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  1. #1

    So Blizz thinks PvP CC is fine. I beg to differ.

    I might be a little on the odd side, but I prefer doing random BGs over all. I don't want (and often can't) put up with the organizational stuff a premade or PvP guild entrails, nor the chitter chatter. (I've had my fair share of that in the past.)
    I have seen topics about CC pop up a few times with blue responses, and all they talk about is arenas and, with somewhat less importance, rated BGs. They deem CC to be just fine in those. I wouldn't know, since those are not for me. In random BGs however, if the enemies team's class composition is decently diverse (it usually is), I find myself in a cycle of stun->fear->spell lock->stun->graveyard annoyingly often. I do have my trinket, I use it (on cooldown), but it just won't do anything the 3 times I died with it on CD, and quite frankly: With that many ways of brainlessly locking you down, that do not share diminishing returns, even if I CAN use it, it will let me shove in that one insta heal so that I won't die right away, and some (often futile) attempt of making way.

    Yes, I do play a healer, and I certainly am spotted by the enemy teams as such. Therefore I certainly am a primary target for CC, which is perfectly okay. But in a random BG this has a caveat: "My friends", that try to get the heat off of me, are non-existent. It's random, people don't care or even notice in most cases.
    Which would be fine, I know what I am getting myself into. Yet encountering groups, where say 10 toons run up to the flag you defend with a reasonable amount of others of my team left over from the fight for taking it, and all they basically have to do is "chain mass fear my ass off", followed by a nice couple of blowbacks, some AE silences thrown in, garnished with some stuns, leaving you barely able to use 2-3 instant spells in like 20-30sec feels rather broken to me.

    Notice, that I am not talking about premade groups or sub-gropus coordinating these CC steam rolls - it's random people pushing their CC equally randomly timed. One might be inclined to say: Yeah, that's skill. They know how to use their CC. I would answer: No, not much skill knowing how to push a button three times in a row, and have mechanics sort out for you, that it causes maximum pain.

    I'd just LOVE to see PvP Resilience reduce CC durations. And that's from a Druid, who can put CC to good use at times as well. I'd be more than willing to let go of large parts of it, if it means I can actively take part in more fights longer.

    I've given the decision to talk about it here some good time, because I wanted to make as sure as possible, that it really wasn't just bad luck with my or the enemy teams, or just a matter of perception. But even after quite a long time, randomly stringed CC still feels way too powerful, while taking virtually no skill or coordination to accomplish in a very result-defining way. I'd really like to hear some other's opinions. But please keep it related to RANDOM BGs. Everything that has coordinated teams is not the topic of this posting. (And I also DO enjoy playing most of the time, I do not want to rage quit and have a bottle of whine. It just is something that bothers me, a lot, and I just want to see if this is a general issue, or just me.)

    Thanks for your time,
    Medium9
    Last edited by Medium9; 2012-12-08 at 03:57 AM.

  2. #2
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Blizzard has already stated that they try and balance the game around arenas, Rated bgs. They could care less about random bg heroes getting CC chained when they try to solo 3 people on their Arms Warrior and get mad when they realize they can't.

  3. #3
    Titan apepi's Avatar
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    Chilton said that they do not like instant cc and the designers who made them thought players would use them more defensively then offensively.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  4. #4
    Resilience reducing CC duration will just lead to weirdness where you won't know exactly what to expect. CC should just all share DR. That said, CC feels worse because damage is too fast, but I don't expect much of a change from Blizzard on that, their motto seems to be the faster play happens the better, and dam the quality of the experience.

    I feel bad for their significant others.

  5. #5
    Mechagnome -Raer-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medium9 View Post
    I do have my trinket, I use it (on cooldown)
    Medium9
    Don't use it on cooldown, learn when you REALLY need to get a heal off or can just eat a full CC. As for expecting peels and any kind of assistance in random BGs, don't. That's what Rated and organized PvP is for. CC is quite excessive at this point but this game is constantly evolving and changing; either adapt and overcome or find a game that doesn't change.

