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  1. #21
    Mechagnome Punisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trink202 View Post
    I don't think they implemented that. He was just talking about a future that he envisioned where the game would be "free" but would be heavily monetized with microtransactions, like "you want to reload, that will be $1."
    It would be annoying as hell, I don't like F2P because of thoses microtransaction (not in SWTOR but in any F2P with cash store) Unlocking some optional features with money isn't a problem (like in TF2), but unlocking features that are essentials with money isn't a good buisness (in my opinion)

  2. #22
    Back in the good old days, when you had a game where you had to pay to unlock even the most basic features, we called that a demo.

    Just sayin'.

  3. #23
    The Lightbringer NatePsychotic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringthane View Post
    Back in the good old days, when you had a game where you had to pay to unlock even the most basic features, we called that a demo.

    Just sayin'.
    Yes, but F2P is not like a standard "Demo" or "Trial" because it doesn't stop at 20 like current P2P MMO's are doing, EA wanted to make SWTOR F2P so it can't really be considered a "Trial" like most MMO's have, because it continues onto Max level. I've never heard of this pay to unlock basic features back in the day, but I did play "Demo" video games where you had 2-5minutes of playtime or a certain length of a level until it ended and that was it. Even if this demo you speak of did exist at a point in time, that was the past, we're not living in that anymore it is now the future.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by trink202 View Post
    I don't think they implemented that. He was just talking about a future that he envisioned where the game would be "free" but would be heavily monetized with microtransactions, like "you want to reload, that will be $1."
    Wow this guy is seriously scum. BF titles usually cost what like $60? Sometimes less than that? I picked up AC3 for $40 on Black Friday myself. Now, how many times a day do you think a Battlefield player reloads in one sitting? 50? 100? Maybe more if they're as fanatical as CoD kids? This guy is basically advocating you pay for your game in its entirety, each and every time you play it. Sounds totally fair. "Millions in profits aren't enough guys, how can we rape the people we profit off even harder?"
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGravemind View Post
    If I was in his boots (and forced to join the SS in 1939 or whenever he joined), I would have tried to liberate the camp myself or die trying. He did not. He traded his life for the life of thousands of people, thus he should face the consequences
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    Oh would you now? It truly is amazing how many heroic people we have wasting their time on internet.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by NatePsychotic View Post
    Succeeded with doing something similar in SWTOR though, sadly.
    True. If I were a free player, I think that the cosmetic stuff like the hide helmet would make sense to me. The one that would make me mad is the medical probe restriction

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-09 at 01:25 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post
    Wow this guy is seriously scum. BF titles usually cost what like $60? Sometimes less than that? I picked up AC3 for $40 on Black Friday myself. Now, how many times a day do you think a Battlefield player reloads in one sitting? 50? 100? Maybe more if they're as fanatical as CoD kids? This guy is basically advocating you pay for your game in its entirety, each and every time you play it. Sounds totally fair. "Millions in profits aren't enough guys, how can we rape the people we profit off even harder?"
    Seriously. When I play FPS games, I am a chronic reloader. I would be broke by the end of the day.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by trink202 View Post
    Seriously. When I play FPS games, I am a chronic reloader. I would be broke by the end of the day.
    Well that's probably how they justify it I imagine. "Well, the game doesn't FORCE you to reload until the clip is empty. The player makes a choice to reload even if it means potentially running out of ammo in the middle of a fire fight."
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGravemind View Post
    If I was in his boots (and forced to join the SS in 1939 or whenever he joined), I would have tried to liberate the camp myself or die trying. He did not. He traded his life for the life of thousands of people, thus he should face the consequences
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    Oh would you now? It truly is amazing how many heroic people we have wasting their time on internet.

  7. #27
    The Lightbringer NatePsychotic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post
    Well that's probably how they justify it I imagine. "Well, the game doesn't FORCE you to reload until the clip is empty. The player makes a choice to reload even if it means potentially running out of ammo in the middle of a fire fight."
    It would make for smarter playstyle during a multiplayer match, being careful with how you choose to fire your weapon, there wouldn't be as much spraying that's for sure but it wouldn't be the way to go so I'm glad CoD isn't considering anything like it, couldn't care about BF.
    Last edited by NatePsychotic; 2012-12-09 at 06:44 PM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by NatePsychotic View Post

    This is what sickens me about F2p and B2P.

