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  1. #1

    Propecting Automation and AutoHotkey

    I know there have been many discussions here about this issue, but recently I came across this:

    http://stormspire.net/consortium-qua...itimately.html

    It provides a script for use with AutoHotkey that will attempt to prospect whenever there is movement on your mouse, and it would seem, according to that post and the thread associated with it, that it is fully allowed by Blizzard.

    I recently decided to start making gold again after doing so in Cata, after prospecting about 10 stacks I remembered how mind numbing it was and would like some input on using something like the above.

    Does anyone here have any experience doing what the article details?

  2. #2
    it's not automated, it follows the 1 hardware event per action blizzard enforces

  3. #3
    its a bot, if i hook up my wow bot to a pedometer its still a bot.

  4. #4
    You will need some kind of hardware action to not get banned. If all that does is allow you to bind something to mouse movement then go for it.

    I wouldn't trust it, though, just bind an action bar to mouse wheel up/down and put your prospecting macro there.

    Lastly, get a razor/Logitech keyboard. They come with programs that allow you to make an action that sends a "keystroke" repeatedly allowing "legal" afk'ing of prospecting/milling.

  5. #5
    Sorry for my wording, this is not an automated method, it requires hardware input to trigger an action, only I don't have to have WoW on focus while I do it, much in the same way a multiboxer would send actions to multiple instances of WoW, in fact it's almost identical, only I'm not playing WoW, I'm actually playing Call of Duty in another tab and my mouse movement in that game triggers my prospect macro in WoW.

  6. #6
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    as long as its not automated its fine
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  7. #7
    It isn't automated, it requires one action to be performed by the keyboard/mouse for one action to be done in game. It works in the exact same way all dual boxing programs do, and we know Blizzard allows those. It routes your keypress into a non active game window, but you still have to make that keypress - which means it is not automated. That said there's no real 'hey this is fine' from Blizzard any more so than there is endorsement with other dual boxing programs. I'd suggest looking up the Consortium Key Sender on the Consortium Forums, there's a longer discussion thread there, and it's essentially a modified version of Auto Hot Key that's been simplified a bit more and made a bit more useful for the goblin target audience there (it does do things like allow you to set which wow window you're routing in to easily, which I notice a comment on the AHK post saying it doesn't easily and so on, and there's no need for scripts etc). I don't bother with Auto Hot Key personally, but I do use the CKS. I've never heard of a ban associated with either, but obviously that's not decisive, they could decide that it's not and ban everyone tomorrow if they felt like it.

    fwiw personally I use it to mill/prospect and have used it for a long time. It is fantastic. I use a second account to mill/prospect in while I play on my main account. I routinely run through thousands of stacks of raw materials and would go completely insane without something like this. I've only ever used it for raw mats management activities, I know there's some discussion on using it with macros to do a bit more in the consortium threads but I've never pushed it that far, but what I do is basically exactly like dual boxing to me, which I'm sure Blizzard is fine with.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-08 at 08:07 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Regen View Post
    Lastly, get a razor/Logitech keyboard. They come with programs that allow you to make an action that sends a "keystroke" repeatedly allowing "legal" afk'ing of prospecting/milling.
    Actually that is considered automated (you aren't pushing the keystroke yourself each time), and is definitely against the TOS. There have been bans over the use of the G15 macro keys previously.
    Last edited by Windfury; 2012-12-08 at 08:20 AM.

  8. #8
    It does not need conscious interaction and it does not need wow in focus, definitely automation.
    I can write you a complete fishing bot that is operated by the same mechanic, why should that be any different ?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by A Ninja View Post
    I know there have been many discussions here about this issue, but recently I came across this:

    http://stormspire.net/consortium-qua...itimately.html

    It provides a script for use with AutoHotkey that will attempt to prospect whenever there is movement on your mouse, and it would seem, according to that post and the thread associated with it, that it is fully allowed by Blizzard.

    I recently decided to start making gold again after doing so in Cata, after prospecting about 10 stacks I remembered how mind numbing it was and would like some input on using something like the above.

