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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Bolverk View Post
    This 100%
    One guy recently stated that he would spit on the developers for coming up with a free to play model as bad as this and any customer who supported it....WHAT!?!?! I find it hilarious and sad in equal measures that people can get so worked up over a computer game, I don't know whether to envy or pity them. For them to get so worked up over a computer game they obviously haven't been kicked in the nads enough by life to put it all well into perspective and for that I envy them, but I also pity them for having such empty lives that a computer game means so much.
    These people are passionate about something. Sometimes that passion manifests itself a bit too negatively (see: Death/suicide threats about Bayonetta 2 on Wii U as an exclusive), but the fact that what they happen to be passionate about is a computer game is sorta irrelevant. Replace "computer game" with "sports team" or "fly fishing" or "obscure pagan folklore" or whatever else, and you can get the same kind of passionate reactions.

    You have to care a lot about something to get upset about it. The fact that they happen to be passionate about SWTOR, doesn't make their lives "empty", it just means that they happen to have a passion different than someone else.

  2. #62
    While, I think the buying action bars thing is pretty stupid considering you end up with like 3 full bars by 50, but at least its not bad as Dreamlords was. The games cash shop had single pieces of armor for your dreamlord(stated armor you pretty much needed) for like 30 bucks. During the beta I kept telling em how the game would fail if they didn't make reasonable prices on stuff but they didn't listen and it closed shortly after.

    Anyone who is really interested in playing SWTOR I suggest paying for like 4 months(like the average price of a reg game), and play all the classes to find out what you enjoy, then use your 50s to farm credits and purchase any unlocks you will require when you quit subbing and get knocked down to preferred. And they are listening to feedback and are changing a few things: like 4 action bars for preferred players, and 6 char slots.

  3. #63
    Pit Lord philefluxx's Avatar
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    Shame on all of you for expecting more of EA. If you like the game sub. If you don't stop playing the game. The F2P model is about getting you to want to sub, not let you play the most expensive MMO in history for free. Geeeeezus......

    There are far better things to bitch about in regards to EA and SWTOR than their "f2p" model.

  4. #64
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by philefluxx View Post
    Shame on all of you for expecting more of EA. If you like the game sub. If you don't stop playing the game. The F2P model is about getting you to want to sub, not let you play the most expensive MMO in history for free. Geeeeezus......

    There are far better things to bitch about in regards to EA and SWTOR than their "f2p" model.
    Hmm...at first I thought you were joking. Then it just kept never getting to a punchline..so you must be serious. So let me clarify some things for you.

    1) The F2P model is not to encourage subscriptions. That's what trials are for. F2P is about making the world livelier for all players, creating extras to spend money on, and hoping you get more subs is an added benefit. Even going about it the completely wrong way you can see with their recent changes how they believe that as well.

    2) If people who didn't want to pay a subscription stopped playing the game, this game wouldn't exist in 6 months. It's the entire reason why it went F2P in the first place. So all the people who keep saying how much they love the game and damn anyone who things otherwise should really understand that their vocality and actions seek to reinforce behavior that would quickly destroy their game. At the end of the day it would be 1 thousand of you trying to toss your yearly income into the EA furnace hoping they won't shut the game down.

  5. #65
    Mechagnome LolretKJ's Avatar
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    I played SWTOR for about two months when it first came out. Rolled a Sniper. I facerolled PvP as well as the PvE questing all the way to 50.

    I joined a guild and with them we completed all the endgame PvE content in roughly 3 weeks of progression. So I decided I'd do more PvP with my guild. Even just three or four of us in a game of hutt ball could control the entire game.

    Needless to say, I had my full best in slot gear a month and a half after buying the game. It got boring pretty quick so I unsubbed.

    When SWTOR announced free to play I decided I'd log back in and give it another shot.

    BIG MISTAKE

    Why bioware, why?
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    Oh would you now? It truly is amazing how many heroic people we have wasting their time on internet.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    1) The F2P model is not to encourage subscriptions.
    In a freemium game, actually it is. Doubly so in SWTOR's case, as they like to constantly remind you of how much you're missing by not being a subscriber. The whole point of SWTOR's freemium model is to do everything they can to turn you into a subscriber. It serves as a secondary source of revenue as well, but the end-goal of all freemium games is to turn free players into subscribers, that's why the subscription still exists.

