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  1. #81
    High Overlord Elynis's Avatar
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    To the Youtube link with part of the Dalaran quest line

    1. Yay I finally got to see that part (school owns my soul so I'm not there yet)

    and

    2. I r /sadface 'cause Jaina's still in her ratty clothes from the Theramore event....GG BLIZZ!!

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Im a bit confused by what your saying?

    The Divine Bell was not in Jaina's possesion, the Alliance owned it.
    She didnt secure her own portals, thats what the Sunreavers exploited, she secured Darnassus against any magical interference or what not.
    The weapon I was referring to being the portals themselves.
    Last edited by delus; 2012-12-09 at 06:38 AM.

  3. #83
    Pandaren Monk Velshin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    Yeah, I've made peace with the fact that the rational-minded, noble, heroic Jaina of Warcraft 3 and onward is gone for good, replaced by another simplistic color-by-numbers warmonger. It's an absolute, damned shame because she used to be my favorite character, the one voice of reason in the Alliance, but just like with Tyrande grabbing the idiot ball in 5.1, she ended up thrown into the crazy pile to make way for Glorious Leader King Varian Wrynn, Best Thing Since Sliced Bread! (despite the fact that I find him about as engaging as mildly-burned toast)
    I understand your point..yes it's shame that we lost the rational noble Jaina of the old days.. but to be honest with you I can understand her too I mean in the end we are all humans not some kind of angels or machine..we have emotions and she lost just so much...everyone has his limits. The things she lost make even the strongest most patient person to even lose his sanity but she didn't not yet at least...

    let us say you are a fine calm rational person but then one day a bad guy destroys and make you lose your entire family, country, and your loved one all in one moment... will you be still the same person? will you able to think rationally? nope don't think so and even when everything is over and finally peace these scars and events will still affect you and haunt you forever..because they are in your memory... it's part of being human..it's our emotions sometimes it can be our strength and sometimes it can be our weakness.
    Last edited by Velshin; 2012-12-09 at 06:49 AM.

  4. #84
    i cant really understand how one can claim that a story decicion is wrong or fail or whatever and that it ruined a character.
    first of: her hometown got nuked, if thats not worse enough, with that single bomb shattered all she loved and believed in and realized its beyond point of return.
    its easy to say "she is strong she should not give in to grief and anger", but ask people that lost someone to a murder, they want justice no matter what and wouldnt care (if not secretly or openly prefer) for death penality even if its forbidden in their country. and thats not even close to what jaina is going through.

    i think she is maybe cold and determined, but she is going to use this determination to get rid of garrosh before another manabomb hits another alliance town

    also with the mists storyline consider: jaina has to fear the manabomb, hatred and anger for garrosh, doubt her beliefs..... if that wouldnt be easy going for the sha to twist her further i dont know what

    edit oh and now forgott second: second its blizzards damn own story and they can make with it what they want, and i rather see a liked character go through hell and change after such an impact as being all mary sue and shrug it off as nothing

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by beigemore View Post
    Jaina will eventually become the next Lich King... or Queen.
    sylvanas is already doing that.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    Yeah, I'm sure the Horde making grabby-hands at Darnassus and Exodar had nothing to do with it. The Horde's vision for Kalimdor can be plainly seen in Azshara. You really want to put up Camp Taurajo against all of Stonetalon, half of Ashenvale? I'm not even going to count the stuff Sylvanas has done. If any city "deserves" to be razed to a plate of magically imbued glass, it's Orgimmar. Too bad the Alliance don't play that.
    None of the places you mentioned are near Stormwind or Ironforge, the two prime Alliance capitals. Neither is the Horde encroaching on Alliance lands like it is vice versa.

    And please don't bring up Stonetalon, we all know that was an atrocity NOT at Garrosh's hand. And the general was dealt with. Ashenvale? I think the Night Elves were begging for it when they refused to allow Horde to get lumber when they were utterly resource starved largely due to a pacifist useless warchief (Thrall). Sylvanas has been a loose cannon since Cataclysm. Her motives are just for the Undead's own morals but not for the living. And Garrosh would put her down if he could. But he fears her.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
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  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    She was lending her powers to aid the Alliance. Aiding any side is the opposite of neutrality.
    It may not be direct military support, but it still is support.
    I asked for specifics, and you didn't give any.
    What specific non-neutral actions did Jaina take before the Sunreavers betrayed the Kirin Tor?
    Help control the population. Have your blood elf spayed or neutered.

  8. #88
    Honestly? Looking at past examples, I'd say she's a few patches away from being a raid boss.

    She's about where our good friends Illidan and Arthas were before WoW plummeted them to full on villainy.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by JFrombaugh View Post
    Although I know many disagree with me, the whole Theramore/Tides of War story has had me worried from the get-go, because I for one have always really liked Jaina for her peaceful & sympathetic nature.