  6. #6
    Dreadlord Jawless Jones's Avatar
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    attaching CC reduction to resil would just mean healers would stack it and become nigh un-ccable when DR comes into effect

    also (and i think blizz said this) if CC reduction was attached to resil, then if someones pvp power was higher than their targets resil it would cause the person with lower resil to be cc'd for longer than a normal duration
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  7. #7
    Titan apepi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusRex View Post
    Resilience reducing CC duration will just lead to weirdness where you won't know exactly what to expect. CC should just all share DR. That said, CC feels worse because damage is too fast, but I don't expect much of a change from Blizzard on that, their motto seems to be the faster play happens the better, and dam the quality of the experience.

    I feel bad for their significant others.
    Bad idea, then stuns and fears would be overpowered to other ccs.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  8. #8
    I would just like it Blizzard got rid of ALL AoE CC. The long stuns on short cooldowns are a bit excessive as well but certainly the biggest offender are AOE CC.

  9. #9
    Being a healer in random BG's in my experience just leads to no one helping you, yet still complaining that you don't heal them ><

  10. #10
    Brewmaster Grievuuz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leyowin View Post
    Don't use it on cooldown, learn when you REALLY need to get a heal off or can just eat a full CC. As for expecting peels and any kind of assistance in random BGs, don't. That's what Rated and organized PvP is for. CC is quite excessive at this point but this game is constantly evolving and changing; either adapt and overcome or find a game that doesn't change.
    Pretty much what this guy said. I know you said that organized pvp wasn't for you, but the pvp metagame is not even remotely worth playing without organized play.
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  11. #11
    CC is fine, the problem is burst damage and burst healing.
    "PvE is like playing chess against an opponent that makes the same moves everytime"

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  12. #12
    Field Marshal Mohyoto's Avatar
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    Hi there,

    I have to agree that cc state at the moment is far from perfect and there issues that Blizz needs to address asap. The amount of instant cc is ridiculous!

    Having said this I still don’t see how this is a problem for a druid in a Random BGs environment. Currently druids have more tools to avoid cc both offensively and defensively than any other class. Shape shifting removes root effects, the amazing t1 talent displacer beast (30 sec cd) + mass entanglement and nature swiftness for instant defensive clones etc.

    Nevertheless it depends a lot on what spec you pla,y your gear and your pvp experience, so an armory link would be great.

    PS. I am not saying that there is any skill issue I just think that currently gear is, more than ever before, a critical factor for performance and since everyone is farming random Bgs to upgrade gear the chance if playing against people with way better gear than you is high, which might lead to frustration.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by AiAtola View Post
    CC is fine, the problem is burst damage and burst healing.
    cc is fine my ass,there is way to much cc in pvp period.watch some streams on arena junkies and you can see GOOD players tell you the same thing.there is more cc in the game now then ever before = to much.also there is too much burst damage and healing in pvp as well.add that all together and you get a big pile of shit that is wow pvp,and it is shit.just like i said it was going to be before mop started.wows glory days/prime years "BC" are long gone.

  14. #14
    The problem is every single melee having 6 second stuns on cooldowns that are less than half of the PvP trinket. It's not hard to go Stun --> other 8 second CC (sheep, fear, whatever) --> force trinket and then be able to do it again 45 seconds later. CCs have so short cooldowns that you can force someone into a 14+ second CC chain with only two abilities, which is more than fast enough to burst someone down even with defensive cooldowns.

  15. #15
    i suppose i cant call you a bracket guard if you dont even queue arenas.

    hm.

    carry on.
    Arena Master Elemental Shaman
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  16. #16
    Bloodsail Admiral nerdjames's Avatar
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    The big problem with random BGs is that you can't count on your team. Whether it's because they're new, unobservant, or just plain bad, you don't get much (if any) support. You mentioned that yourself. In a proper group scenario, your teammates would be able to alleviate some of the pressure both on you and themselves--there are a couple anti-CC utility abilities and better CC on their part reduces the damage they're taking and the control the other team can put out.

    There's really not a ton you can do in your case. When you can't count on your team, you have to see it as yourself vs. the entire enemy group (as a worst-case but possible scenario). That being the case, do everything you can to support yourself. This is largely based on watching for details. I apologize if anything's just a given for you, but I really have no way of knowing your play level.

