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  1. #1

    Has Jaina become like Varian or Sylvanas?

    Although I know many disagree with me, the whole Theramore/Tides of War story has had me worried from the get-go, because I for one have always really liked Jaina for her peaceful & sympathetic nature.

    Blizzard has strongly advanced the theory that we would see her abandon her beliefs & become more of a warmonger-type who is focused on getting revenge on Garrosh (and that putting her in charge of the Kirin Tor was possibly a big mistake). I haven't read Tides of War, and I haven't heard much about the Kirin Tor saga in Patch 5.1, so I don't know if this has indeed happened. I'm going to find it hard to support Blizzard's story team if this is how they are going to "develop" characters like her.

    However, I have heard some reports that it's implied that Jaina really hasn't changed a lot, she's just even more emotionally scarred & holds a justified grudge against Garrosh (much like how Thrall hates Varian, but is very different from Garrosh). (Christie said she has a "very strong core" which makes her different from Garrosh, whatever that means).

    Christie also said in the interview that she felt that Jaina has found her true place in Azeroth. My Mom hasn't read Tides of War yet either, but she has gotten a strong impression from Christie's past novels & interviews that she really sympathizes with those lore figures who resent Varian & Garrosh's lack of compassion/Blood Knight attitudes...so she really doesn't think that Christie would say that if Jaina had abandoned her beliefs or was going to be portrayed in an antagonistic light in Mists.

    As far as I'm concerned, it's either an overhyped event, meaning that Tides of War details Jaina's response to grief (but ultimately she emerges with her compassion intact, even if she is traumatized & anti-Garrosh), or it's just flat out one of the worst decisions I've ever seen any franchise make about a single character's development. The second worst being the decision to make Garrosh Warchief in Cataclysm & in turn make all of the new Horde quests have much more of a "bully" feel to them.

  2. #2
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    The ironic thing here, is that Varian is the one who has mellowed out, he's become far more rational then he once was, and mostly I put that down to Anduin teaching a lesson to his father.

    Jaina has been warped into something else, the compassionate and steadfast Jaina we use to know has now become an erratic one, one who goes from talking about peace one minute, then wanting to go to war the next, back to hoping for peace, and turning on the war switch again. She's a mess.
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  3. #3
    Banned JhanZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    The ironic thing here, is that Varian is the one who has mellowed out, he's become far more rational then he once was, and mostly I put that down to Anduin teaching a lesson to his father.

    Jaina has been warped into something else, the compassionate and steadfast Jaina we use to know has now become an erratic one, one who goes from talking about peace one minute, then wanting to go to war the next, back to hoping for peace, and turning on the war switch again. She's a mess.
    She's insane!

    Well, not that I'm surprised. You're either with the Horde, or you're insane.

  4. #4
    Well, its not like Blizzard is known for consistency. The characters act however the plot needs them to act; Garrosh wasn't a psychopath in Cataclysm and now in MoP he's a tyrant for no real reason other than teh dramaz. Though I am kinda glad that Varian has cooled his jets and is being more rational than he used to be.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFrombaugh View Post
    (Christie said she has a "very strong core" which makes her different from Garrosh, whatever that means).
    well her "core" may not have shattered, but it does have so pretty big cracks in it right now
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  6. #6
    Bloodsail Admiral bayushisan's Avatar
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    Having read Tides of War I have to say that I understand Jaina's shift in personality. She wanted peace and to live in harmony with the Horde, the only problem was that Garrosh wants to crush everyone and everything under his heel and rule all of Kalimdor. With the destruction of Theramore Jaina was hit with the realization that everything she had worked for was dust, all the people she cared about were dead at the hands of the very person Thrall put in charge of the Horde. That's going to shake even the strongest of peace advocates.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by bayushisan View Post
    Having read Tides of War I have to say that I understand Jaina's shift in personality. She wanted peace and to live in harmony with the Horde, the only problem was that Garrosh wants to crush everyone and everything under his heel and rule all of Kalimdor. With the destruction of Theramore Jaina was hit with the realization that everything she had worked for was dust, all the people she cared about were dead at the hands of the very person Thrall put in charge of the Horde. That's going to shake even the strongest of peace advocates.
    To me, the issue is not about whether or not she's right to be angry at Garrosh, or that I don't understand why she's so shaken. It's more about what will come in-game after the destruction of Theramore, and what putting this character development in the game in the first place symbolizes in terms of Blizzard's story priorities.

    Take for example the Blood Elves. They had a similar traumatic experience with Silvermoon, but even so, I find them much less likeable as a race than say, the Silver Covenant, due to the fact of their arrogance & hatefulness - even if it is justified. In fact, I agree that Garrosh really is a psychopath and fully deserves any and all retribution he recieves, but if the Jaina I used to like is now going to act just as belligerent and hateful as Garrosh himself...

