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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    You keep saying "in MY opinion" while saying things that you well know cannot stand up and all I can think of is Douglas Adams.

    “All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.”
    If you are arguing a Theological rejection of Gays being married you are taking the simpletons way out, which is neither sophisticated or supported in logic.
    There is no logic when faith is on the table.
    "If you want to control people, if you want to feed them a pack of lies and dominate them, keep them ignorant. For me, literacy means freedom." - LaVar Burton.

  2. #262
    Fluffy Kitten Callei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rawdude View Post
    Writings of a man who has been dead for thousands of years? Are you referring to the Bible? Because if you are, then you are sorely misinformed about the Bible, how it was written, and who wrote it. Gays are people. People have rights. They can be gay if they want and do what they want, I do not care, but there is no need for this giant push that is taking place right now.
    Leviticus was considered an extremist whackjob even by people of his time.

    Also, I'll skip the rest of your post and just quote myself:
    Quote Originally Posted by me
    Because we're tired of being second-class citizens based on who we fall in love with?

    Because we're sick of doctrine not even the Vatican follows anymore being used to justify oppression?

    Because we're sick of people telling us we shouldn't make others bear witness to our lifestyle while they believe we should be forced to live with their faith being made into the law of the land?

    Because America is not a theocracy and the Founding Fathers vocally opposed any religious doctrine being made the law of the land, to preserve freedom of religion for all?

    edit: How about being sick of reading in the news how gays and transgenders are beaten until needing emergency hospitalization and medical treatment because they're gay/transgender?

    How about feeling we shouldn't have to be 'quietly gay' while straights can run around making out in the street, get married and enjoy secular benefits we get denied, and don't have to live in fear of intolerance for their relationships?

    Or how about being sick of being told that if we simply buried who we were and lived a life that the people oppressing us advise us to live, just so they don't have to deal with society evolving beyond slope-browed, heavy-jawed, Me-Tarzan-You-Jane-ing constraints of the past, and in doing so actually enrich what it means to be a human being by climbing closer to the ideals Christ taught by loving thy neighbor, treating those around you as you would wish them to treat you, dining with sinners, and teaching not to judge others lest ye be judged by the Father, for judging is His purview and His alone?

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by rawdude View Post
    I'm not shoving anything down anyone's throat. This whole gay movement has rapidly increased in size and has become a very huge effort, would you not agree? Male and female has been the standard partnership forever basically. And now all of the sudden, gays are fighting and fighting to have that changed and rather, impose their beliefs and their orientation on us. Some will accept it, and some won't. There have been plenty gay people in the past. Like one poster said about Alexander. But you didn't see them having these huge movements and protests about something that has been around forever. Why not be gay in peace like people in the past have been (of course I know not 'total' peace, everyone is persecuted by someone whether it is because of their religion or other beliefs), instead of making a huge debate about it.
    Are you saying that this "let's let gay people get married" is an inconvenience to you because they are making "such a mess" to be treated equally? The reason to why they are fighting harder then ever before is because they can do that now, since it's not illegal to be gay anymore. The stereotypical heterosexual relationship is on it's way out as well, as the woman (who used to be more or less a servant) is taking her spot as well. Times are changing, the Bible is not. Just because something is written down in an old book, doesn't mean that it's the correct way to live. I personally believe that religion will have to take a step back and let common sense step in: everyone should be able to get married if they wanted to.

    I live here in Sweden and I think it's quite recent that same sex partners can get "married". Correct me if I'm wrong but before it was called something else, and you couldn't do it in a church. Even if I don't ever plan to get married, as I have enough trouble in my life as it is, I would love to see it be allowed in other countries as well.
    "He did this to 8 women, and only got shot once??"

