Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
LastLast
  1. #21
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    SC, USA
    Posts
    2,130
    Also, while he outgears me, I crush him in haste, because I've always geared for frost.

    He was a fire mage, newly frost, has unideal stats. Or are they truly unideal? Have we been doing it all wrong?

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    Also, while he outgears me, I crush him in haste, because I've always geared for frost.

    He was a fire mage, newly frost, has unideal stats. Or are they truly unideal? Have we been doing it all wrong?
    Not trying to sound rude or anything here, but youre trying to compare yourself to one of the top mages in the world. You also have to take into account there are many many factors in a parse: Raid Comp (though that doesnt matter as much if you have all the buffs / debuffs covered), personal skill level, rng of the fight, effective cooldown stacking, an ideal perfect time to use alter time, ect.

    As stated, the glyph has a very minimal dps increase. A lot of people like it unglyphed for many reasons: a) it frees up a glyph slot (I myself like to use Water Ele, Evo, and Ice Lance), b) 20% more haste can be more desirable (specially if you choose invocation).

    Simply, he could have gotten really nice RNG, or you could just have gotten outplayed. Theres nothing wrong with either of them.

    PS: Can you link to 2 parses you were comparing?

  3. #23
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    SC, USA
    Posts
    2,130
    Quote Originally Posted by Demindar View Post
    Not trying to sound rude or anything here, but youre trying to compare yourself to one of the top mages in the world. You also have to take into account there are many many factors in a parse: Raid Comp (though that doesnt matter as much if you have all the buffs / debuffs covered), personal skill level, rng of the fight, effective cooldown stacking, an ideal perfect time to use alter time, ect.

    As stated, the glyph has a very minimal dps increase. A lot of people like it unglyphed for many reasons: a) it frees up a glyph slot (I myself like to use Water Ele, Evo, and Ice Lance), b) 20% more haste can be more desirable (specially if you choose invocation).

    Simply, he could have gotten really nice RNG, or you could just have gotten outplayed. Theres nothing wrong with either of them.

    PS: Can you link to 2 parses you were comparing?
    What is with everyone in this thread?

    My calculations are AKRAEN with icy veins glyph on Heroic Blade Lord. Then AKRAEN without icy veins glyph on Heroic Blade Lord. I should've never mentioned the Method mage because now everyone thinks I'm comparing my parse to his. I'm not. I'm saying he's the first mage I've ever seen to beat one of my parses using something so obviously big and different: no icy veins glyph.

    I've been a druid for 7 years. I'm new to mage. I don't think I'm the best. But up until the fire nerf I was one of the best frost mages. I still have a #1 Feng Heroic 25 parse. This isn't about horn tooting, it's about icy veins glyph.

    But anyway here are relevant parses:
    Kuznam Heroic Blade Lord 25: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/wfix3...?s=4985&e=5425
    Akraen Heroic Blade Lord 25: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-9j...=13520&e=13985

    And obviously I realize it's futile to compare the two. That's why I only did math with my own parse. I'm not about to comb through his logs in such detail that I could create a formula for him.

    Here's a much better performance out of me, single target (mostly, we do Feng properly and only AoE adds once):
    Akraen Heroic Feng 25: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-yc...&e=8310#Akraen
    And here's another mage on Heroic Feng 25, fight was just 2 seconds longer. He didn't have icy veins glyphed:
    Konnery Heroic Feng 25: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/sxez5...?s=1513&e=1909

  4. #24
    Damn you guys get fast kills on Feng, here's my rank 1 parse that's a minute longer (it's from quite a while back though, but I haven't been there much since):
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/t...?s=2479&e=2930


    Icy Veins glyph feels like a dps increase to me, I wouldn't know for sure because I'm too lazy to do maths.
    My gear is a bit lower itemlevel than yours (495) and I sadly don't have the sha gem yet :<


    Also have a rank 1 parse of Blade lord HC: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/9...?s=8366&e=8843
    Also with worse gear, still from november, gotten many upgrades since. Would love to see my DPS on these bosses now that I have 4 set.


    Long story short, I use Icy Veins glyph (have shit tons of haste so why not) and I'm getting pretty decent ranks for my itemlevel + it just feels like a DPS increase to me.
    Last edited by Gvstoned; 2012-12-08 at 10:43 PM.

  5. #25
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    SC, USA
    Posts
    2,130
    Yeah I had a lot of #1 ranks too until the european fire mages went frost :P

    We've both lost our ranks, Gvstoned, lol. So time to think outside the box.

    Oh also look at Shen, he's our tank... monk tank DPS is insane.

  6. #26
    Holy crap that is stupid DPS for a tank o.0

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    What is with everyone in this thread?