  7. #67
    Pit Lord philefluxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Hmm...at first I thought you were joking. Then it just kept never getting to a punchline..so you must be serious. So let me clarify some things for you.

    1) The F2P model is not to encourage subscriptions. That's what trials are for. F2P is a bout making the world livelier for all players, creating extras to spend money on, and hoping you get more subs is an added benefit. Even going about it the completely wrong way you can see with their recent changes how they believe that as well.

    2) If people who didn't want to pay a subscription stopped playing the game, this game wouldn't exist in 6 months. It's the entire reason why it went F2P in the first place. So all the people who keep saying how much they love the game and damn anyone who things otherwise should really understand that their vocality and actions seek to reinforce behavior that would quickly destroy their game. At the end of the day it would be 1 thousand of you trying to toss your yearly income into the EA furnace hoping they won't shut the game down.
    While you missed out on my sarcasm, Ill forgive you
    But in short, this is not a F2P model or game. No one should have ever expected the most expensive game in history to be a true F2P game.


    But Id like to address something I highlighted in your post

    In a perfect world we would like to think that F2P is about creating a better experience for the players, but that is a rouge. The driving force is to create blinders on the consumer in hopes to disrupt our ability to perform historical calculations over the span of 30 days. In other words, statistically people spend more than $15 per month in micro transactions even though they wouldn't normally commit to a flat sub fee of equal or lesser value.
    Last edited by philefluxx; 2012-12-10 at 07:41 PM.

  8. #68
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by philefluxx View Post
    While you missed out on my sarcasm, Ill forgive you


    But Id like to address something I highlighted in your post

    In a perfect world we would like to think that F2P is about creating a better experience for the players, but that is a rouge. The driving force is to create blinders on the consumer in hopes to disrupt our ability to perform historical calculations over the span of 30 days. In other words, statistically people spend more than $15 per month in micro transactions even though they wouldn't normally commit to a flat sub fee.
    I mean I thought it was sarcasm...but then it never let up. So awkward

    What we say is 'better experience' I just mean make the game not empty. I'm under no false illusions that they are trying to make everyone have a great time. They just don't want people giving them money to think there isn't a good time to be had.

    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    In a freemium game, actually it is. Doubly so in SWTOR's case, as they like to constantly remind you of how much you're missing by not being a subscriber. The whole point of SWTOR's freemium model is to do everything they can to turn you into a subscriber. It serves as a secondary source of revenue as well, but the end-goal of all freemium games is to turn free players into subscribers, that's why the subscription still exists.
    This really isn't true though. SWTOR might have bastardized it, but you can look at most other F2P games to see that. EA and Bioware still have the gall that they can hoodwink people into subscriptions, even though they stated the reason for F2P was because people didn't think the game was worth it.

    To be perfectly frank, EA is expecting their current small portion of subscribers and people wandering into the game to give them enough cash injections to surmount the subscriptions that no one else wants to pay. Reminding you is just brainwash advertising. It's not really new. Same reason they flash soda, candy, and popcorn all over the place in the movie intro animations. They want you thinking about it.

    In fact, the reason why they are pushing subscriptions in people's faces is not to actually get subscriptions. It's to prevent people from spending less money to get their game unlocked. A subscription paid before unlocks only gives you everything temporarily. Once you start buying unlocks, the subscription isn't really attractive anymore. This is why they advertise the subscription. Not for the actual subscription, but to prevent you from seeing things how they really are.

    it's smoke and mirrors.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by philefluxx View Post
    In a perfect world we would like to think that F2P is about creating a better experience for the players, but that is a rouge. The driving force is to create blinders on the consumer in hopes to disrupt our ability to perform historical calculations over the span of 30 days. In other words, statistically people spend more than $15 per month in micro transactions even though they wouldn't normally commit to a flat sub fee of equal or lesser value.
    That's not some subtle trickery though. That's an option the developer is affording the players (and where did you find those statistics anyways?).