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by LolretKJ View Post
    Using that argument back in the civil rights movement:

    Hey these black people are the same as us whites, I'm so tired of this Martin Luther King guy shoving this whole blacks are equal thing down our throats, I'm so sick and tired of it.
    I have a line in my mind, of what is right, and what is wrong. Again, it is purely my opinion of what I believe in. I believe all men are equal. No matter what the color of their skin is, or their gender.I have nothing against gays. I do have something against what they do (which is because of what I believe is morally right and wrong). They are people just like everyone else. Since they are people, they have every other right a person can enjoy. But why does the entire definition of marriage have to be changed to appease homosexuals? Why not be gay, and that be the end of it.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    Leviticus was considered an extremist whackjob even by people of his time.
    I wish we would just forget the old testimate or take it in fully and have some crazy times.
    My personal favorite from Leviticus:

    Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.
    Leviticus 19:28

    26 Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times. ( lawl)
    27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.


    Last edited by Tastyfish; 2012-12-08 at 06:52 PM.
    "If you want to control people, if you want to feed them a pack of lies and dominate them, keep them ignorant. For me, literacy means freedom." - LaVar Burton.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    No they aren't. You're feeling threatened over things that have precisely zero impact on you.
    I'm feeling threatened over nothing. I just do not like this sudden push for 'gay rights'. Gays are people. People have rights. Leave it at that. There is no need to go and change everything because you want to be with the same sex.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by rawdude View Post
    I have a line in my mind, of what is right, and what is wrong. Again, it is purely my opinion of what I believe in. I believe all men are equal. No matter what the color of their skin is, or their gender.I have nothing against gays. I do have something against what they do (which is because of what I believe is morally right and wrong). They are people just like everyone else. Since they are people, they have every other right a person can enjoy. But why does the entire definition of marriage have to be changed to appease homosexuals? Why not be gay, and that be the end of it.
    Why should marriage be taken and defined by the church, just to appease heterosexuals?

    The church did not and does not own the word "marriage", nor did it originate with churches.

    There are MANY rights for married people you don't get otherwise:

    http://www.nolo.com/legal-encycloped...its-30190.html

  8. #268
    Mechagnome LolretKJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rawdude View Post
    I'm not shoving anything down anyone's throat. This whole gay movement has rapidly increased in size and has become a very huge effort, would you not agree? Male and female has been the standard partnership forever basically. And now all of the sudden, gays are fighting and fighting to have that changed and rather, impose their beliefs and their orientation on us. Some will accept it, and some won't. There have been plenty gay people in the past. Like one poster said about Alexander. But you didn't see them having these huge movements and protests about something that has been around forever. Why not be gay in peace like people in the past have been (of course I know not 'total' peace, everyone is persecuted by someone whether it is because of their religion or other beliefs), instead of making a huge debate about it.
    Because for once in history, being gay won't have you burned at the stake by the mass populous.
    It's AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA for them to not be able to marry.
    It's like saying that the blacks needed to stop getting in people's faces about voting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    Oh would you now? It truly is amazing how many heroic people we have wasting their time on internet.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by rawdude View Post
    I have a line in my mind, of what is right, and what is wrong. Again, it is purely my opinion of what I believe in. I believe all men are equal. No matter what the color of their skin is, or their gender.I have nothing against gays. I do have something against what they do (which is because of what I believe is morally right and wrong). They are people just like everyone else. Since they are people, they have every other right a person can enjoy. But why does the entire definition of marriage have to be changed to appease homosexuals? Why not be gay, and that be the end of it.
    At the moment we appease anti-gaypeople, do you agree to that?
    You are not against them but you are not in favor of equality. That is how it is now.
    Seems like a double standard?
    Last edited by Bakis; 2012-12-08 at 06:53 PM.

  10. #270
    Fluffy Kitten Callei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rawdude View Post
    But why does the entire definition of marriage have to be changed to appease homosexuals? Why not be gay, and that be the end of it.
    Same reason the definition of what a person was was expanded to include freed slaves and women: just because marriage is used by Christian churches to define marriage as between a man and a woman, does not mean that is the only definition that word will ever have in the English language and in the secular use. In fact, people who get civil unions and don't go through a Christian ceremony still use the term 'Marriage' as a convenience of nomenclature, which, in English, is how a word gains a new definition in the Oxford English Dictionary (you know, the authority on the English language?).

