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  1. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by Solzan Nemesis View Post
    This explains why my bible is full of hate.
    "The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully." - Richard Dawkins

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    That's because real Christians aren't out there justifying oppression and hate. Levites are. Satan comes bearing the cross and the goat comes in sheep's clothing. Nobody here is attacking Christianity. Every Sunday morning I go to a non-denominational church and have my time to speak with my God. The Bible says many things, and outright contradicts itself every time you read a new section written by someone else.

    We are, however, attacking the mindset that we must conform to societal norms from thousands of years ago written down by an extremist who was laughed at as the Ayn Rand of his day. We are attacking the mindset that society cannot evolve beyond heteronormative and male-dominated without giving up moral ground, when Christ himself preached tolerance, love, and acceptance, and who only once ever lost his temper--when there were people perverting the temple for secular use.
    The Bible does not contradict itself. People have such a twisted view on the Bible and many do not even know what it says. The Bible has been proven time and time again to be historically and scientifically accurate.

    I do not want to preach the Bible here.. But I will just give a few examples in order to prove my point.

    Leviticus 17: 11
    "For the life of the flesh is in the blood..."
    George Washington died from bloodletting. Bloodletting was a common practice a few hundred years ago. The Bible said it was the source of life hundreds and hundreds of years before it was proven to be true.

    Isaiah 41:22
    "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth..."
    Again, the earth was proven to be round hundreds of years after this was written.

    And for a historical reference.

    Deuteronomy 20:17
    "But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites..."
    Until the Hittite civilization was rediscovered in the 19th century, there was really no evidence of them having ever existed outside of the Bible. Skeptics used this to say that the Bible was historically inaccurate and could not be trusted. But, in the 19th and 20th centuries, the Hittite capital city of Hattusa ( which is modern day Boðazköy in northern Turkey) was discovered, and proved the Bible's historical accuracy.

    I think if people actually took the time to read and study and understand the Bible, their opinion on it might be changed. People have such an anti-Bible stance these days, and they don't even have a decent concept of it. Study it, then speak against it if you want. But people just hate any idea of religion, and call the Bible bollocks and discredit anything it says, even though it has been proven to be scientifically and historically accurate.

    Again, I am not imposing my religion on others, I was simply stating references to support my opinion.

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    Always something isnt it? You dont get 100% of what you want and its not good enough, yet you expect people to give 100%. There is something called a compromise, something the civil union created.
    No, it absolutely did not. Civil unions are still not recognized by many states, and not by the federal government at all.

    Even with a will, the inheritance is taxed to hell and back in a civil union. This tax does not exist for married heterosexual couples.

    Civil unions do not grant death-bed visitation rights that are afforded to heterosexual couples.

    I can poke holes in your half-assed argument all day, chadwix.

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  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    Always something isnt it? You dont get 100% of what you want and its not good enough, yet you expect people to give 100%. There is something called a compromise, something the civil union created.
    Because compromise has worked out so well when it comes to equal rights under the law.

  5. #425
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Nobody cares whether a church recognizes a marriage or not. Churches have no legal authority in this matter. They only have the authority to perform marriages. It's still the state that actually creates and controls the legally binding agreement, and churches have basically no control whatsoever.

    Nor is this a new thing. Marriage has always been a fundamentally legal construct, not a religious one.
    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...6124749AAN9VDi

    Its discrimination in places where gay marriage is legal, thus making it legal nation wide would force churches to marry gay couples.

    "Because compromise has worked out so well when it comes to equal rights under the law. "

    Im going to put you on ignore (joking) if you try to correlate lynching black people with not getting 75% off your dental because your partner does
    Last edited by chadwix; 2012-12-08 at 08:47 PM.

  6. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    Always something isnt it? You dont get 100% of what you want and its not good enough, yet you expect people to give 100%. There is something called a compromise, something the civil union created.
    I refuse to compromise on my rights as a human being and an American citizen. The fact that you think a compromise is good enough speaks more for your bigotry than anything you could ever put to text.

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  7. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...6124749AAN9VDi

    Its discrimination in places where gay marriage is legal, thus making it legal nation wide would force churches to marry gay couples.
    That's something that is up to judges, and is, in my opinion, utterly retarded, and violates the first amendment, and should be challenged.