    F2P is about lowering the barriers of entry for a game to expand its player reach and bring as many new players in as possible. Then it wants to turn them all into paying players (duh). How does it even "disrupt" the consumers ability to keep track of how much they spend on the game each month? >.>

  10. #70
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    How does it even "disrupt" the consumers ability to keep track of how much they spend on the game each month? >.>
    I think this particular point really means that with a subscription, the thought of spending more money or need to spend more money is basically non existent. You know in your mind that you have already paid for everything you get in this game. When they don't have that safety net, it is much easier to be consciously thinking about the need or desire to spend money to enjoy the game.

    For example. I started playing the Rift trial this weekend and my impressions of the game are pretty phenomenal. I'm already itching to buy the game and spend money to play it fully. The epic item in my inventory, which is given to all trial players (but can't be used ha) constantly reminds me that I need to spend money on this game. If I had the money, I would have already been suckered into giving it to Trion. Whether it is worth it or not is irrelevant. Once I have that purchase/subscription, I won't think about giving them money or even needing to sub for extra months because that purchase has my mind in a frame to only play the game.

    Until I have the cash to buy the game/sub, I'll always be thinking about the need to spend money in some capacity for me to fully enjoy the game. It is constantly looming over my head. For some people this is going to translate into purchasing a small pack of coins, then quickly running out of them trying to unlock something. Then they buy another pack of coins.

    Before they fully realize it, they've spent $50 on coins trying to unlock a handful of things when they could have subscribed the whole time.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Before they fully realize it, they've spent $50 on coins trying to unlock a handful of things when they could have subscribed the whole time.
    That's a conscious choice though. It's not as if BW or any other dev with a F2P game hides the charges under layers to obscure the true prices or anything. It's all very upfront. You buy X amount of cash shop currency, and spend it accordingly. If you don't budget properly, or don't keep track of your purchases, that's your problem, not the developers. They put the opportunity there, but they're not "tricking" you into spending more.

    Heck, they're actually actively trying to funnel you into a subscription rather than unlocks. If you look at all the little CC signs over things that are locked to free players, they are constantly reminding you that you get all those wonderful things with a simple subscription.

  12. #72
    The Patient
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    Personally I think EA/BW have both of those situations in mind (and probably others). They are trying to funnel you down the subscription route in game but if you don't sub and pay for unlocks and cosmetic rubbish with real money and end up getting so drawn into it that you up spending more than a sub, hey win win for EA/BW.

  13. #73
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    That's a conscious choice though. It's not as if BW or any other dev with a F2P game hides the charges under layers to obscure the true prices or anything. It's all very upfront. You buy X amount of cash shop currency, and spend it accordingly. If you don't budget properly, or don't keep track of your purchases, that's your problem, not the developers. They put the opportunity there, but they're not "tricking" you into spending more.
    You are missing the point. We can say "It's your choice" until the cows come home. No one said they are hiding it...but they are most definitely actively trying to get people to spend more. The way to spend more is not really focused on getting subscription numbers up. It's a byproduct, kinda like how Bolverk said it.
    Last edited by Kelimbror; 2012-12-10 at 08:47 PM.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by phred754 View Post
    This has been one of the worst games to come out in the past couple of years. The only thing that got them any player base was the star wars name. Give up and move on to a game that doesnt suck.
    hmm, I can think of a few that were worse. Just off the top of my head, AoC and Warhammer when they launched. And what is going to keep people around is not only improving what is there, which they are, but yeah, that Star Wars name.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-10 at 08:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    No other MMO ever has limited your action bars behind ingame money or RL money or other stupid things like it until SWTOR.

    Hell even in WOW's level 20 trial you could turn on all action bars if you wanted.

    All the f2p setup is a limited strick extended free trial nothing more.

    I though EQ1/2 and DCU's f2p setup was bad but hell at lease i get to raid on there if i wanted......

    I really wanted to like SWTOR and had hoped it would be fun. But EA just wanted to get its hands into the MMO market cause they though with the star wars name they where going to hit gold....we all see how that turned out.
    So you can only play 20 levels of 90 for free in WoW and that somehow compares to the f2p model in SWTOR? Really....Seriously...you are making this comparison...