    Blizzard has strongly advanced the theory that we would see her abandon her beliefs & become more of a warmonger-type who is focused on getting revenge on Garrosh (and that putting her in charge of the Kirin Tor was possibly a big mistake). I haven't read Tides of War, and I haven't heard much about the Kirin Tor saga in Patch 5.1, so I don't know if this has indeed happened. I'm going to find it hard to support Blizzard's story team if this is how they are going to "develop" characters like her.

    However, I have heard some reports that it's implied that Jaina really hasn't changed a lot, she's just even more emotionally scarred & holds a justified grudge against Garrosh (much like how Thrall hates Varian, but is very different from Garrosh). (Christie said she has a "very strong core" which makes her different from Garrosh, whatever that means).

    Christie also said in the interview that she felt that Jaina has found her true place in Azeroth. My Mom hasn't read Tides of War yet either, but she has gotten a strong impression from Christie's past novels & interviews that she really sympathizes with those lore figures who resent Varian & Garrosh's lack of compassion/Blood Knight attitudes...so she really doesn't think that Christie would say that if Jaina had abandoned her beliefs or was going to be portrayed in an antagonistic light in Mists.

    As far as I'm concerned, it's either an overhyped event, meaning that Tides of War details Jaina's response to grief (but ultimately she emerges with her compassion intact, even if she is traumatized & anti-Garrosh), or it's just flat out one of the worst decisions I've ever seen any franchise make about a single character's development. The second worst being the decision to make Garrosh Warchief in Cataclysm & in turn make all of the new Horde quests have much more of a "bully" feel to them.
    sorry i didnt get the memo but... when did thrall ever say he hated varian? last i heard varian and thrall were on pretty good terms (as much as any human who remembers the old horde can be) i mean varian offered thrall lumber from elwyn to try and stop fighting between the orcs and the night elves.

    hell i bet if thrall was a human he and varian would be best buddies i mean they both are orphans theyve both seen horrible things and theyve both been gladiators fighting for their lives

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-09 at 04:28 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Honestly? Looking at past examples, I'd say she's a few patches away from being a raid boss.

    She's about where our good friends Illidan and Arthas were before WoW plummeted them to full on villainy.
    come on illidan should not have been a villain neither should kael'thas pretty much all of bc lore is a huge pile of crap
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  10. #90
    The Patient Neonic's Avatar
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    you would go insane too if everyone you cared about was murdered. At least Kalec is there to help her on the battle field, and the bedroom...

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Garrosh being reasonable/listening to reason: Echoing Saurfang's words as he killed his psychotic general. Not killing Cairne on the spot when he called him out on a false claim.

    Either way, my point is that Jaina's decision to allow Alliance to invade to the very doorstep of two Horde capitals is what ignited the Horde v. Alliance conflict more than anything Garrosh had done until 5.1. Jaina deserved the bombing of Theramore and it was truly saddening to find out that she survived.
    You have a very vapid view of what being reasonable and listening to it means.

    Though there is part of me that agrees on the second half, I put it down to really poor story structure, that she allowed alliance to come though theramore to invade the barrens, and then wiped her hands of it like she had nothing to do with it. That I put down to the issue of blizzard writers not being on the same page as each other and addressing the lore issues together. There was nothing mentioned of her feelings of it in tides of war, and it tried to make it look like she wasn't at fault for it, yet all you need to is look at the road paving though duskwallow to the barrens and the theramore banners in the alliance forts there.
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  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by BrerBear View Post
    I asked for specifics, and you didn't give any.
    What specific non-neutral actions did Jaina take before the Sunreavers betrayed the Kirin Tor?
    Jaina locked down Darnassus and prevented anyone from sneaking or teleporting in from the outside.

  13. #93
    Really people, Dalaran =/= Jaina, she can be alliance and still have Dalaran as neutral. The sunreavers which are Dalaran mages used Dalaran resources to benifit the horde and invade an alliance city. Dalaran is still neutral otherwise iris bombs would be blowing up all the horde cities by now.

  14. #94
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nephlim View Post
    Really people, Dalaran =/= Jaina, she can be alliance and still have Dalaran as neutral. The sunreavers which are Dalaran mages used Dalaran resources to benifit the horde and invade an alliance city. Dalaran is still neutral otherwise iris bombs would be blowing up all the horde cities by now.
    Don't kid yourself. The sunreavers were the only link the horde had to dalaran, and with them none there is nothing neutral about it now. To be neutral a faction needs to be open to all, and the fact she pushes out the hordes only link to it and enforces the alliances link with it is just about card towards the alliances war against the horde.
    Where the sunreavers wrong for helping Garrosh and his schemes? Yes, but the rest of the horde has been sucked into Garrosh's insane warfair and it will have a reckoning at the end of mists when the horde rises against him and ends his rule. But the damage will still be there and dalaran will not just welcome the horde back in due to Jaina's now hatred of the horde.