    You could just as easily ask why all those blacks had to get uppity about equal rights during the Civil Rights movement. Why not just be black, and that be the end of it?

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by rawdude View Post
    I'm feeling threatened over nothing.
    I think we can all agree on that.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by rawdude View Post
    I'm feeling threatened over nothing. I just do not like this sudden push for 'gay rights'. Gays are people. People have rights. Leave it at that. There is no need to go and change everything because you want to be with the same sex.
    The point, for me anyway, is that homosexual couples don't enjoy the same economic status as heterosexual ones. You pay more to be a homosexual couple. Economic discrimination certainly isn't something a capitalist country like the US should be practicing.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by rawdude View Post
    I'm feeling threatened over nothing. I just do not like this sudden push for 'gay rights'. Gays are people. People have rights. Leave it at that. There is no need to go and change everything because you want to be with the same sex.
    But gay people don't have the same rights as others. That's... kind of the whole point. Their rights are being changed because they want to be with the same sex. You contradicted yourself within two sentences and a fragment.

    Also, the gay rights movement is hardly a new thing. It started in 1970. It's taken them 42 years to even get as far as people willing to discuss the issue of them getting married.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by caninepawprints View Post
    Homosexuality exists in over 400 species. Homophobia exists in only one.

    Allow homosexuals to get legally married. I see no valid argument against it.
    In fairness, that's biased because there is only one that is sentient, communicable and intelligent enough to grasp such concepts. If others had our intelligence...
    Quote Originally Posted by Lugo Moll View Post
    Consider this philosophical question: If Blizz fails, but noone is there to see it. Will there still be QQ?

  15. #275
    Fluffy Kitten Callei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rawdude View Post
    I'm feeling threatened over nothing. I just do not like this sudden push for 'gay rights'. Gays are people. People have rights. Leave it at that. There is no need to go and change everything because you want to be with the same sex.
    Again. We don't have the same rights, that's what this forty-two-year movement has been about:

    Quote Originally Posted by me
    Because we're tired of being second-class citizens based on who we fall in love with?

    Because we're sick of doctrine not even the Vatican follows anymore being used to justify oppression?

    Because we're sick of people telling us we shouldn't make others bear witness to our lifestyle while they believe we should be forced to live with their faith being made into the law of the land?

    Because America is not a theocracy and the Founding Fathers vocally opposed any religious doctrine being made the law of the land, to preserve freedom of religion for all?

    edit: How about being sick of reading in the news how gays and transgenders are beaten until needing emergency hospitalization and medical treatment because they're gay/transgender?

    How about feeling we shouldn't have to be 'quietly gay' while straights can run around making out in the street, get married and enjoy secular benefits we get denied, and don't have to live in fear of intolerance for their relationships?

    Or how about being sick of being told that if we simply buried who we were and lived a life that the people oppressing us advise us to live, just so they don't have to deal with society evolving beyond slope-browed, heavy-jawed, Me-Tarzan-You-Jane-ing constraints of the past, and in doing so actually enrich what it means to be a human being by climbing closer to the ideals Christ taught by loving thy neighbor, treating those around you as you would wish them to treat you, dining with sinners, and teaching not to judge others lest ye be judged by the Father, for judging is His purview and His alone?
    This is the reality of what gays and transgenders live with. Take your head out of the sand.

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by link4117 View Post
    The point, for me anyway, is that homosexual couples don't enjoy the same economic status as heterosexual ones. You pay more to be a homosexual couple. Economic discrimination certainly isn't something a capitalist country like the US should be practicing.

    OK let me put on a tinfoil hat for you guys for a sec.

    What if they choose to just abolish the actual perks of being married over letting gays get married?