    You need more than 4 action bars? Really?

    And while you might think it's restrictive on the surface, it actually incredibly easy to make money, especially at higher levels when you actually will need the credits to unlock stuff.

    Oh, and I'd agree that for the most part f2p is a limited free trial, but you can still buy the unlocks from the GTN for credits. You actually don't have to pay out any real life cash if you do not want to. That's pretty unrestrictive if you ask me. And while I'll throw out there that I think a lot of PLAYERS are overcharging for things on the GTN atm, it will drop in price for the simple reason they the products they are trying to sell won't sell.

    My personal opinion is that the credit cap will actually be beneficial to the f2p player in the long run because, at 50, 350k creds is like 2 days of doing dailies. Thus as prices continue to drop for things like warzone and ops passes, it will be easy for a f2p player to pretty much play the game completely for free. However, if you don't like to grind for credits, then we can't help you.

  15. #75
    The game's number one selling point when it was in beta was the personal story. They said they had all these stories ready to roll out on a regular basis. Now a year after release and they haven't had a single update to class stories. Makes you wonder what the hell they thought they were going to be doing after the game launched.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Ateup View Post
    The game's number one selling point when it was in beta was the personal story. They said they had all these stories ready to roll out on a regular basis. Now a year after release and they haven't had a single update to class stories. Makes you wonder what the hell they thought they were going to be doing after the game launched.
    Its actually worse than you say.

    When asked about the future of personal stories they described them as "avenger-eske group quests" or something like that.
    So, Makeb personal quest line might be just group planet quests. If Mekeb does have personal story lines, the planets after it might not be personal.
    Lv40 (Firefall) Dragonfly, Mammoth, Nighthawk, Arsenal, Tigerclaw
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  17. #77
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    Its actually worse than you say.

    When asked about the future of personal stories they described them as "avenger-eske group quests" or something like that.
    So, Makeb personal quest line might be just group planet quests. If Mekeb does have personal story lines, the planets after it might not be personal.
    They have to figure out some way to work around the fact that they don't want to pay voice actors millions of dollars again to keep recording dialogue. They probably have one guy tasked to separate every word of dialogue for each character in order to piecemeal sentences together like robots. This is only the beginning.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    This is only the beginning.
    I am really liking the way lotro did their story telling aspect.
    I feel like its a happy medium between cost effective and depth.

    Rifts chronicles (1-2 man dungeons) make for some awesome story telling too.

    Swtor's system is just completely unsustainable in the long run. (A concern several of us have expressed from the start)
    Lv40 (Firefall) Dragonfly, Mammoth, Nighthawk, Arsenal, Tigerclaw
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  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    Its actually worse than you say.

    When asked about the future of personal stories they described them as "avenger-eske group quests" or something like that.
    So, Makeb personal quest line might be just group planet quests. If Mekeb does have personal story lines, the planets after it might not be personal.
    I honestly don't expect much from them at this point but it has become obvious that they didn't have a single update to class stories ready to go. I don't want to say they lied because I don't feel like hunting down exact quotes but they certainly implied it.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Ateup View Post
    I don't want to say they lied because I don't feel like hunting down exact quotes but they certainly implied it.
    Well, if you felt like looking you would find that they didn't "lie" because they've moved the goal post. Its just been:
    Question: "Are you continuing the personal quest?"
    Answer: "The story quests on makeb are amazing"
    from the start.

    edit: Just so it wasn't clear. The answer doesn't match the question
    Last edited by Bardarian; 2012-12-10 at 09:21 PM.
    Lv40 (Firefall) Dragonfly, Mammoth, Nighthawk, Arsenal, Tigerclaw
    Lv50 (FF14) Paladin, Warrior (Swtor) Agent, Warrior, Knight, Inquisitor, Trooper, Consular, Smuggler, Hunter
    Lv60 (NWO) Rogue, Fighter, Wizard, Guardian, Cleric (Rift) Rogue
    Lv80/85 (GW2) Thief (WoW) Rogue, Mage, Priest, Hunter, Warlock, Warrior, Death Knight, Paladin, Druid, Shaman

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