    Does anyone here have any experience doing what the article details?
    I'm the original author of that thread by the way.

    It's 100% completely within the TOS/EULA. The script is there for you to see, nothing is hidden and anyone who can read it will tell you that it's not automating anything.

    It remains 1 manual user input = 1 keypress output which is what Blizzard allows.

    If you leave your computer, or take your hands off the mouse and keyboard, the keypresses immediately stop sending to World of Warcraft. Provide use input again and the keypresses will resume. In otherwords, take away the manual human input and the script will stop working, because if it didn't then that would be automation.

    You can also take a look at the Consortium Key Sender which is a more polished program that does the same thing. Sends a keypress to World of Warcraft whenever you perform a user input via your keyboard or mouse.

    You are welcome to make an account on The Consortium Forums and ask for yourself, the majority of the community there uses it and no one has been banned because it is allowed and within the rules.

    Moderator and contributor for The Consortium, a legitimate gold making discussion community that is also the home base for the TradeSkillMaster addon, and The Undermine Journal and WoWuction Web Applications.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane49 View Post
    It does not need conscious interaction and it does not need wow in focus, definitely automation.
    I can write you a complete fishing bot that is operated by the same mechanic, why should that be any different ?
    So answer this, how is dual boxing ok if this isn't? Because this is exactly the same. We all know dual boxing is fine, even though you're running multiple games and playing everything but the first copy with the game not in focus and having your key clicks routed in to the secondary game/s. The distinction that allows it and that Blizzard themselves has always made is that each individual action in the game has to occur in response to manual user input, not that each window something is happening in has to be the active one at the present second.
    Last edited by Windfury; 2012-12-08 at 08:28 AM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinshroud View Post
    I'm the original author of that thread by the way.

    It's 100% completely within the TOS/EULA. The script is there for you to see, nothing is hidden and anyone who can read it will tell you that it's not automating anything.

    It remains 1 manual user input = 1 keypress output which is what Blizzard allows.

    If you leave your computer, or take your hands off the mouse and keyboard, the keypresses immediately stop sending to World of Warcraft. Provide use input again and the keypresses will resume. In otherwords, take away the manual human input and the script will stop working, because if it didn't then that would be automation.

    You can also take a look at the Consortium Key Sender which is a more polished program that does the same thing. Sends a keypress to World of Warcraft whenever you perform a user input via your keyboard or mouse.

    You are welcome to make an account on The Consortium Forums and ask for yourself, the majority of the community there uses it and no one has been banned because it is allowed and within the rules.
    still fail to explain why this should be legal and a fishing bot not.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane49 View Post
    still fail to explain why this should be legal and a fishing bot not.
    Because it's not a fishing bot. I'm sorry if you cannot see that, but that's just the facts. It doesn't automate anything, it doesn't perform any keypresses without direct human input, it doesn't perform multiple outputs with a lesser amount of inputs, it maintains a 1:1 ratio of human input to keypress output.

    It's a free tool that we provide to make player's use experience better while staying within Blizzard's Terms of Use and End User License Agreement. You do not have to use it if you don't wish to

    Moderator and contributor for The Consortium, a legitimate gold making discussion community that is also the home base for the TradeSkillMaster addon, and The Undermine Journal and WoWuction Web Applications.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane49 View Post
    still fail to explain why this should be legal and a fishing bot not.
    Because a bot is not responding to manual input in its constant actions (I assume someone inputs what it's meant to be doing manually initially, but while it's actually running it is not acting on the basis of one input equates one action). A bot by definition sits there and performs functions on its own without any user input or with significantly less user input than one input per function, and it can continue to function with literally nobody at the keyboard.
    Last edited by Windfury; 2012-12-08 at 08:33 AM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Windfury View Post
    So answer this, how is dual boxing ok if this isn't? Because this is exactly the same. We all know dual boxing is fine, even though you're running multiple games and playing everything but the first copy with the game not in focus and having your key clicks routed in to the secondary game/s. The distinction that allows it and that Blizzard themselves has always made is that each individual action in the game has to occur in response to manual user input, not that each window something is happening in has to be the active one at the present second, which is what is occurring here.
    While dual boxing you are playing the game consciously, making decisions on what to do every keypress.
    With AHK the bot has a brain on its own, it translates random actions into whats sensible. Alot like the 1 button rotations or decursive from some time ago, where blizzard didnt ban anyone for it but did not approve and finally disable it