    They prey on the idiotic who can't do math and don't know the true value of things and kids with daddies credit card. It's an evil, greedy and dick move.

    Its especially amazing how so many gamers just back up this dick move explaining that it is a good move for the company. But its a bad move for YOU the player, even if they "invest back into the game" it's just gonna be to pull more dick moves and to make more money off of valueless junk like the flight suits they have in the cartel market.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by NatePsychotic View Post
    It would make for smarter playstyle during a multiplayer match, being careful with how you choose to fire your weapon, there wouldn't be as much spraying that's for sure but it wouldn't be the way to go so I'm glad CoD isn't considering anything like it.
    CoD and "smarter" are rarely, if ever, acceptable in the same sentence. Unless calling people a "faggot" and implying one slept with another players mother is a measure of intelligence. And you're kind of missing the point. For a long time microtransactions were taboo in the industry and weren't used often. At some point it became acceptable for companies to only offer parts of a game and hide the rest behind artificial restrictions that require more money just to be able to enjoy. Some companies aren't so bad about it, the "subscription" services offered by CoD and AC3 for example might be worth it eventually if the game gets enough DLC that the player wants to experience. Obviously the gentleman at EA is quite extreme, as he's advocating charging for basic features (which is exactly what SWTOR is doing). EA is not at all in bad shape. Re-releasing the same title over and over again ensures that. Madden sells huge numbers every year. FIFA might not be huge in the states, but world-wide it's one of the biggest sellers each and every year. Plus they have their share of the re-hashed shooter market with the Battlefield series. I could see him using microtransactions as a means of sustained income to support a small company, that's how Riot started, (Though they are owned by one of the largest companies in China now.), but he's the highest paid guy in, iirc, the #2 game company of 2012 based on sales. This guy is already cashing seven figure paychecks, any justification for microtransactions at the level he's calling for besides "I just want more money" is absolute bullshit.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGravemind View Post
    If I was in his boots (and forced to join the SS in 1939 or whenever he joined), I would have tried to liberate the camp myself or die trying. He did not. He traded his life for the life of thousands of people, thus he should face the consequences
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    Oh would you now? It truly is amazing how many heroic people we have wasting their time on internet.

  10. #30
    30% xp reduction is what turned me away. its not like its great and smooth fun in swtor to level - it can be quite painful. they had a chance to improve leveling with legacy but with single character 30% exploration xp bonus unlocks, they, in my opinion failed horribly. only reason that attracted me to swtor was leveling and story. and when it is a slight pain to do when subscriber it became total hell for me with the reduced xp. normally you could skip some planets and most of the bonus series or do them all and level on planet with level range 4-5 below your character level so leveling could be nice and smooth. but with f2p it is just a fucking nightmare.
    Last edited by Endus; Today at 10:40 PM. Reason: Editing to change questionable phrasing to adorable puppies

    Quote Originally Posted by xBreak View Post
    This post was almost as bad as you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakhar View Post
    The clueless commentary from the shortsighted peanut gallery is getting to me.
    My youtube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/Krystafal

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Argroth View Post
    This is what sickens me about F2p and B2P.

    They prey on the idiotic who can't do math and don't know the true value of things and kids with daddies credit card. It's an evil, greedy and dick move.

    Its especially amazing how so many gamers just back up this dick move explaining that it is a good move for the company. But its a bad move for YOU the player, even if they "invest back into the game" it's just gonna be to pull more dick moves and to make more money off of valueless junk like the flight suits they have in the cartel market.
    Don't mistake what an EA exec says to investors as the status quo for cash shops. Most cash shops are actually very fair to players.

    I'm happy to point out a number of F2P/freemium MMO's with fair cash shops if you'd like, because what he's talking about only exists within the most niche of niche F2P games, and in terrible mobile/social "games". You don't find it in big title MMO's, not even SWTOR approaches being as bad as what he says.