    My calculations are AKRAEN with icy veins glyph on Heroic Blade Lord. Then AKRAEN without icy veins glyph on Heroic Blade Lord. I should've never mentioned the Method mage because now everyone thinks I'm comparing my parse to his. I'm not. I'm saying he's the first mage I've ever seen to beat one of my parses using something so obviously big and different: no icy veins glyph.

    I've been a druid for 7 years. I'm new to mage. I don't think I'm the best. But up until the fire nerf I was one of the best frost mages. I still have a #1 Feng Heroic 25 parse. This isn't about horn tooting, it's about icy veins glyph.

    But anyway here are relevant parses:
    Kuznam Heroic Blade Lord 25: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/wfix3...?s=4985&e=5425
    Akraen Heroic Blade Lord 25: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-9j...=13520&e=13985

    And obviously I realize it's futile to compare the two. That's why I only did math with my own parse. I'm not about to comb through his logs in such detail that I could create a formula for him.

    Here's a much better performance out of me, single target (mostly, we do Feng properly and only AoE adds once):
    Akraen Heroic Feng 25: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-yc...&e=8310#Akraen
    And here's another mage on Heroic Feng 25, fight was just 2 seconds longer. He didn't have icy veins glyphed:
    Konnery Heroic Feng 25: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/sxez5...?s=1513&e=1909
    um......how did your FB only hit for 47.5k while his FB hits for 70k ish?? this is weird zzzzzz,

    either your weapon was broken or ur had fishing pole equiped?? or something bugged out
    http://oce.op.gg/summoner/userName=soulstrikes in oceanic now Lol

    5172-1206-0622 pokemon FC Lets Battle!!

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulstrike View Post
    um......how did your FB only hit for 47.5k while his FB hits for 70k ish?? this is weird zzzzzz,

    either your weapon was broken or ur had fishing pole equiped?? or something bugged out
    Because he used the Icy Veins glyph and the other mage didn't? Your Frostbolts hit 3 times less, but shoot 3 bolts at once, ofc Frostbolt would show lower avg dmg per bolt then.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Gvstoned View Post
    Because he used the Icy Veins glyph and the other mage didn't? Your Frostbolts hit 3 times less, but shoot 3 bolts at once, ofc Frostbolt would show lower avg dmg per bolt then.
    ah right forgot about that, but thats pretty crazy in terms of FB damage difference

    feels like wol didnt track 3 FB when IV was used??? no way method mage did x2 more FB damage than this guy
    http://oce.op.gg/summoner/userName=soulstrikes in oceanic now Lol

    5172-1206-0622 pokemon FC Lets Battle!!

  10. #30
    Akraen,

    I've been pondering the question you ask in this thread and I think that the mage in question might have exchanged IV glyph for FFB glyph, and casted FFB as his main nuke during IV and BL. Lining up trinkets/procs with IV/BL and casting FFB (glyphed) in that time as your main nuke instead of FB should be a DPS increase, no?

    Just had a look at the parse of Kuznam and he didn't cast that many FFBs and most were crits which brings me to think that above scenario is unlikely. So another possibility might be that he used fire blast glyph which activates nether tempest's secondary nuke immediately. It would make sense if he chose that so that he has one more thing to use for extra damage while on the move. Maybe he did that because he didn't have enough haste for IV glyph at the time? Not sure.
    Last edited by Kuur; 2012-12-09 at 10:52 PM. Reason: Added Fire Blast Glyph/Nether Tempest guess

  11. #31
    The difference comes down to:

    - 20% more bomb damage
    vs.
    - 20% more FoF procs on Frozen Orb
    - Not hitting GCD cap on non-frostbolt spells

    Generally bomb damage (ie. unglyphed) wins out until you're looking at over 10k haste.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Tickspoon View Post
    The difference comes down to:

    - 20% more bomb damage
    vs.
    - 20% more FoF procs on Frozen Orb
    - Not hitting GCD cap on non-frostbolt spells

    Generally bomb damage (ie. unglyphed) wins out until you're looking at over 10k haste.
    And you have what proof for that?, Not saying you're wrong or otherwise, but so much baseless information gets posted on these forums


    www.echoes-guild.eu Always Recruiting Exceptional Players! 8/8hc

  13. #33
    Bloodsail Admiral spaace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,112
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulstrike View Post
    ah right forgot about that, but thats pretty crazy in terms of FB damage difference

    feels like wol didnt track 3 FB when IV was used??? no way method mage did x2 more FB damage than this guy
    Wol DOES track them.. but not with your "normal" casts.. there's a whole new column for the split.
    3DS FC: 5172 - 0403 - 7277
    Pokemon Y Safari Steel Type (Feroseed, Forretess, Brozong)
    Bravely Default
    White Mage|XIV Stream