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-08 at 09:32 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Windfury View Post
    Because a bot is not responding to manual input in any way. A bot by definition sits there and performs functions on its own without any user input or with significantly less user input than one input per function.
    So if i hook up a GSM Pedometer to fish while i run a while thats not a bot ?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane49 View Post
    So if i hook up a GSM Pedometer to fish while i run a while thats not a bot ?
    As long as it was just casting 'Fishing' yeah I suppose it would be fine, by the way what is your deal with pedometers you can make it sound like you like running but it honestly sounds as though you are over compensating. The problem would occur when/if it was able to also catch the fish as well as that would be two abilities from one action.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane49 View Post
    While dual boxing you are playing the game consciously, making decisions on what to do every keypress.
    With AHK the bot has a brain on its own, it translates random actions into whats sensible. Alot like the 1 button rotations or decursive from some time ago, where blizzard didnt ban anyone for it but did not approve and finally disable it
    AHK is most commonly used in dual boxing btw, and no it doesn't decide what you're doing or what's sensible or make any choices, it just routes a keypress outside of a window into the game window. You need to set up the game so that the keypress actually does something, be that mill a stack of herbs or follow/assist a master toon. And you still need to press that keypress every single time you want the game to do whatever it is you've set it up to do.

    Again Blizzard is fine with dual boxing. They know it's happening, and have not done anything to disable it, so clearly they do see a distinction between that and decursive etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane49 View Post
    So if i hook up a GSM Pedometer to fish while i run a while thats not a bot ?
    Fishing requires a series of actions (move to a place, cast, target the bobber, click the bobber at the correct time), you can't automate a series of actions down to one single input, that actually is automation. If you could set it up somehow so that each individual action required in fishing was occurring in response to your input via the pedometre then it would not be automated would it? I'm having trouble seeing how that could be done though, as steady constant input via something like a pedometre would just have you casting then clicking at nothing and I know of no way to macro targeting the bobber and using it at the correct time, nor can I think of how you would correctly time the input using the method you've suggested.
    Last edited by Windfury; 2012-12-08 at 08:52 AM.

  17. #17
    I haven't used AHK, but i'm sure that CKS is allowed, since it requires human interaction with the PC (mouse/keyboard). You may call it anedoctical evidence, but i've been using CKS for the past year and a half without any issues.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane49 View Post
    So if i hook up a GSM Pedometer to fish while i run a while thats not a bot ?
    You clearly don't know what a bot is. Let me explain something to you, in many studies you get statements that are separated into two classifications: Normative Statements and Positive Statements.

    • A Positive Statement is objective, can be proven or dis-proven based on facts and definitions. A "bot" is software automation used to play and advance a character without human assistance.
    • A Normative Statement is subjective, based on what judgement and beliefs individuals carry. You believe that this is a bot, but that belief is being distorted by your own personal opinion and it is easily dis-proven using facts and definitions that state a bot is software automation used to play and advance a character without human assistance. Since this particular script/CKS require human assistance, this is therefore not a bot.

    Anyone can take a gun and show you how it can be dangerous and used illegally, but that's with conscious effort to disobey the law. The same is with this key sender. We use it within Blizzard's rules, if you want to try and take it to extreme examples then be my guest but I won't approve of it.