    No sane person in favor of gay marriages wants to force churches that don't want to marry gay couples to perform them.

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  8. #428
    I hope they make the bans unconstitutional and legalize marriage regardless of sexual orientation. I hope the conservatives don't come up with some ridiculous reasoning why it should be banned.

  9. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    For example (if speaking US), you are in favor of not granting gay couples the same economic benefits as hetro people.
    Which is kinda odd since they pay the same tax as you no?
    Why shouldnt I get the same economic benefits as well. They are denied to me too simply because I chose not to get married and will never do so. I dont want to lose half of everything I own just because one day my wife decides she wants it and files for divorce to go to another man and eventually do the same thing to him.

    Why cant we dissolve all government benefits to marriage forever and let the people decide what marriage means to them. Im sick and tired of being screwed over financially by the government because I am not married and have no kids.

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by rawdude View Post
    The Bible has been proven time and time again to be historically and scientifically accurate.
    I think we've all been had. He's been going for 22 pages without making it too obvious, but he's finally slipped up.

  11. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by rawdude View Post
    so that they may know them,
    Bad Hebrew to English translation.

    וַיִּקְרְא֤וּ אֶל־ לֹוט֙ וַיֹּ֣אמְרוּ לֹ֔ו אַיֵּ֧ה הָאֲנָשִׁ֛ים אֲשֶׁר־ בָּ֥אוּ אֵלֶ֖יךָ הַלָּ֑יְלָה הֹוצִיאֵ֣ם אֵלֵ֔ינוּ וְנֵדְעָ֖ה אֹתָֽם׃

    called to lot and said where are the men who came about night out to may have אֹתָֽם׃ ('ō·ṯām)

    it is a word of accusation with no English meaning. Hebrew Scholars have found that word in many passages and it has been used for a lot of different meanings, if anything the closest word in English is the F word in the modern usage.

    So the modern English translation could be:

    "And they called to Lot, and said to him, Where are the men that came to your home tonight? bring them out to us, that we may f*** them up"

  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by rawdude View Post
    The Bible does not contradict itself. People have such a twisted view on the Bible and many do not even know what it says. The Bible has been proven time and time again to be historically and scientifically accurate.

    I do not want to preach the Bible here.. But I will just give a few examples in order to prove my point.

    Leviticus 17: 11
    "For the life of the flesh is in the blood..."
    George Washington died from bloodletting. Bloodletting was a common practice a few hundred years ago. The Bible said it was the source of life hundreds and hundreds of years before it was proven to be true.

    Isaiah 41:22
    "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth..."
    Again, the earth was proven to be round hundreds of years after this was written.

    And for a historical reference.

    Deuteronomy 20:17
    "But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites..."
    Until the Hittite civilization was rediscovered in the 19th century, there was really no evidence of them having ever existed outside of the Bible. Skeptics used this to say that the Bible was historically inaccurate and could not be trusted. But, in the 19th and 20th centuries, the Hittite capital city of Hattusa ( which is modern day Boðazköy in northern Turkey) was discovered, and proved the Bible's historical accuracy.

    I think if people actually took the time to read and study and understand the Bible, their opinion on it might be changed. People have such an anti-Bible stance these days, and they don't even have a decent concept of it. Study it, then speak against it if you want. But people just hate any idea of religion, and call the Bible bollocks and discredit anything it says, even though it has been proven to be scientifically and historically accurate.

    Again, I am not imposing my religion on others, I was simply stating references to support my opinion.
    not to burst your bubble but the bible was far from the first to say any of those things especially about blood since thats been a theme in EVERY religion and mythology
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
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  13. #433
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrysia View Post
    That's something that is up to judges, and is, in my opinion, utterly retarded, and violates the first amendment, and should be challenged.

    No sane person in favor of gay marriages wants to force churches that don't want to marry gay couples to perform them.
    No, its perfectly fine. Its discrimination at its core if this is legal. Churches dont pay taxes, i forget what that forces them to abide by, but it was something that made these cases a slam dunk in court.