  14. #34
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    700
    Quote Originally Posted by Tickspoon View Post
    The difference comes down to:

    - 20% more bomb damage
    vs.
    - 20% more FoF procs on Frozen Orb
    - Not hitting GCD cap on non-frostbolt spells

    Generally bomb damage (ie. unglyphed) wins out until you're looking at over 10k haste.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicc View Post
    And you have what proof for that?, Not saying you're wrong or otherwise, but so much baseless information gets posted on these forums
    I forgot to mention it earlier but us older frost mages might still thinking about the old icy veins a bit where it was quite different. (only affecting frostbolt)

    Here's what I think is a more accurate comparison list:

    - 20% more bomb damage
    - Possible faster evocate
    vs.
    - Not hitting GCD cap on instant spells
    - 20% more damage from Frosbolt, Ice Lance, Frostfire Bolt and Waterbolt.
    - 20% more proc chance of FoF from Frostbolt

    I'm not sure where you got "20% more FoF procs on Frozen Orb" from I assume you just meant Frostbolt instead.

    As for proof I read the tooltips? And I know about the hidden 20% extra FoF chance from frostbolt.

    Feel free to add anything I missed.
    MB: Asus Maximus V Extreme CPU: [email protected] custom water loop GPU: Gigabyte GTX 680 RAM: Corsair 4x4GB 1600Mhz 7-8-8-24
    SSD: Samsung 830 256GB PSU: Corsair AX850 CASE: Corsair 800D
    Armory

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by jtmzac View Post
    I forgot to mention it earlier but us older frost mages might still thinking about the old icy veins a bit where it was quite different. (only affecting frostbolt)

    Here's what I think is a more accurate comparison list:

    - 20% more bomb damage
    - Possible faster evocate
    vs.
    - Not hitting GCD cap on instant spells
    - 20% more damage from Frosbolt, Ice Lance, Frostfire Bolt and Waterbolt.
    - 20% more proc chance of FoF from Frostbolt

    I'm not sure where you got "20% more FoF procs on Frozen Orb" from I assume you just meant Frostbolt instead.

    As for proof I read the tooltips? And I know about the hidden 20% extra FoF chance from frostbolt.

    Feel free to add anything I missed.
    20% more proc chance of FoF on Frostbolt would happen without the glyph due to the haste, as would 20% more BF procs.

    Instant cast spells are already GCD capped. The glyph would prevent Frostbolt from GCD capping during BL.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  16. #36
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    700
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    20% more proc chance of FoF on Frostbolt would happen without the glyph due to the haste, as would 20% more BF procs.

    Instant cast spells are already GCD capped. The glyph would prevent Frostbolt from GCD capping during BL.
    I'm note sure if you read it the right way so I made it more clear. I've taken to mind your comments as well and I've updated the comparison list again. Feel free to point out more errors

    Without glyph
    - 20% more bomb damage
    - 20% more BF procs
    - Possible faster evocate
    vs. with glyph
    - Not hitting GCD cap on instant spells
    - 20% more damage from Frosbolt, Ice Lance, Frostfire Bolt and Waterbolt.
    MB: Asus Maximus V Extreme CPU: [email protected] custom water loop GPU: Gigabyte GTX 680 RAM: Corsair 4x4GB 1600Mhz 7-8-8-24
    SSD: Samsung 830 256GB PSU: Corsair AX850 CASE: Corsair 800D
    Armory

  17. #37
    Warchief Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    The Frozen North
    Posts
    2,102
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Instant cast spells are already GCD capped. The glyph would prevent Frostbolt from GCD capping during BL.
    I don't think you understand. My GCD is 1.13, and drops down to 0.9444 with unglyphed IV, below GCD cap. I'm essentially wasting 7% of IV's 20% haste while casting instant cast spells. The glyph prevents that waste by offering a different type of increase.

  18. #38
    I forgot they hard capped the GCD at 1s.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  19. #39
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    700
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    I forgot they hard capped the GCD at 1s.
    Your not the only one who forgets :P

    Some classes would be rather op if it wasn't capped. I'm thinking 4.3 arcane with 0.5 second arcane blasts...
    MB: Asus Maximus V Extreme CPU: [email protected] custom water loop GPU: Gigabyte GTX 680 RAM: Corsair 4x4GB 1600Mhz 7-8-8-24
    SSD: Samsung 830 256GB PSU: Corsair AX850 CASE: Corsair 800D
    Armory

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    Also, while he outgears me, I crush him in haste, because I've always geared for frost.

    He was a fire mage, newly frost, has unideal stats. Or are they truly unideal? Have we been doing it all wrong?
    When comparing logs remember to check external buffs. Kuznan is getting rogue tricks for extra 15% damage now and then (~10% uptime).

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •