    The core problem with World of Warcraft is the players themselves.
    If I could <3 this comment, I would.

  10. #10
    Since when is PVP - a no one gives a shit minigame in wow - the CORE PROBLEM of WoW? roflmao

  11. #11
    I am starting to understand why Voldemort hated muggles so much.

    I have never seen anyone say they wanted less options and less game variety in my entire life. Its like saying, "I would like chess if there were only Pawns and queens, or monopoly with only 5 and 1 dollar bills."

  12. #12
    Pit Lord Doktor Faustus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ugum View Post
    The core problem with World of Warcraft is the players themselves.
    Indeed.

    And why is that? A core of over priveleged and vocal players who are basically selfish.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Ugum View Post
    The core problem with World of Warcraft is the players themselves.
    I agree with this 100%. The problem with everyone's "suggestions" is even if they were implemented you would still not be happy and say "It is not what my suggestion said".

    They could make spells have a PvE and PvP effect and even the players who want that all of a sudden would be against or have some complaint about it.

  14. #14
    The problem with wow is all the people complaining about problems in wow. A lot of older players enjoy mop over cata and wotlk and are looking forward to the new raids, as well as pvp environment, arenas is what got me into pvp and I love how every season isnt balanced and its constantly changing, I played a holy pally when they were shit easy to get glad on then I switched to resto sham and have gotten glad and now I might go back to pally or try a warrior, if blizz actually balanced it I would have been stuck playing a pally every season banging my face on the same 3 keys for 5 years, its the fact that its not balanced every couple months that makes it interesting and fun, and I dont know how people have trouble with RBGs, any class can easily get into top 100, maybe not top 10. I hope blizzard ignores the majority of complaints and continue to move forward with this expansion
    Last edited by zyrxy; 2012-12-07 at 07:34 PM.

  15. #15
    Stood in the Fire Yzyz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandmoth12 View Post
    Then I do not care; I have did my part for game feedback. I have posted a thread explaining issues to the best of my ability with as correct grammar as I could. My job is finished.
    Did you post this on the official forums? Because if you haven't, what have you really done to help? I know some blues with look on these forums time to time but it has a much higher chance to be caught and sent to the devs if it was on their forums.

    Amazing sig compliments of Mountandpetlover!

  16. #16
    Banned sandmoth12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I am starting to understand why Voldemort hated muggles so much.

    I have never seen anyone say they wanted less options and less game variety in my entire life. Its like saying, "I would like chess if there were only Pawns and queens, or monopoly with only 5 and 1 dollar bills."
    bet your butt I would quickly give up variety for more game balance and order.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 11:41 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Jalpwn View Post
    Or maybe it's as simple as, you don't rock the core of a wildly successful product. It amazes me how many folks complain about this game and genuinely have no focus on the fact that it's a business, and a very profitable one at that. The people that run this business would be stupid to rock its foundation to cater to the whims of it's players. You'll say that if they don't there will be no business, but you're all still here aren't you? The people who have sustained this game (business) over the last 8 years aren't stupid.
    If the game wants to continue to survive then it must change sooner or later. If our very own sun cannot last forever without changing, then i highly doubt wow can.

  17. #17
    The real prob is, people who have PvP'd for 5 months are facing people who have PvP'd for years. They know their class, have potions, got gemmed, have enchants, figured their rotations out for max DPS, know the maps blindfolded, and have everything keybinded. The person complaining does not. PvP takes things to a whole nother level. If you are not prepared to put in the time and money necessary to master it, you will always be the reason that "everyone" deserves a ribbon for trying. There used to be competition in the world, now it is gone. No more dodgeball in school. Everyone gets a ribbon for their effort.

    PvP is not for everyone, which is why I don't do it anymore.

  18. #18
    Pandaren Monk
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    The problem is the community that bitches, specially the ones who sometimes wants things worse. But the true one IMO is many people want vanilla,tbc,other xpac styles back but people need to realize its about time to move on, mmo's change,evolve,etc... Or they want to be that special snowflake that gets all the easy epics and no hardwork while sitting behind their chairs being no lifers.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by sandmoth12 View Post
    Then I do not care; I have did my part for game feedback. I have posted a thread explaining issues to the best of my ability with as correct grammar as I could. My job is finished.

    I told my cat my ideas on ending world hunger and shockingly the problem isn't solved, but I did all I should have to! This might not be the correct forum for actually trying to spark change as you see it is needed. The real issue is the fact that many ppl don't see issues that you do or want to solve them they way you might. Then you will have a group of ppl that will say that the real issue with WoW is all the current and ex players trying to find issues with WoW to justify why they don't or shouldn't play it as much.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
    "Not everything on the internet is true." -- Abraham Lincoln
    Good is the enemy of great.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by BeastmasterGuardian View Post
    The real prob is, people who have PvP'd for 5 months are facing people who have PvP'd for years. They know their class, have potions, got gemmed, have enchants, figured their rotations out for max DPS, know the maps blindfolded, and have everything keybinded. The person complaining does not. PvP takes things to a whole nother level. If you are not prepared to put in the time and money necessary to master it, you will always be the reason that "everyone" deserves a ribbon for trying. There used to be competition in the world, now it is gone. No more dodgeball in school. Everyone gets a ribbon for their effort.

    PvP is not for everyone, which is why I don't do it anymore.
    This! Agree 100% with this.

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