  14. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrysia View Post
    That's something that is up to judges, and is, in my opinion, utterly retarded, and violates the first amendment, and should be challenged.

    No sane person in favor of gay marriages wants to force churches that don't want to marry gay couples to perform them.
    Also this. Churches are private organizations and thus should be free to refuse service to whomever they wish. Justices of the Peace, however, should be allowed to perform legally-binding marriages for gay couples (as well as those churches who willingly do so).

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

  15. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...6124749AAN9VDi

    Its discrimination in places where gay marriage is legal, thus making it legal nation wide would force churches to marry gay couples.
    I always go to Yahoo Answers for all my legal advice.

    That would get struck down if it ever made it to the Supreme Court.

  16. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Endus, I'm glad you're willing to focus on specific Biblical claims, because it's a useful thing for someone to do. I'm just not able to bring myself to argue about the Bible with anymore seriousness than I'd argue about the events chronicled in the Harry Potter tales.
    FWIW, while I'm a Deist myself, I was raised Anglican, Sunday School, everything. I've read the Bible multiple times, in multiple translations, and prior to college was debating joining the ministry. I've since moved more towards my current Deism, but that has more to do with expanding my religious horizons in the belief that multiple cultures and faiths' interpretations of the God concept are more likely each a flawed but valuable perspective, and coming to true understanding is more likely to require collating and comparing various traditions, rather than declaring one to be the "one true faith" and dismissing all others as garbage. I was close to minoring in theology during my undergrad.

    So I take great issue with people who make religious arguments, but who have clearly not even read their own holy texts, let alone the greater field of theological writings based on the original holy books. Statements like implying that Leviticus singled out "homosexuals" as abominations but not other stuff, for instance, are just mind-numbingly false; if you'd actually READ Leviticus rather than just flipping to the passage your pastor said "proves gays are evil", I wouldn't have to post to correct it.

    And I don't understand people who claim to be religious but haven't read the texts. It's like claiming to be a mathematician but not understanding how algebra works. You need that basic stuff to have any clue as to what you profess to believe. There's no excuse.

  17. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by LolretKJ View Post
    Because for once in history, being gay won't have you burned at the stake by the mass populous.
    It's AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA for them to not be able to marry.
    It's like saying that the blacks needed to stop getting in people's faces about voting.
    Once again, you cant make the comparison to racial discrimination. The race you are born which you cannot choose does not equal the sexual lifestyle you choose to engage in which you can decide. You want the same rights? then youre free to have them. Just choose someone of the opposite sex to marry.

  18. #438
    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    No, its perfectly fine. Its discrimination at its core if this is legal. Churches dont pay taxes, i forget what that forces them to abide by, but it was something that made these cases a slam dunk in court.
    Except the answer you linked is arguing on a false premise, that Churches are considered public property. They are not, they are private organizations, and thus have the right to restrict membership and services.

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  19. #439
    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    That would get struck down if it ever made it to the Supreme Court.
    I always go to mmo champ for my legal advice...

    "The fact that you think a compromise is good enough speaks more for your bigotry than anything you could ever put to text. "

    Only a matter of time before i was called a bigot (personal attack but poster wont be infracted) for disagreeing with their view. Thats how it works, there is no compromise when dealing with these types of people.

  20. #440
    Moderator Remilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...6124749AAN9VDi

    Its discrimination in places where gay marriage is legal, thus making it legal nation wide would force churches to marry gay couples.

    "Because compromise has worked out so well when it comes to equal rights under the law. "

    Im going to put you on ignore (joking) if you try to correlate lynching black people with not getting 75% off your dental because your partner does
    Yahoo answer, I love it.

    The 1st of the source is a misinterpretation of the law.
    His first fault was saying churches are public ground, which it is not.
    2nd source displays a case of someone just filing a charge, and this was the end result
    "We are most definitively a religious organization, our mission statement is to provide a place for spiritual birth, growth and renewal in a Christian seaside setting," said chief administrative officer Scott Hoffman. "We don’t think that by the way the rules are written now that churches are required by any stretch of the imagination to adhere to those policies, and we don’t think we are either."
    Nothing on bankrupting the church as I see.
    3rd source. Adoption != marriage.

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