    Her speech about using dalaran as a beacon for peace, was utter crap.
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  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrerBear View Post
    I asked for specifics, and you didn't give any.
    What specific non-neutral actions did Jaina take before the Sunreavers betrayed the Kirin Tor?
    she helped give protection to Darnassus, laid traps and what not, to protect it against Horde or any other outside infiltration

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-09 at 05:45 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Neonic View Post
    you would go insane too if everyone you cared about was murdered. At least Kalec is there to help her on the battle field, and the bedroom...
    release those passions in bed!!!!
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Don't kid yourself. The sunreavers were the only link the horde had to dalaran, and with them none there is nothing neutral about it now. To be neutral a faction needs to be open to all, and the fact she pushes out the hordes only link to it and enforces the alliances link with it is just about card towards the alliances war against the horde.
    Where the sunreavers wrong for helping Garrosh and his schemes? Yes, but the rest of the horde has been sucked into Garrosh's insane warfair and it will have a reckoning at the end of mists when the horde rises against him and ends his rule. But the damage will still be there and dalaran will not just welcome the horde back in due to Jaina's now hatred of the horde.

    Her speech about using dalaran as a beacon for peace, was utter crap.
    A neutral orginization expelled people that used the orginization for a factions own means. No shit? Once again it Dalaran wee alliance iris bombs would be dropping left and right. Learn the real world definition of a neutral orginization not the 14 year old "IT'S NOT FAIR THE WONT LET US HAVE IT TOO" definition. Until DALARAN uses its resources to fight the horde )not prevent atrocities) it it neutral. Jaina =/= Dalaran

  17. #97
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    I'm a little at odds with the OP's title.

    How on earth can you compare Jaina imprisoning an organisation (NOT going out and killing them in cold blood) which has traitors in it to a genocidal Undead Elf who employs necromancy, plague and damn near any other depraved method along with having next to moral qualms about slaughtering entire populaces along with ordering slavery.

    At this point I think the only people calling her a crazy Horde hating maniac are the people who haven't played or watched any of the interactions with Jaina, or simply completely misunderstood them.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-09 at 06:11 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    due to Jaina's now hatred of the horde.
    Tell me where it says she hates then.
    The Horde has proven to be hostile on every level to Dalaran. They planned and killed it's previous leader. Now they have used it's own resources and people to fuel it's war and use them to acquire a weapon that could create another Theramore.
    Her imprisoning them is a rational move by every account and not one fuelled by hatred. The Horde's actions have proven they are no ally of Dalaran and have no interest in the good of Azeroth or it's people.


    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Her speech about using dalaran as a beacon for peace, was utter crap.
    You're unhappy when she's angry and mistrusts the Horde.
    You're unhappy when she's more level headed and trusts the Horde.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2012-12-09 at 06:11 PM.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    How on earth can you compare Jaina imprisoning an organisation (NOT going out and killing them in cold blood) .
    Is that true?
    I remember in the voice files and what not, that the forced expulsion does not really go down with no violence.
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  19. #99
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Is that true?
    I remember in the voice files and what not, that the forced expulsion does not really go down with no violence.
    There is violence and I didn't say there wasn't any, however that was not what she aimed for or wanted.
    She told Aethas to get out peacefully due to his organisations actions and he refuses, so they're arrested and those that refuse to be put in chains are killed. Killing them was not her first option.
    She's in a situation where she cannot trust the Sunreavers, so allowing them to not become incarcerated puts Dalaran at risk.

    People are acting as if she's going on some murderous spree, except she isn't.

  20. #100
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Tell me where it says she hates then.
    The Horde has proven to be hostile on every level to Dalaran. They planned and killed it's previous leader. Now they have used it's own resources and people to fuel it's war and use them to acquire a weapon that could create another Theramore.
    Her imprisoning them is a rational move by every account and not one fuelled by hatred. The Horde's actions have proven they are no ally of Dalaran and have no interest in the good of Azeroth or it's people.
    Read between the lines. The ones who did so are following what Garrosh tells them for fear of what he will do if they don't. Every faction within the horde is held by the balls currently under Garrosh's hand, they act not out of wanting betrayal but fear.
    They used dalaran as a portal to darnassus, and it was Jaina who made it into an alliance thing, instead of cutting off dalaran from the war, she made it into an alliance issue. You honestly think all the sunreavers in dalaran wanted to be part of Garrosh's plan? She decided all were guilty instead of the few who did it. Her speech is meaningless.


    You're unhappy when she's angry and mistrusts the Horde.
    You're unhappy when she's more level headed and trusts the Horde.
    Wrong on the second one, I've always admired Jaina's stance on trying for peace even when you had idiots like Garrosh and Varian at each others throats. Her sudden forced change of character was done as nothing more then a way to vamp up Varian's character as being the level headed one.
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