    What is relevant is that we are using it to transfer direct user input into the equivalent in game keypresses. We aren't trying to find loopholes or use it in a manner that is not allowed by Blizzard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane49 View Post
    While dual boxing you are playing the game consciously, making decisions on what to do every keypress.
    With AHK the bot has a brain on its own, it translates random actions into whats sensible.
    As Windfury stated above, again this statement is incorrect. When using CKS and AHK, we stipulate EXACTLY what a mouse input or a keyboard input will perform. I TELL IT that when I press A, it must press 1 ingame. I'm not pressing A and then it is analyzing the situation and performing what it thinks is best. It is doing EXACTLY what I tell it to. There is no decision making performed by it, it does not have a brain, it does not translate random actions into what's sensible. It only performs what I tell it to when I tell it to.
    Last edited by Sinshroud; 2012-12-08 at 08:52 AM.

    Moderator and contributor for The Consortium, a legitimate gold making discussion community that is also the home base for the TradeSkillMaster addon, and The Undermine Journal and WoWuction Web Applications.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeraxis View Post
    As long as it was just casting 'Fishing' yeah I suppose it would be fine, by the way what is your deal with pedometers you can make it sound like you like running but it honestly sounds as though you are over compensating. The problem would occur when/if it was able to also catch the fish as well as that would be two abilities from one action.
    I dont even run :P its just an effective way to generate kinetic hardware events unconsiously

    Quote Originally Posted by Windfury View Post
    Fishing requires a series of actions (move to a place, cast, target the bobber, click the bobber at the correct time), you can't automate a series of actions down to one single input, that actually is automation. If you could set it up somehow so that each individual action required in fishing was occurring in response to your input via the pedometre then it would not be automated would it? I'm having trouble seeing how that could be done though, as steady constant input via something like a pedometre would just have you casting then clicking at nothing and I know of no way to macro targeting the bobber and using it at the correct time.
    AHQ can easily execute sequences.

    The stance you guys are taking is that complexity makes a bot while mine is that something is not exempted from being against the tos because its simple.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-08 at 09:54 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinshroud View Post
    You clearly don't know what a bot is. Let me explain something to you, in many studies you get statements that are separated into two classifications: Normative Statements and Positive Statements.

    • A Positive Statement is objective, can be proven or dis-proven based on facts and definitions. A "bot" is software automation used to play and advance a character without human assistance.
    • A Normative Statement is subjective, based on what judgement and beliefs individuals carry. You believe that this is a bot, but that belief is being distorted by your own personal opinion and it is easily dis-proven using facts and definitions that state a bot is software automation used to play and advance a character without human assistance. Since this particular script/CKS require human assistance, this is therefore not a bot.

    Anyone can take a gun and show you how it can be dangerous and used illegally, but that's with conscious effort to disobey the law. The same is with this key sender. We use it within Blizzard's rules, if you want to try and take it to extreme examples then be my guest but I won't approve of it.

    What is relevant is that we are using it to transfer direct user input into the equivalent in game keypresses. We aren't trying to find loopholes or use it in a manner that is not allowed by Blizzard.
    You are using user input that is completely disjointed from the world of warcraft experience as a means to execute actions in game so you dont have to play the game on parts that you find tedious.
    Frequency of user interaction does not define a bot, people that use something like PQR for rotations are botters as well even though they mash a single button.
    Last edited by Kane49; 2012-12-08 at 08:58 AM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane49 View Post
    AHK can easily execute sequences.
    It CAN, but it DOESN'T.

    Complexity does not make a bot, nor does simplicity make it legal. What it DOES makes it legal. You can code AHK to press the button 1 every 2 seconds continuously in like 2 lines of code if you wish. Just because you can doesn't mean we do.

    Sorry but you are digging your own grave. Everything you have said so far is completely incorrect and based on your own personal belief. You haven't stated one single correct fact yet, and I feel I no longer need to try and defend this from you because your tunnel vision is distorting your ability to think rationally.

    Good luck.

    Moderator and contributor for The Consortium, a legitimate gold making discussion community that is also the home base for the TradeSkillMaster addon, and The Undermine Journal and WoWuction Web Applications.

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