    And yes, executives say stupid shit like this to investors all the time, it's not uncommon. The good part is that things never go quite so far, as studio heads push back very hard when they know something as boneheaded as this will likely destroy a game.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naposim1337 View Post
    30% xp reduction is what turned me away. its not like its great and smooth fun in swtor to level - it can be quite painful. they had a chance to improve leveling with legacy but with single character 30% exploration xp bonus unlocks, they, in my opinion failed horribly. only reason that attracted me to swtor was leveling and story. and when it is a slight pain to do when subscriber it became total hell for me with the reduced xp. normally you could skip some planets and most of the bonus series or do them all and level on planet with level range 4-5 below your character level so leveling could be nice and smooth. but with f2p it is just a fucking nightmare.
    im not going to try and change your mind but i have to disagree with your opinion on leveling being a pain. i find the leveling in swtor to be just as easy as it is in any other mmo with the exception that the story is much much better.

    if you do the main story plot line on all the planets and some of the side quests in the hubs you should easily stay within a level or two of the minimum required level for each planet. if you do all of the side quests (not counting heroics) you will most likely stay within the recommended level of planets the entire trip to 50. if you do all of the heroics + side quests and the bonus series you will most likely be levels ahead. i havent done a single heroic or bonus series on my jedi consular and just landed on voss at level 46.

    to each their own, if you dont enjoy the f2p model thats fine. i will however disagree with just about any notion that its terrible. you can experience 2 different class stories for the low low price of nothing. the stories themselves are worth the price. im sure ill be chastised and labeled an EA supported but the f2p model, in my honest opinion, was for the most part created to get people to instead pay the $15 a month.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by dokilar View Post
    im not going to try and change your mind but i have to disagree with your opinion on leveling being a pain. i find the leveling in swtor to be just as easy as it is in any other mmo with the exception that the story is much much better.

    if you do the main story plot line on all the planets and some of the side quests in the hubs you should easily stay within a level or two of the minimum required level for each planet. if you do all of the side quests (not counting heroics) you will most likely stay within the recommended level of planets the entire trip to 50. if you do all of the heroics + side quests and the bonus series you will most likely be levels ahead. i havent done a single heroic or bonus series on my jedi consular and just landed on voss at level 46.

    to each their own, if you dont enjoy the f2p model thats fine. i will however disagree with just about any notion that its terrible. you can experience 2 different class stories for the low low price of nothing. the stories themselves are worth the price. im sure ill be chastised and labeled an EA supported but the f2p model, in my honest opinion, was for the most part created to get people to instead pay the $15 a month.
    Very few people have said the class stories weren't great. The biggest complaint that lead to loss of subscriptions in the first place was that once the class story ends, there's really not much to do. At all. Ilum was a joke on pretty much every server thanks to the huge amounts "lol being evil is kool" Sith kiddies. Raids were either stupid easy or waaaaay too hard depending on difficulty setting. PVP was a joke at the time. (One-shotted by Agents/Smugglers, anyone?) They spent all their time developing the 1-49 experience, not realizing that there would indeed be people at max level within the first 2 weeks of release, and they will want something to do, otherwise there's no reason for them to continue to play. I loved SWTOR during the leveling experience. I wish I could have kept loving it. I liked the combat system, I liked the PVP before it got stupid IMBA due to faction discrepancies and class-balance issues. I really wanted it to succeed, but the fact is, the product they gave us at launch deserved to fail.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGravemind View Post
    If I was in his boots (and forced to join the SS in 1939 or whenever he joined), I would have tried to liberate the camp myself or die trying. He did not. He traded his life for the life of thousands of people, thus he should face the consequences
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    Oh would you now? It truly is amazing how many heroic people we have wasting their time on internet.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by dokilar View Post
    im not going to try and change your mind but i have to disagree with your opinion on leveling being a pain. i find the leveling in swtor to be just as easy as it is in any other mmo with the exception that the story is much much better.

    if you do the main story plot line on all the planets and some of the side quests in the hubs you should easily stay within a level or two of the minimum required level for each planet. if you do all of the side quests (not counting heroics) you will most likely stay within the recommended level of planets the entire trip to 50. if you do all of the heroics + side quests and the bonus series you will most likely be levels ahead. i havent done a single heroic or bonus series on my jedi consular and just landed on voss at level 46.

    to each their own, if you dont enjoy the f2p model thats fine. i will however disagree with just about any notion that its terrible. you can experience 2 different class stories for the low low price of nothing. the stories themselves are worth the price. im sure ill be chastised and labeled an EA supported but the f2p model, in my honest opinion, was for the most part created to get people to instead pay the $15 a month.
    Yeah what they offer for free is very good that is true. Its just that i find leveling and doing quests (which i find only positive thing about the game) slow frustrating sometimes (companions have no regeneration at all, mounting or dismissing to call them with full hp, basically having to perform full class rotation on each enemy pack...). They were talking how its not heroic when in other MMOS you just fight 1 enemy at the time and shit like this but in the end i had couldnt even do my class quest on tatooine as JK where you had to fight elite sith marauders.
    Last edited by Endus; Today at 10:40 PM. Reason: Editing to change questionable phrasing to adorable puppies