    Moreover, a lot of people have speculated that something else is going to happen, and Jaina ends up being responsible for Sha infestation. Despite any sympathy we may have for what she has gone through with Theramore, we have no choice but to stop her, or maybe even kill her, sometime between now and the Orgimmar raid.

    That's why I asked about Sylvanas. I think what worries me most of all is 1) a lot of people did feel the old Jaina was too softhearted, and 2) most of us wouldn't actually be THAT shocked to see Blizzard do a character development this arbitrary & sad!
    Last edited by JFrombaugh; 2012-12-08 at 01:03 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    The ironic thing here, is that Varian is the one who has mellowed out, he's become far more rational then he once was, and mostly I put that down to Anduin teaching a lesson to his father.

    Jaina has been warped into something else, the compassionate and steadfast Jaina we use to know has now become an erratic one, one who goes from talking about peace one minute, then wanting to go to war the next, back to hoping for peace, and turning on the war switch again. She's a mess.
    That's the problem I see. I would not care if she was more aggressive (which, given the circumstances is understandable), but her personality changes suddenly from quest to quest, which is worse than what happened to Garrosh (he at least changed from patch to patch).

    She and Sylvanas are in that "to-become-evil-and-die" list. Varian has just got out of it, but he may still die as a hero in the end.
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  9. #9
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Jaina has become a lot like her father, she herself never really lost something precious to the horde, unlike her father. Now we can see they are both very similar but not the same, since Jaina refuses to outright slaughter the people of the horde, though she is now very hateful and dangerous. But in no way can you compare her to Sylvanas.
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2012-12-08 at 01:09 PM.
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  10. #10
    TBH i cant wait till this all pans out

    I still say dalaran will go back to being neutral when this xpac ends but jaina i think will die during it

    Shes cracked and even as a hordie i say she has good reason to hate the horde im not sure even garrosh death will sate her hated for the horde

    at the end of the day if blizz wants to the end the conflict then like garrosh jaina needs to die i wouldve said varian needed to die also to ensure peace but they have retcon his character to a almost saint boyscout

  11. #11
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combooticus View Post
    TBH i cant wait till this all pans out

    I still say dalaran will go back to being neutral when this xpac ends but jaina i think will die during it

    Shes cracked and even as a hordie i say she has good reason to hate the horde im not sure even garrosh death will sate her hated for the horde

    at the end of the day if blizz wants to the end the conflict then like garrosh jaina needs to die i wouldve said varian needed to die also to ensure peace but they have retcon his character to a almost saint boyscout
    Dalaran has most of the time been an Alliance Kingdom, so let it stay Alliance. Simply update Silvermoon so it is the horde counterpart to Dalaran, though lore wise it is already. But a few members of the six should die, let Rommath have his vendetta against Modera and Ansirem to level the playing field.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Dalaran has most of the time been an Alliance Kingdom, so let it stay Alliance. Simply update Silvermoon so it is the horde counterpart to Dalaran, though lore wise it is already. But a few members of the six should die, let Rommath have his vendetta against Modera and Ansirem to level the playing field.
    That is true

    but tbh has dalaran been anything but a over glorified talking shop?

    They couldnt repulse arthas who killed antonidas they couldnt do shit against yogg saron if it wasnt for brann and us 'adventurers'

    I think people overestimate dalaran

    at the end of the day dalaran is a alliance of mages if you kick out the elves and others who are attached to the horde out of the kirin tor then you just left with a divided useless organisation imo
    Last edited by Sporebat; 2012-12-08 at 01:50 PM.

  13. #13
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combooticus View Post
    That is true

    but tbh has dalaran been anything but a over glorified talking shop?

    They couldnt repulse arthas who killed antonidas they couldnt do shit against yogg saron if it wasnt for brann and us 'adventurers

    I think people overestimate dalaran

    at the end of the day dalaran is a alliance of mages if you kick out the elves and others who are attached to the horde out of the kirin tor then you just left with a dividend useless organisation imo
    They certainly are powerful, they have also some very dangerous magical artifacts, the focusing Iris would be its newest addition and a good mage can level a city with it. Magi are incredibly powerful and dangerous, to quote Lothar "An ostler has a mood and he kicks the dog. A mage has his moods and a town disappears."