    First thing is to use your focus. You should ideally bind focus target, but you can make a macro and click it too if that's how you roll. Anyway, if there's an enemy mage in the group, he'll probably notice you at some point and try to CC you. You don't want that, so focus him to watch for polymorph casts and shapeshift them. Same goes for shaman (hex) and paladins (though it's mostly holy that picks up repentance). Those are all 8 second CCs, and you really don't want to be stuck in one. You can also watch for cyclone casts, but you'll have to range, LoS, displacer, or interrupt (roar, bash, typhoon, NS clone) them to actually avoid them.

    Of course most CCs are instant, but again there is a way to at least mitigate it. A lot of these instant unskilled CCs have only a 20yd range, and I don't think any have more than 30. With that in mind, stay back from your group, near max range (40yd) if you can, and just be sure to watch for players running towards you. You can run away, LoS, or displacer to keep yourself free if they keep chasing you. Most players won't try too hard to CC when they could be doing damage. The other upside to this is that depending on your positioning, an enemy may have to run through a group of your team and suffer being tunneled if he wants to get to you.

    Lastly, use your cooldowns wisely. Oftentimes you do have to sit a CC or two. While you're that HoJ (if all else fails), notice what's happening and plan for it. If someone's going to die, maybe you have to trinket the blind that paladin's no doubt going to chain into you. Don't just throw your trinket away to anything though simply because it's available. Then again, maybe the guy dying is just undergeared and you can barely keep him alive anyway. Oh, now that enemy warrior's glowing red and dropped a skull banner--maybe now you should trinket, NS clone him, and go tree to keep up. It'll immune the inevitable repentances anyway.

    There's probably too much CC and the game could use a small tweak to medallion cooldowns or DR timers, but the best thing to do is try to learn to handle it the best you can. Also keep in mind, balance doesn't mean you always win. It's not as much fun for the damage-dealers when they can't land any CC and can't kill anyone through your unchecked healing. I hope some bit of these ramblings turned out to be helpful.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by AiAtola View Post
    CC is fine, the problem is burst damage and burst healing.
    CC is very much not fine, there's an insane ammount of AoE CC being thrown around that is pretty much fire and forget. There's no backdraft, no thought, no skill or anything else required in CC'ing a whole group especially if they have no other choice but to stand close to one another. It's fire and forget and does easily get chained by pure accident or luck on your opponents side.

    Hell I've seen it myself. First the holy Paladin blinded about 4-5 people, then the warrior feared them and just to round everything up I rooted all of them as they tried to run back to the mine lore in silvershard mine. The first two weren't coordinated CC. It was merely the holy paladin being under pressure using his CC. Then the warrior who was attacking on the the enemy healers used his AoE fear most likely to keep said healer from healing and I merely exploited the chance I was provided.

    There are other situations where it is extremly easy to either CC a whole bunch of people or get CC'd yourself simply because you HAVE to act in a certain pattern as the BG demands you do exactly that. And applying CC is by far easier then dodging it.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    Chilton said that they do not like instant cc and the designers who made them thought players would use them more defensively then offensively.
    if you use them more defensively and then more offensively, doesn't that include both? it doesn't address your premise, making the point illogical.

  19. #19
    As a paladin, if I choose repentance, I can chain cc someone through a full HoJ, a full repentance, and a full disorient. I've done it plenty of times, however there a catch: if they have their trinket up then that cc chain is shortened. If its a pally they can bubble. If they have dots on them two of those CCs won't work.

    Kind of a "if the stars align" cc combo but when it works its pretty glorious.

    That being said stuck on the other side of that with no trinket and bubble on cd is pretty aggravating.

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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Theholypally View Post
    As a paladin, if I choose repentance, I can chain cc someone through a full HoJ, a full repentance, and a full disorient. I've done it plenty of times, however there a catch: if they have their trinket up then that cc chain is shortened. If its a pally they can bubble. If they have dots on them two of those CCs won't work.

    Kind of a "if the stars align" cc combo but when it works its pretty glorious.

    That being said stuck on the other side of that with no trinket and bubble on cd is pretty aggravating.
    Thing is, all of the down sides hold true for about every single last CC. And saying that a trinket shortens your CC chain is laughable. I have exactly one real CC and it's on a 35 second cool down. Even with dots and trinker your CC chain lasts longer then mine, and your CC do have a shorter CD!

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