    Quote Originally Posted by xBreak View Post
    This post was almost as bad as you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakhar View Post
    The clueless commentary from the shortsighted peanut gallery is getting to me.
    My youtube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/Krystafal

  15. #35
    I wasted few hours re downloading and installing SWTOR for this free to play and sadly it took me 30 minutes to log out and leave it eat some more dust again ,
    as much as i love Star wars itself , i don't like this game , i dunno why :S
    (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻,

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post
    Well that's probably how they justify it I imagine. "Well, the game doesn't FORCE you to reload until the clip is empty. The player makes a choice to reload even if it means potentially running out of ammo in the middle of a fire fight."
    Thats how fanboys are justifying any F2P game that has unlockables for money.

    Its a greedy stance from the developer point of view and a stupid stance as a customer to support something like that that only disadvantages players.

  17. #37
    I'm happy to point out a number of F2P/freemium MMO's with fair cash shops if you'd like, because what he's talking about only exists within the most niche of niche F2P games, and in terrible mobile/social "games". You don't find it in big title MMO's, not even SWTOR approaches being as bad as what he says.
    Actually, it really does with the limit on medical probes. The game is nothing but corridors filled with enemies that are difficult, if not impossible, to evade if one isn't playing a stealth class. Unlike WoW, where there's no on-site rez but enemies are bypassable in ghost form, not having medical probes can mean the loss of a significant chunk of time as one has to fight through respawns just to return to where one died.

    So the rationale for charging for medical probes is the exact same one used to justify charging for reloads in that quote.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    But lets not forget that the f2p players only get to experience anything outside of questing a few times a week unless they pay for week pass's.

    Also it was already prove if they did decide to pay for week pass's that it would in the end cost more then subbing to the game. This prove's that EA is trying to make F2p player feel like they need to sub to do anything outside of questing.

    Also it says f2p players will be able to do there class storys up to level 50. What happens once they rase the level cap like they plan to will F2p players get that or be stuck with buying some useless level cap remove token for there toon.
    It's no secret that you have to pay to level your toon past initial cap in many F2P games. If not, why are they charging for expansions? Using that as an argument is silly. Also, you can purchase, with credits, weekly passes to WZs, Ops, and FPs. Meaning you don't have to pay a cent in order to experience them. It all depends on the community. From what I've heard and seen, you can buy, with credits, the majority of your unlocks at max level.

    As responding to Kitty's post that you quoted, yes all players CAN experience it. Unfortunately RNG may play a factor in whether all players WILL experience it. Something TOR needs to fix is the inability to choose which WZs you want to participate in.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-10 at 12:37 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Naposim1337 View Post
    Yeah what they offer for free is very good that is true. Its just that i find leveling and doing quests (which i find only positive thing about the game) slow frustrating sometimes (companions have no regeneration at all, mounting or dismissing to call them with full hp, basically having to perform full class rotation on each enemy pack...). They were talking how its not heroic when in other MMOS you just fight 1 enemy at the time and shit like this but in the end i had couldnt even do my class quest on tatooine as JK where you had to fight elite sith marauders.
    You should be able to kill those mobs. The only quest that was completely overtuned for JK was on Quesh. You had to interrupt the guy, but it was impossible to continue interrupting with only 1 interrupt at your disposal.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post
    Well that's probably how they justify it I imagine. "Well, the game doesn't FORCE you to reload until the clip is empty. The player makes a choice to reload even if it means potentially running out of ammo in the middle of a fire fight."
    Hahaha that is excellent. I actually played some BF3 (and sucked), and I usually picked whatever "class" it was (support?) that chucks down ammo just cause I'm a frantic reloader myself. But that's the thing right, according to a proper liberal economy, EVERYTHING is your choice. Even if in reality it really isn't, like in the ammo case. You can't possibly counter the argument that reloading is your choice, because well, basically it IS, but in practice, turns out you really will feel forced to. Those commercials where "YOUR CHOICE" is really emphasized make me feel anywhere between amused and annoyed, for the same reason as in the excellent poster I just quoted.

  20. #40
    League of Legends are about the only ones who did F2P right. Where you can unlock everything free but pay if you want things faster.
    If you're losing an argument, insult their grammar/spelling.

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