    Just Imagine what chaos the blood elves could cause if they would focus the power of the sunwell towards destruction, or the highborne use the new well of eternity in a similar fashion.
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2012-12-08 at 01:54 PM.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    They certainly are powerful, they have also some very dangerous magical artifacts, the focusing Iris would be its newest addition and a good mage can level a city with it. Magi are incredibly powerful and dangerous, to quote Lothar "An ostler has a mood and he kicks the dog. A mage has his moods and a town disappears."
    At the end of the day jaina cant rule a divided dalaran

    I certainly know what mages are capable of but if she kicked out at least half of the kirin tor then what is stopping the other half of making another organization

    The kirin tor is just a powerless talking shop no matter what they have possessed they have proved that countless times imo

    yes i know they have the iris now but we managed to steal the bell whats stopping us stealing that!
    Last edited by Sporebat; 2012-12-08 at 02:10 PM.

  15. #15
    So it's official. Blizzard has completely ruined one of the most compassionate characters in Azeroth.

    I don't know about anyone else but I'm going to save my money for Rift Storm Legion, at least their faction philosophy has gone in a better direction. I have no desire to fight for two factions that wage war out of spite & hubris, and see my characters as pawns to be manipulated. Either fight your war without any help from my characters or die in the attempt. Either way, Azeroth shall be rid of a nuisance.

    I don't think I've ever been so disappointed in Blizzard as I am right now...

  16. #16
    Herald of the Titans Geminiwolf's Avatar
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    I think she's more like Varian now. Sylvanas is what you would call a crazy, cynical bitch (still like her though). I think Jaina is just super pissed off at Garrosh right now and once he's dealt with, I think she will simmer down a little bit after seeing Thrall (or Go'el, whatever name they're going to use for him).

    To be honest I kind of like her new attitude towards the Horde, turns me on
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by bayushisan View Post
    Having read Tides of War I have to say that I understand Jaina's shift in personality. She wanted peace and to live in harmony with the Horde, the only problem was that Garrosh wants to crush everyone and everything under his heel and rule all of Kalimdor.
    I never got that in the first place. How can she want peace an to live in harmony with the Horde and at the same time launch an huge attack on the barrens?

  18. #18
    The Lightbringer Grym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargas View Post
    The characters act however the plot needs them to act; Garrosh wasn't a psychopath in Cataclysm and now in MoP he's a tyrant for no real reason other than teh dramaz.
    Power changes people (even IRL).

    In Cata Garrosh only just got the position, by the time MoP comes out, he started to getting used to the power, and abusing it.

    Most of the tyrant didn't start out as tyrants, they started off as justice-orientated warrior, won a war, became king, and years down the line slowly become tyrants.

  19. #19
    Bloodsail Admiral StaeleAilar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JhanZ View Post
    She's insane!

    Well, not that I'm surprised. You're either with the Horde, or you're insane.
    This is proven true through all of the lore >.> sad but VERY true.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by JFrombaugh View Post
    Although I know many disagree with me, the whole Theramore/Tides of War story has had me worried from the get-go, because I for one have always really liked Jaina for her peaceful & sympathetic nature.

    Blizzard has strongly advanced the theory that we would see her abandon her beliefs & become more of a warmonger-type who is focused on getting revenge on Garrosh (and that putting her in charge of the Kirin Tor was possibly a big mistake). I haven't read Tides of War, and I haven't heard much about the Kirin Tor saga in Patch 5.1, so I don't know if this has indeed happened. I'm going to find it hard to support Blizzard's story team if this is how they are going to "develop" characters like her.

    However, I have heard some reports that it's implied that Jaina really hasn't changed a lot, she's just even more emotionally scarred & holds a justified grudge against Garrosh (much like how Thrall hates Varian, but is very different from Garrosh). (Christie said she has a "very strong core" which makes her different from Garrosh, whatever that means).

    Christie also said in the interview that she felt that Jaina has found her true place in Azeroth. My Mom hasn't read Tides of War yet either, but she has gotten a strong impression from Christie's past novels & interviews that she really sympathizes with those lore figures who resent Varian & Garrosh's lack of compassion/Blood Knight attitudes...so she really doesn't think that Christie would say that if Jaina had abandoned her beliefs or was going to be portrayed in an antagonistic light in Mists.

    As far as I'm concerned, it's either an overhyped event, meaning that Tides of War details Jaina's response to grief (but ultimately she emerges with her compassion intact, even if she is traumatized & anti-Garrosh), or it's just flat out one of the worst decisions I've ever seen any franchise make about a single character's development. The second worst being the decision to make Garrosh Warchief in Cataclysm & in turn make all of the new Horde quests have much more of a "bully" feel to them.
    The book was hyped and all that ended was status quo. And Ally loosing Theramore forever.

    I hate the phrase Anti-garrosh. One, it doesn't make sense, and two, I can see the ending of the xpack a mile away. They pin all the war crimes on Garrosh alone, we kill him off, and BAM, Horde keeps their victories, washes their hands clean through Scapegoat Garrosh, and receive Thrall Christ back as their lord and savior.

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