    You all ready to be compelled in court to testify against your spouse?
    YOu don't think that is a MUCH MORE juicy apple to pluck then every other alternative? Removing rites, for more control over giving them?
    "If you want to control people, if you want to feed them a pack of lies and dominate them, keep them ignorant. For me, literacy means freedom." - LaVar Burton.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    Because we're tired of being second-class citizens based on who we fall in love with?

    Because we're sick of doctrine not even the Vatican follows anymore being used to justify oppression?

    Because we're sick of people telling us we shouldn't make others bear witness to our lifestyle while they believe we should be forced to live with their faith being made into the law of the land?

    Because America is not a theocracy and the Founding Fathers vocally opposed any religious doctrine being made the law of the land, to preserve freedom of religion for all?

    edit: How about being sick of reading in the news how gays and transgenders are beaten until needing emergency hospitalization and medical treatment because they're gay/transgender?

    How about feeling we shouldn't have to be 'quietly gay' while straights can run around making out in the street, get married and enjoy secular benefits we get denied, and don't have to live in fear of intolerance for their relationships?

    Or how about being sick of being told that if we simply buried who we were and lived a life that the people oppressing us advise us to live, just so they don't have to deal with society evolving beyond slope-browed, heavy-jawed, Me-Tarzan-You-Jane-ing constraints of the past, and in doing so actually enrich what it means to be a human being by climbing closer to the ideals Christ taught by loving thy neighbor, treating those around you as you would wish them to treat you, dining with sinners, and teaching not to judge others lest ye be judged by the Father, for judging is His purview and His alone?
    The Found Fathers did indeed oppose a certain religion from controlling the nation. Which is why they made the separation of church and state. So that government could not rule in church affairs, and so that the church could not control the government. Like the Roman Catholic Church did. However, they did use Biblical principles in their actions and scripture is found throughout the establishment and foundation of our nation.

    Also, why do you keep bringing the Vatican into play on this? Who honestly cares what the Vatican or the Pope says? Because someone with some power like the Pope said that he does not promote doctrine to oppress homosexuality, why do you use it to keep speaking out on this matter. Because quite honestly, what the Pope says, is rather irrelevant. He is just another person. And people are flawed.

    I do not judge anyone. I just do not agree with things that certain people do. I do not and I am not judging gays in any way. I am simply speaking out my opinion and beliefs on the subject.

  18. #278
    A few pages back someone said they'd rather abolish marriage altogether instead of having these little movements. At this point, I'd just about agree. Marriage has completely lost its meaning, especially considering the big fuss is over financial aspects. Next we'll have friends who aren't even romantically interested in each other getting married for those benefits, and nobody will think anything of it. I wonder how long it'll be before incest goes through this same movement, trying to force people to accept it as normal just because it happens. I feel bad for the next generation who won't have any sort of guidelines to live by except, don't kill people, and don't say anything that might come off as offensive or you'll be taken to court.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by moogogaipan View Post
    OK let me put on a tinfoil hat for you guys for a sec.

    What if they choose to just abolish the actual perks of being married over letting gays get married?

    You all ready to be compelled in court to testify against your spouse?
    YOu don't think that is a MUCH MORE juicy apple to pluck then every other alternative? Removing rites, for more control over giving them?
    What? If you read my other post I'm talking about why the supreme court should allow gay marriage. Economic discrimination has been ruled against by the Supreme Court historically. And, historically, the Supreme Court doesn't see an advantage to removing rights and would much rather give them. I don't understand where you're coming from or what you think I'm saying.

  20. #280
    The Lightbringer Vizardlorde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Symphonic View Post
    I think the government needs to stop calling ANY SINGLE UNION OF TWO PEOPLE marriage. How many problems would be solved if the word "marriage" was eliminated from government laws? Then, there is a true separation of church and state. Churches can call the joining of two people together marriage, but the state will only recognize it as a legalized, joint-union.
    churches should be calling it holy matrimony XD
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